Lip Man 1

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 24, 2015 -> 03:19 PM) Maybe if Black Jack would have showed up in the playoffs things would have been different. It is funny how you rip loyalty but are loyal to any White Sox employee who speaks to you, and you totally disregard their failures. 1993 playoffs 0-2 10.00 ERA. Yeah Jack not your fault. Also when the Cubs made it to 2 in a row earlier this decade, the White Soc actually won more playoff games these years. Dick: And it's a fact McDowell and Fernandez were tipping their pitches according to Cito Gaston. They lost all four games in 93. Those guys were to good for that to happen without some help. And the Sox brain trust apparently never picked up on it. And also just to clue you in, Jack was just as hard on himself for his failures as he was to blame others. And to be clear one final time Dick, I rip loyalty when it impacts and interferes with the ultimate goal...winning baseball games, winning championships. A blind man can see that loyalty is so highly regarding by this organization that it's handicapping the franchise badly. Why do you think Ventura's returning? Because he's a great manager? LOL. But feel free to think otherwise, in five years time the Sox will be selling 'hope' to the masses because that's the only excuse they'll have left. Mark

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 24, 2015 -> 03:16 PM) The Marlins also have had 8 people manage their team since 2010 and 0 playoff appearances to show for it. They are about the polar opposite of the "loyalty" meme. Southside: Personally I'd rather be disloyal and win myself but that's just me. Loyalty is a wonderful thing especially in today's day and age but when loyalty stops accountability then you have just as big of an issue as having a revolving door no? Mark

And with that lack of offense yet again the Sox have guaranteed themselves another non-winning season. Best they could do would be to go 81-81 if they won out. And..that..isn't..happening. THAT'S THE 23RD TIME THE SOX HAVE ALLOWED AN OPPONENT THREE RUNS OR LESS...AND LOST! Wow! Bottom five guys in the lineup all hitting .250 or less. Mark

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 24, 2015 -> 02:57 PM) They had one step into the starting rotation, his name was Carlos Rodon. True, Rodon will be an outstanding pitcher. One who can make an impact every five days. My original statement stands, where is the Sox Kris Bryant an everyday player with that kind of impact ready to come up from the minor leagues? Mark

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Sep 24, 2015 -> 01:13 PM) Why do 2005 and 2008 have to be outliers? They still won 90 games in 2006, and that was with every starting pitcher performing significantly worse than the year before. Hell if Buehrle just has his usual season we would have made the playoffs that year. 2003 and 2004 they weren't too far off either (83 wins with your two best hitters out the whole year isn't too shabby, who knows what would have happened if Frank and Maggs were healthy). We were also a couple small things going our way from making the playoffs in 2010 and 2012. It's not like we're the Marlins who lose 90+ games every season except for the two completely random seasons when everything came together. The last few seasons have been rough but from 2000-2012 the White Sox were usually in playoff contention. Things certainly haven't been great, but it hasn't been quite as bad as you're making it seem. Omar: I agree with you... the problem is going back to the 50's the Sox are always "close" but never get it done. Something always jumps up and bites them in the ass. Again I can only restate history, they are the only one of the original 16 pre expansion franchises to have never made the playoffs in consecutive seasons. We're talking 115 years. Even the clownish Cubs have been able to pull that one off. What does that say about the Sox? Or do you (not necessarily you personally) start believing in "curses..." LOL. Like Jack McDowell told me once the Sox haven't won more often because they've had "bad players, bad managers and bad general managers." Hard to argue with his remarks. And it also says something when the brain-dead Marlins have won more World Series in their history than the Sox got to the World Series between 1919 and 2005. Mark

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 24, 2015 -> 12:13 PM) If Jeff Samardzija was Jake Arreitta, and Jake Areitta, Jeff Samardzija, Theo, who offered Shark $85 million, wouldn't be a genius, and Rick Hahn would be a boy wonder, and KW would have had nothing to do with the treade. But in typical White Sox fashion it didn't turn out for the Sox benefit did it? And there as Shakespeare once wrote "lies the rub..." LOL. Mark

