SCCWS

QUOTE (knightni @ Jul 17, 2017 -> 12:24 PM) The current mlb team's success or lack-there-of, has zero to do with the success or failure of the rebuild. I don't see how trying to improve yourself through youth is a bad thing. The Sox have certainly had minimal success with less talented minor league guys and above average free agents. The 2000, 2005 and 2008 players - for the most part, never really had super talent. They just hit all cylinders at the right time. I don't agree. The current MLB team's lack of success can be blamed on either poor drafting/identifying talent and /or poor player development with positional players. Critical with this rebuild is that the FO identify quality young players in both trades and the draft. Second, they must develop them once they get them. Anderson is our only real positional roster player that the farm has produced that has a chance to be a building block in the rebuild. So far the results are still mixed. Sanchez and Saladino still border on utility type players.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 16, 2017 -> 05:08 PM) Holt is being added Holt pinch-hit in the 8th and got a hit and then played 3rd in the 9th. Boston has a pretty good deal in that their AAA park is less than an hour from Fenway. So they can move players around pretty easy when both teams are at home. Question now is will they go for Frazier or let Holt bridge them to Devers?

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 15, 2017 -> 11:57 PM) I haven't followed this tonight so I don't know if Frazier is still with the Sox. But Sox appear to have caught a break. The Boston and national media have picked up on the Frazier rumors and they are pretty much demanding the Red Sox pull the trigger and give up two prospects between 20 and 30 in the Boston organization for him. They've got the advanced stats rolling and Frazier would have 15 more hits if he played at Fenway this year thus would have a very good batting average, etc. Let them play the stat game all they want. This is good news for the Sox (if he hasn't been traded yet) cause the pressure is on the Bosox to acquire Frazier by fans and media. And as we all know, Mr. Frazier ain't all that. Not sure where you are getting your Boston media info but I have watched both Yankee games. The talk is mostly bridging the gap for Devers who now is at AAA. They have two young players, Marrero and Lin otating left and right. Lin is hitting over .300 and Brock Holt is getting close to returning. Last night they mentioned Frazier as another option out there but only in passing. But DD is quick with the trigger so maybe he won't be patient waiting for Holt and Devers.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 15, 2017 -> 09:44 PM) Devers 4-4 2b and HR in AAA debut DD may call him up tomorrow for their doubleheader.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 15, 2017 -> 12:48 PM) Are you just assuming this or did you read this rumor somewhere? .......................................... If Hahn took Panda he should be sent down to Charlotte.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 15, 2017 -> 12:15 PM) Guessing medicals would be with regards to the players the Sox acquire, but still, if one guy red flags, just pick another. Sounds like it is Frazier for Panda. Since Panda is coming off DL, there is medicals to clear up.......................................................

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 15, 2017 -> 12:25 AM) I'd like to see Renteria push another inning out of Shields and save the bullpen...not so much for the relievers that pitched tonight, but it carries over to the guys who will likely pitch tomorrow night and whom they need to protect. He was under 100 pitches and it was a good start for him (albeit with an ERA of 6). I would like to see some fan pass Renteria a note on Anderson and batting position because he can't be looking at stats. Tim is hitting .222 from the leadoff and .279 from the 7. So after the break, Renteria moves him back again to the leadoff and the kid goes 0 for. Are we sure this manager knows how to instill confidence in young players because he is going to be running a daycare by September.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jul 13, 2017 -> 02:54 PM) I'm not so certain about that. Some scouts recently said Jimenez could end up being better than Moncada. Cease has been rocketing up prospects lists and features two plus pitches already. If the changeup develops he has frontline potential. Moncada + Kopech + Basabe + Diaz is a little bit better, but not by miles, than Jimenez + Cease + Rose + Flete I'd say we got 85-90% of the value we received for Sale, which is all we could ever hope for. I disagree. I think Sale should have brought the better package and I think he did. I posted that Q should bring 60-75% of Sale. If Moncada and Kopech were top # 1 and 12 prospects in MLB and Jimenez and Cease are 8 and 63 that is a decent drop-off. In addition, Moncada had played AA and had already had a brief shot at the majors. I hoped we could get a 12-15 and a 25-30. I assume the 3 and 4 players in each deal are a wash. Regardless, I think Hahn got the best package he could and we move on to Robertson.

Just a thought. It looks like the Sox have not announced their rotation for the weekend. I wonder how Hahn feels about sending Q out again for another start vs the Mariners. He could add to his value, lower it, or worst case get hurt. The game is at the Cell so that helps. But I think the pressure will switch from the trade partners to Hahn if he doesn't pull the trigger today. If he thinks the offers are not what he wants then he has to wait and keep pitching him until someone gets desperate or until the offseason.

