Lip Man 1

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jun 19, 2017 -> 06:21 PM) Not sure I'd say Avi was out of shape . He tore his labrum and came back rather quickly. Now all reports we have heard say he worked very hard to come back ahead of schedule. Let's think about how that happens. I would have to surmise that the key was strengthening the shoulder. How does one do that ? Most likely a lot of it is weight lifting. It's likely he strengthened that shoulder , but possibly bulked up too much through his upper body perhaps neglecting flexibility. He ended up losing mobility in the outfield and in his swing . I 'd say he was muscle bound more than out of shape. Once he lost the weight in his upper body he loosened up his swing and improved his speed and agility. Now granted we have also heard he improved his diet as he matured so yes, he was probably carrying some excess fat too. In conclusion it's possible the post injury Avi wanted to feel less vulnerable to injury and stronger so ate and bulked up to achieve that. The weight loss was just getting him back to pre injury conditioning. Some good points but I do remember reading stories in the mainstream media saying he was at over 240 pounds and was out of shape. One note to Greg by the way, please reread my post again, I never used the word grossly.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jun 19, 2017 -> 11:45 AM) 10 day DL is a huge factor. Except these guys haven't been out only 10 days, they've been out weeks and months. The 10 day DL isn't a factor at all in my opinion because of the length these guys have been out of action.

The last time I can recall the Sox being so badly gutted by injuries was 1973 when they used the DL if I remember right over 30 times. At least the timing is right if it has to happen at all since this is the start of a rebuild anyway. Even so it is ridiculous and frustrating as hell to me since many of the guys hurt could potentially have been used to upgrade trades and deals.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 18, 2017 -> 01:27 PM) I probably need professional help. Whenever I see the post desiring a loss I just want people to re-examine their thought process on the matter. It also angers me probably more than it should anger any human, considering all the more important issues in the world to get upset about. I don't like to see the Sox lose either HOWEVER given the parameters of the organization both self-imposed and because of things outside their control, I don't see anything else they could have done so I accept the reality of what is and hope for the best. Given the current situation, losing may (notice I said may) turn out to be the best in the long run. What I do know in fact and what history has shown the past 10 years is that the "stars and s***" approach to putting together a club wasn't working. I'm still interested to read any specifics suggestions that you think the Sox could have done otherwise.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 18, 2017 -> 12:43 PM) Now that's a great post. All the ridiculously bad things our front office has done and people give the front office the benefit of the doubt all the time. Avi is despised by many and they'll never get over it til he does this for 3 seasons and by then they'll say he's old and to dump him. You have to give them the benefit of the doubt be it fair or unfair because frankly they aren't going anyplace until ownership changes. So exactly what are fans supposed to do? Regarding Avi, to me, a half season of genuine excellence doesn't make up yet or erase the uncertainty of two and a half seasons of being out of shape, being a butcher in the outfield and not having a lot of good baseball instincts. I hope he can keep it going. If he can play well (not insanely well) next season I'll be converted...but not yet I'm afraid.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 17, 2017 -> 09:47 AM) https://www.statista.com/statistics/193408/...mlb-since-2006/ It's a drop in the bucket. The favorable lease deal, the fact that ticket revenues have gone from 38.2 to 29.54% of team revenues in less than a decade. If the White Sox were averaging 25,000 per game, they'd have generated an extra $3.5 million or so. But that's offset by the lower payroll...which will eventually be sliced down to virtually nothing. Note it didn't stop them from spending on LUIS Robert, for example, or Derek Holland, for that matter. The vaunted St. Louis Cardinals couldn't compete with the Sox, lost Heyward to the Cubs, Price to Boston...we're still a large market team in the minds of players and agents. Compare their attendance to ours and explain what happened in all those aforementioned situations. The average MLB team generates revenues around $314 million per club, with a lot of that now related to merchandising, parking, luxury suites, shared revenue, local and national tv contracts, MLB Advanced Media/MLB TV, etc. That's over $118 million more than the average NBA franchise, a number which are unprofitable. Only 2-3 MLB teams fell into that level of red ink in recent years. And when's the last time a franchise moved in MLB? Agreed. Good post. Attendance simply isn't the driving factor that it once was. Not saying it's not important but it is no longer 'life or death' for a franchise.