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 24, 2015 -> 02:18 PM) Exactly. People are so focused on LaRoche vs. LHP, they completely ignore how horrible Abreu was vs. LHP. LaRoche is supposed to be bad, Abreu not. The team was just horrible at the start and it snowballed. Any time it seemed they might turn the corner, another clunker. It was a bad year. The Sox talent level isn't as bad as it is made out to be. Every team has holes. Mike Olt was the Cubs starting 3B on Opening Day. Not relevant because everyone knew Bryant would be up in 20 days and Olt was simply a temporary fill in. Last I looked the Sox don't have a Kris Bryant ready to step in someplace. Mark

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 24, 2015 -> 12:33 PM) I find this to be a personal attack, but that's OK, it's from someone who thinks Dye, Iguchi, Pods, AJ, Loaisa, Contreras, Garcia, Quentin, Abreu, Eaton, all became horrible after they put on a White Sox uniform, and it has to have something to do with Kenny Williams or Buddy Bell. The Sox have had some individual success stories no question. Now as far as the franchise, as far as sustaining success?? Far different story isn't it. Sorry if you consider it personal, that was not my intention, I only know what I was told and never mentioned anyone specifically. But I do find it interesting that you feel that way considering you brought up my mental health. Very interesting. I suggest we both drop this matter before things get out of hand. Mark

QUOTE (captain54 @ Sep 24, 2015 -> 12:28 PM) Since the Sox fade down the stretch in 2012, (where they went 4-11, from 9-19 till the end of the season).. a terrible offensive slump and starters ERA in the 5's was their doom.. Combined record to date over the course of roughly three seasons: 212-279…87 games under .500 Understood that the win pct. has gone up since the end of 2012, but comparing 2014 to 2015, we are only taking about 3 wins… the nightmarish 2013 record will skew this, but we have an average seasonal record over 3 seasons of roughly 70-92 Now I challenge anyone to name me one organization that puts this type of product on the field, and makes NO major changes concerning the powers that be that have engineered this mess over three seasons…. Underperforming players? (By the way, Rongey's favorite catch phrase).. Somepne in authority has put these under performers on the roster, on a consistent basis for a while now.. yet.. no responsibility.. no accountability.. Excellent, EXCELLENT post Captain. I was going to comment on something along these lines myself. Thank you for beating me to it and doing so in such a good way. The Sox probably WILL win more games than last season. The organization will use this as partly to justify bringing Ventura and his coaching staff back for another year. They'll tell what remaining fans are left, "we're making progress!!!!!" (and then because the coaching staff is the same start off with another unfocused, bad defensively, fundamentally and base running component to the season immediately putting them into another April hole.)) But I can't help think of the famous axiom "there are lies, damn lies and statistics..." - Mark Twain. Even though the Sox will have moved closer to the .500 mark, are they really better? Are they really closer to becoming what Rick Hahn himself stated that he wanted "to be a consistent, winning franchise." Look at the reality of this roster: DH, catcher, 3rd base are offensive black holes (in a league where power and run production is high because of the DH). Left and right field are below average offensively and again from a power / RBI position. The middle infield has very little power / run production capability. The Sox are going to lose at least one starting pitcher (Shark), maybe two if they trade Q and Danks is on his last legs. That's 60% of the rotation. The bullpen while better still has areas of concern and at least one key member of it is in his 30's. Defensively this team is poor, they lack fundamentals, can't steal bases, create runs. The minor leagues still aren't producing any type of "impact" major league caliber players on offense. The off season free agent class by all accounts from those posting on this site isn't great and the Sox will probably have less money to spend this year because it's logical to assume many of those who bought into the hype last off season and got season tickets won't be coming back. I'm at a loss to figure out a way the Sox can solve enough of these issues again in a single off season to realistically "contend" let alone win even a watered down post season spot in 2016. Yes, I'm deliberately taking the most negative approach because to me that's exactly what the Sox front office needs to do and work from there. That way if some things do actually go their way next year they might find themselves ahead of the curve in some areas. Yes mathematically 63 to 73 to let's say 76 win is "progress". But the reality is those are all still bad, losing records for a franchise that is becoming more and more irrelevant in their own market with every passing season. There hasn't been such a sustained run of poor baseball by this franchise (six losing years in nine) since the late 60's through the 70's. That's a long time ago. Conditions have changed since then, the competition is more intense...can this organization find their way out of the mess they themselves created? That's the million dollar question isn't it? Mark