QUOTE (FT35 @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 10:40 AM) It doesn't bother me what fans think about Quintana. They don't like him because he's not a big name or a flashy player. Every GM in the league is well aware of Q's value and will pony-up accordingly. Honestly, the GMs know better in this case. You are correct. In fact, I saw some Yankee fans posting Q is a #3 starter if added. But also remember, from a GM standpoint, because he is not a big name or flashy, he will win games but probably not give the box office an added boost. So Q's value is results in the win column but probably not at the box office which may affect the return he brings back. Sale was used immediately by Boston as a big advertising tool. If somebody takes Verlander, he will also sell tickets for a while. A GM primarily wants to get to the World Series but if he sells tickets /merchandise , that is a bonus.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 12, 2017 -> 01:46 AM) Dude, your shtick is old. Either contribute or get lost. In the flow of the previous posts, his post did not seem like "shtick" Seems inappropriate to teller a veteran poster to get lost.

QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Jul 10, 2017 -> 10:41 PM) Of course all players have weaknesses. I knew Moncada, like all prospects, was a risk. I don't believe any prospect is a sure thing, including Moncada. Prospects are suspects until they prove themselves over time at the big league level. Two weaknesses that have plagued the Sox for a long time now are poor defense and problems making contact. It's too bad these happen to be the weaknesses of the latest top Sox prospect. That's why Yolmer Sanchez is a breath of fresh air because he can actually play plus defense at 2B and it looks like he can at least hold his own against major league pitching. I'm just not as anxious as some to anoint Moncada the Sox second baseman until he proves he can play good defense and hit major league pitching. Rebuilding is fraught with risks. It's not a slam dunk that a rebuild is going to go as planned. Teams can be mired in mediocrity for decades if things don't go as planned. If Moncada doesn't live up to the lofty expectations the Sox have for him, their rebuild will be in big trouble. I have hopes that he turns out to be a superstar and is a cornerstone of the White Sox for years to come. But I'm not going to pretend that he's a sure thing either. I think Moncada will always be a average to below average infielder. Whether he is moved to the outfield because of that remains to be seen. So the issue is his power numbers and speed on the bases versus his KO rate. If the SO rate improves, you live w the defense becuase the offense could be very high production. But at the present time in AAA, he is still trying to improve the KO rate.

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Jul 10, 2017 -> 07:43 AM) Yes, because money is no object to Joe Ricketts and Co., yuge investment in building baseball's version of Disneyworld on the North side, Epstein's proven history of being a big spender, cub fans clamoring for a 're-peat". Add is Lester and Arrieta's inconsistency and you can almost bet the cubs will spend big on pitching if the opportunity presents and make a trade or two...at least one big name starter...perhaps Verlander, Sonny Gray or Archer. Rays may be in a tough position. They are right in wildcard position so I doubt they unload Archer unless they get young ML talent back.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 10, 2017 -> 07:39 AM) Why would a team acquiring Sale want to trade a proven OF like Bette or Bradley? That completely defeats the purpose of acquiring Chris in the first place. And honestly, Betts is probably considered a more valuable trade piece by most baseball enthusiasts in the first place. Furthermore, why would we want to trade Sale for a guy with only 4 years of control when we were just starting our rebuild? How does that lead to sustainable success? You can feel the package is light, but we got back arguably the highest upside positional & pitching prospects in the minors. We have control over them for 6+ years when they finally reach the majors, which obviously better aligns with our projected competitive window. I think your expectations were simply unrealistic from the get go and that you weren't approaching this trade from a rebuilding perspective. But I understand the poster's issue. Unfortunately the white Sox farm and ML roster was so thin position wise, they had to trade Sale for prospects as you mention. But if they had some solid young talent in AA or AAA, then they could have looked for ML ready talent to supplement it w a Sale trade. I agree that Betts may have been a stretch. I also think Moncada, Bradley and Benintendi all had pros and cons at the time of the trade. Hahn went with what he thought was the best if indeed all 3 were in the mix. Bradley is having a very good year and Benintendi is having a very good rookie season. Moncada may have the higher ceiilng but he is still developing at AAA while working on his "cons". Time will tell l

QUOTE (daggins @ Jul 8, 2017 -> 07:04 AM) Seems like the 2nd wildcard is gumming up the works, so to speak. Right now, only three AL teams are definitely selling, and most of the NL teams that are in sell mode don't have much to trade. I'll say first major trade is Ryan Madson to the Red Sox. Dombrowski is aggressive and they could use a set-up man for Kimbrel. Joe Kelly has been outstanding as their RH set-up guy for Kimbrel. I think Boston may add a lefty

As of August 1st, the White Sox will be renamed the White Knights with the arrival of 12 players from Charlotte. White Knights gear will be available till the end of the season. The increase in merchandise revenue will be given to the Charlotte AAA franchise which will be forced to cancel the rest of their season due to lack of players.