I voted Davidson because I think long term he can make a solid contribution to the team when they get good again. All the others are easily replaceable in my opinion and I'm not sold on A. Garcia yet.

QUOTE (kwill @ Jun 15, 2017 -> 08:19 PM) If we trade him I want an Andrew Miller Type return with 2 top 100 and a lottery ticket coming back. He is in the class of Chapman, Kimbrel, and Miller. You'll probably never get that because he doesn't have the track record of the players you named. The fact is that he could still be a flash-in-the-pan in my opinion. A half season doesn't a top return candidate make in my opinion.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 15, 2017 -> 05:20 PM) Who would have ever thought the Sox could win 3 of 4 from Baltimore in June? And only be seven under .500. I'll never be convinced we needed a rebuild in this age of parity. The Sox are trotting out there some of the worst starting pitchers imaginable and are only 7 under .500. They could easily have upgraded 2-3 positions in the offseason via free agency. We could have still had Sale and Eaton with this team that is featuring a rejuvenated Avi, a rejuvenated bullpen (for the most part; yes it's reeked at times) and a live bat in Davidson. Abreu is still good and Melky is having his best year as a White Sox. Catching also is acceptable with this current guy hitting about .250 and having a decent arm. You all can say what you want, but there's no reason to completely rebuild when you have as many veterans as the Sox. This division blows and it wouldn't have taken much of an effort to win it. That's my take. I'm sure El Rockin agrees at least. Or El Rockin likes the rebuild and likes this team as well, lol. I say it lovingly El Rockin. You like whatever the Sox do at all times. Go El Rockin! You are certainly entitled to your opinion. First off Baltimore is a .500 mediocre team with major pitching issues right now...we aren't talking about taking say three of four from Houston or Colorado or Los Angeles are we? Regarding your other points all I can offer in response is what history shows concerning the "stars and s***" approach to building a team...seven losing seasons out of the last 10, zero playoff appearances since 2008, haven't even had consecutive winning seasons since 2003-2006. The fact is this organization wasn't going to spend the amount of money needed to sign the 'two or three' players needed and frankly there were very few game changers available. It wasn't going to work...not with all the holes this team had / has on the roster right now. Let's simply accept the reality of things, embrace the rebuild, hope for better days in the future and stop wasting time and energy lamenting over 'what if.' Just my opinion.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jun 14, 2017 -> 10:55 PM) Are they taking Pelfrey out of the rotation? Why would he pitch tonight? Also, how many people are left? My power is out so can't watch Shields has been announced as the starter Sunday. That may have something to do with it.

Draft recap from White Sox.com noting their change in philosophy: http://m.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article/236...tters-in-draft/

Scouting report on the kid: With 10 of its pitchers appearing in the Majors since the turn of the century, Missouri State is known for producing mound talent. Yet the Bears' two best big leaguers have been position players Bill Mueller and Ryan Howard, and they should have their first ever selected in the first round in 2017. Burger went undrafted out of high school but has blossomed into a college star, finishing second in NCAA Division I with 21 home runs in 2016 and winning Missouri Valley Conference player of the year honors this spring, when he led the league in all three triple crown categories (.341-22-63) entering NCAA tournament play. Though he went homerless with the U.S. college national team during the summer, scouts still recognize Burger as one of the top power sources available in a Draft class short on college hitters. He generates his pop more with strength than bat speed, and there are some worries about an arm bar in his right-handed swing. He controls the strike zone well and makes reliable contact for a slugger, so he should hit for some average as well. While Burger isn't the most graceful player, one scout compared him to Hunter Pence for his ability to get the job done in less than pretty fashion. Despite his large frame, he has average speed out of the batter's box and decent range at third base. With his solid arm, reliable hands and admirable work ethic, he should be able to stay at the hot corner.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jun 12, 2017 -> 06:16 PM) Can always trade pitching if there's an excess. Not necessarily. A lot of clubs today are valuing position players very highly.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 12, 2017 -> 06:15 PM) As long as he can hit, I don't care where he plays EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!! Not a bad choice in my opinion. Big, big power potential. If he eventually moves to first, no worries... either Jose' becomes the DH or he's traded.