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 24, 2015 -> 12:25 PM) At least you admit there is no logic to your statements today. A rather large amount of inaccuracies. Not totally, the advice I was given by some about certain individuals appears to be right on the money. I wrote this piece about my feelings towards the Sox on August 25th, my 60th birthday for Sox Net. If you missed it, you may want to read it: http://www.chicagonow.com/soxnet/2015/08/l...rthday-to-mark/ I stand by my comments and my feelings towards the White Sox. Mark

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 24, 2015 -> 11:43 AM) He signed it in March of 2013. They lost 99, then 89, and this year it should be fewer than that. Trending up. It really amazes me how many people have their favorite thing to do is to complain about something you have no control over. If it depresses you that much, I am sure professionals would tell you that you should probably spend your time doing something else. In the end, it's just a game. Dick: That's why we are called fans. Logic need not apply. All I'll say to your post which I consider rather naïve and a touch snarky is that the Sox have been a big part of my life for 55 seasons. I'll never turn my back on them. By the same token that doesn't mean I condone mediocrity or worse. I have every right to point out my feelings about them as do you. Last I looked that's what a message board is for. I appreciate the fact that you are trying to look out for my mental and psychological well being though. I'll be sure to let my doctor know how much you care. Now I understand some of the things I was told by some when I started writing for this site regarding some of the posters. Mark

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Sep 24, 2015 -> 09:54 AM) It worked just fine in 2005. Absolutely...and since then? It's pretty clear 2005 was an outlier (as was 2008) Rick Hahn himself said at his press conference the goal was to build "sustained success..." Now what that means is subject to interpretation but since the White Sox are the only one of the original 16 pre expansion MLB franchises to have never made the postseason in consecutive years, that would be a good place to start in my opinion regarding his comment. How close are the Sox to making the playoffs in back to back years? How close are they to even making the playoffs once? Ladies and gentleman of the jury, the prosecution rests. Mark

Logically thought out post and brings up some good points in my opinion. Mark

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 24, 2015 -> 09:52 AM) If Sale didn't want to be a White Sox, he wouldn't have signed the ridiculously team friendly contract he signed. I know doom and gloom is in. The funny thing is, players as a rule, seem to really enjoy playing for the White Sox. Why do you ignore that? When Sale signed that deal as I recall he said he did it because he wanted some security for himself and eventually his family. Also when Sale signed that deal a few years ago the Sox weren't in as bad a shape as they are right now in most areas save for financially. Things change don't they? I find it hard to imagine that Sale has to be happy about the overall state of the team the past few years and again I go back to his competitiveness and how that flares up from time to time. No athlete with that kind of fire wants to spend a career and not get the chance to showcase his talent on the biggest stage and I've been around pro athletes for almost 40 years so I do know a little something about it. Mark

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 24, 2015 -> 10:12 AM) Can every thread not turn into complaining about Jerry Reinsdorf? Even a completely unrelated thread about Sale and the strikeout thread has to turn into that. It gets old and ruins any discussion. Sorry my post offended you. JR was not mentioned at all in it, nor was it my intention to include him in the discussion. I was referring more towards Kenny Williams and Buddy Bell myself. Since you brought it up however he certainly is a factor in this decline which assuming the Sox go on to have a losing season again you have to go all the way back to the time period from 1968-1976 to find such a sustained stretch of bad baseball. At least in that time period the Sox 'excuse' was they didn't have any money...I can't find an excuse for this past nine years period that's comparable especially in this era of parity. Mark