There are posters who think Hahn is going to gut this team by the end of July. I really doubt that. I think he will make a big splash with either Q and/or Roberston as well as 1 reliever and Melky and/or Frazier. If he unloaded numerous players from the roster, he would have to turn to Charlotte which is a very mediocre AAA team. That in turn would require backfilling from AA etc. In essence, by wholesale dumping as the ML level, you promote young players at all levels who are not ready. I think Hahn will make a few deals this month to add young prospects from teams that are desperate. But he will wait until the offseason to unload the rest of the deadwood.

QUOTE (striker @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 10:15 AM) Porcello is struggling, Price is doing well but still could be a concern. The entire rest of their lineup is pretty inexpensive. Quintana helps stabilize their rotation, improves their playoff rotation, is priced very well for the next 3.5 years (key for a team trying to stay under the luxury tax). The Red Sox have 4 lefties and Porcello in their rotation. They are not going to trade for Q. They probably will add a #5 righty for insurance. They also would probably not trade Devers in any deal since they cannot find an answer at 3rd.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jul 5, 2017 -> 07:01 AM) Existing in a big market SHOULD make you a big market team. That's a no-brainer, and only an irrational angry mindset would not allow one to reach this easy conclusion. It's the embarrassingly ineffective management of the past several decades that has precluded this organization from taking advantage of the great market that is Chicago. Although a little dated, I think this article summarizes the market pretty well. It classifies the White Sox as the highest rated mid-market. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/961412-...-by-market-size

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Jul 2, 2017 -> 11:09 PM) The commonly held belief that Hahn fleeced Rizzo with the Eaton trade plays in the background and might impact future trade talks between them. You know, the old fool me once...In addition the Yankees, Red Six and a few other teams can offer plenty of mid level prospects if that is all Rizzo will put on the table. The Red Sox would not want Robertson. They have Kimbrel . I thought they would have interest in Jones before he got hurt as a set-up but Joe kelly has emerged in that role.

Hopefully when he shows he is better than AAA competition. He has been very average lately and last i saw his SO rate was over 30%. After his miserable showing in Boston last fall, hopefully our FO waits until he is playing well in AAA. This is his first year at this level and he is having his ups and downs like many young players. This is a wasted year so we certainly don't want to screw up our prized young player.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 1, 2017 -> 06:20 AM) Bwar has him at negative defensive value but still the 104th most valuable player in baseball this year. 50/58 catchers with 150+ plate appearances at defense at fangraphs. 56/58 in DRS. Of course, Avila has been worth 2.5 war already this year. Figures. Fwar, Bwar blahhhhh. keep it simple. The weather in Atlanta is a hell of a lot better than Chicago. So of course Flowers's bat would bloom down south.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jun 28, 2017 -> 07:11 PM) I didn't say exactly the same as sale, but rather a relatively similar to of package as sale and eaton. Talks have been going on long enough to the point where haha will make a move when he knows he is being offered what the organization considers quintana's to value to be. A 28 year old lefty on a very reasonable contact that has been very healthy shouldn't come cheap. Sale returned two top 15 prospects in moncada and kopech. Nobody will come close to offering that same level of talent for quintana, but I also think he is worth more than you are expecting. You seem confused. You posted: Sox won't deal Quintana for less than a package similar to what they got in exchange for Adam Eaton/Chris Sale, especially considering the lack of other good options on the market. then you posted: I didn't say exactly the same as sale, but rather a relatively similar to of package as sale and eaton then you posted Sale returned two top 15 prospects in moncada and kopech. Nobody will come close to offering that same level of talent for quintana I agree with your last statement which is how I responded to the first one you posted. I think they will get about 60-75% of Moncada/Kopech. So maybe a 12-15 pick and a 20-25 + a 50-75.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jun 28, 2017 -> 05:22 PM) Sox won't deal Quintana for less than a package similar to what they got in exchange for Adam Eaton/Chris Sale, especially considering the lack of other good options on the market. The Braves system is totally loaded to the point where they are one of the few clubs that could trade for Q and not have it gut their farm. Newcomb, Allard, Soroka, Wright, Anderson, Gohara, Toussaint, Fried, Wentz, Muller, Minter, Morris etc. is crazy pitching depth from which they can deal Albies, Maitan, Acuna, Pache, Demeritte, Riley, Waters, etc. There is a nice 3-4 player deal to be made here I hope you are right but I don't agree. Comparing him to Sale( contracts aside) is wrong. I think Sale/Kershaw are at a different level than everyone else. Q is a Top 20 pitcher and may even be a top 10-15. But he is having an up and down year. My gut tells me the best offer for Q will be 60-75% of what they got for Sale. Now Hahn may know that and take it or decide Q is of more value staying as the White Sox ace.

Joe Maddon