I didn't realize Jones is also 31. That surprised me.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jun 12, 2017 -> 01:39 PM) This. We need bats. Absolutely agree. I saw recently where only the Giants have a combined worse minor league record than the Sox. Their top three farm teams are something like 8-24 in June and Birmingham doesn't have much talent at all. They need hitters and position players. Plenty of pitchers in the system with potential but they have got to get talent that plays in the field everyday.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 12, 2017 -> 01:52 PM) Another tidbit from Law. Jim 3:45 Where would Luis Robert go in this draft class? Keith Law 3:45 Probably middle of the first round. \ I understand he hit a home run in his first game in the minors recently.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 11, 2017 -> 06:47 PM) Sox are lucky Q has good advanced stats. His old day stats reek. 2-7, ERA over 5. Awful. Poor Anderson is striking out too much and never walking. Actually 2-8.

All three runs Q allowed today again came with two out. I wonder what percentage of runs he's allowed this season have come with two out and he's ready to get out of an inning.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 11, 2017 -> 05:58 AM) What did he do to inspire two bombs off Felix Hernandez in one game? Can't answer that....maybe luck? Even a blind squirrel runs into an acorn every so often. From what I've been told by people who should know, Anderson had as much talent as anyone but was immature (which he has admitted) and loved the night life. Kenny Williams noticed that and also noticed that the guy who hung out the most with Anderson regarding said night life was Brandon McCarthy.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 11, 2017 -> 06:24 AM) http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/201...-deal-with-uber From everything I've ever read, the Sox set the parking rates and get 100% of the revenues. OK then, I appreciate clearing that up.

Mark Gonzales told me the story when the Sox were in Cleveland and instead of watching pregame video on that night's starting pitcher, Anderson and another guy were watching cartoons. Let's just say the other guys on the team noticed.

QUOTE (Tony @ Jun 10, 2017 -> 09:57 PM) So take a team like the Astros. 44-19, with a 12.5 game lead in the division right now. Why would they pay "maximum value" for Robertson right now? What's the rush? If you were in the Astros front office, or even a fan for that matter, would be you beating down the door to pay maximum value for a RP on another team when you hold a 12.5 game lead? It's the same argument for the Nats, who hold a 10.5 game lead. I'm not saying Robertson won't be moved, and of course I want to see the Sox FO get as much as they can for him. But there are circumstances surrounding the deal that make it a little more complicated than "Robertson is pitching great, they need to move him ASAP for a GREAT package..." I suspect the Astros now will be in the market more for a starting pitcher as opposed to a relief guy with Keuchel going down...but we'll see. Agree with the fact that the lead they have gives them time to figure things out same as Washington.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 10, 2017 -> 09:11 PM) Averaging in the low 20s is kind of lousy isn't it? Is it the price of a ticket, parking, concessions or the slow pace of baseball in 2017? Sox attendance has been going down every season from the previous one since the end of the 2006 season, except for two years if I remember correctly. Shouldn't be a surprise given the state of the team on the field for the past decade. Also I thought I read somewhere about the parking and that what is charged is not the decision of the Sox nor do they get a share of the parking money generated. I could be wrong about that, perhaps someone can clarify.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jun 10, 2017 -> 10:27 PM) Great minds think alike gregg. I understand the trade talks and tgecrebuulsvidea, but problem is everyone calling for the dismantling of the current team has no idea who or what we should get in return. All you hear is some vague mention of "prospects." Plus who do we have to replace the important pieces we may think should be traded? I seriously think contract extension for Frazier and Robertson would be a good move Just my opinion but it really doesn't matter for the next two seasons, who they replace the guys who are traded with. That's all part of the process that has been decided already for right or wrong by the powers that be. Any warm body will do. They are going to lose and lose an awful lot, may as well get used to it, make the best if it and get something good out of it (hopefully) at the end. Also on the topic of free agency, under current ownership the Sox have never, are never and will never spend the hundreds of millions of dollars to get the absolute top free agents out there. Plus this past off season's crop of free agents as well as next year's is not considered good overall. Even if you signed a bunch of them there were (are) very, very few difference makers...not worth what they were asking. And the Sox had and still have more holes in the lineup and on the roster than craters on the Moon. Even if they wanted to they couldn't possibly sign enough decent free agents to attempt to fill all the gaping issues. On another topic, the only bad thing tonight was that once again the starting pitcher couldn't go deep into the game (but at least they didn't use Petricka!