On paper the moves the Sox made were well regarded by baseball people (not just fans) across the board. SOMETHING happens when those guys put on the uniform however and this has been happening for years...you can go all the way back to David Wells. There is something about the front office / culture of the franchise that is at least in some way responsible for this happening. Until that changes, until new people are brought in to the front office and individuals are held accountable for results by their jobs being on the line, you are going to see more of this stuff happening. The Sox have a historical baseline long enough now to tell me it's chronic under the individuals responsible for running the franchise. Just my thoughts. Mark

When discussing possible Sale trades everyone seems to leave out something. Namely what does Sale want? I've never heard or seen anything indicating he wants out...yet. But keep in mind when the season ends in two weeks he'll have five and a half years of service in the big leagues...and still won't have ever pitched in a post season game. That has got to be bothering a guy as competitive as he is. Sooner or later (probably sooner) if the Sox continue to look like buffoons on a baseball diamond Sale (or his agent) are going to cross a line and say "I'm leaving when my deal is up so trade me for what you can and get me out of here." Mark

Nice individually of course if he gets it, but I'm sure he'd trade a bunch of those strike outs for more consistency or at the very least a team that could allow him to showcase his talents in the post season. In two weeks Sale will have finished his fifth full major league season. He still hasn't pitched in a playoff game. And don't think that thought hasn't crossed his mind. Mark

56 years ago Tuesday night the Air Raid Sirens went off in Chicago as the White Sox won the pennant. Here is some of the 10th inning television postgame interviews with Lou Boudreau: http://www.chicagonow.com/soxnet/2015/09/t...in-the-pennant/ Mark

Carlton respected the game and he was damn good at it for a very long time. Mark

Zach Duke...yet another off season mistake. And they've got him for two more years...he'll be 35 then. Sox have now scored three runs or less in six of their last seven games... And now have crossed the 50% threshold for the year. 151 games played, 76 times three runs of less...50.3% That's pretty bad. Once again feel lousy for Q. Wouldn't blame him if he told his agent to get him the hell out of town this winter. And this is interesting: Chuck Garfien ‏@ChuckGarfien 2m2 minutes ago In Jose Quintana's 117 career starts, the White Sox have scored 0 runs 17 times, one run 27 times and two runs 27 times. That's a total of 71 times three runs or less for Q. Almost 61% of his starts. Mark

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Sep 22, 2015 -> 03:50 PM) Really? So the White Sox ruined Samardzija? I understand we've had some bad luck with other players coming here and having bad years, but that's mostly been on the position player side. We do pretty well with pitchers for the most part, Jeff being an obvious exception. No they didn't ruin him But there has been a lot of comments and talk about Shark not getting along with Cooper. Mark

QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Sep 22, 2015 -> 03:13 PM) A single late-season game assures jack squat. Any pitcher can have one really good game. Remember when Humber threw a perfect game? He's not pitching anywhere now. Agreed. However it does give teams the impression that if they can get Shark away from the clown college known as the White Sox, he could turn it around. The talent obviously is there. Mark

Have no idea what they'll be able to do. Free agent list isn't impressive in the areas they need. They'll probably have less money to work with given season tickets holders, many, won't be back. Still far to many black holes in the lineup. Starting pitching may be an issue as well if they trade Q. Yet they'll try to sell the fans on the notion of "contending" next year. Maybe the best thing they can do, maybe the only thing is to bring in an experienced manager who has won in the past and let him bring in his own coaching staff. Maybe they can get more out of what the Sox already have. That and removing Kenny completely from interfering. Mark

Nice to get some wins but this team has still scored three runs or less in five of their last six games (so what else is new?) Hadn't checked this in awhile so I took a look. Sox have played 150 games this year, in 75 of them (50%) they have scored three runs or less. Mark