Tony

And I'm telling you if Fields goes out and throws 3 TD's with no INT's on the way to a Bears victory over the Packers, it will have more impact that say Week 3 of this season. I'm not arguing with the fact that his entire body of work should be judged, I'm saying it's a human element of recency bias and having a big W to end the year going into the offseason will play a role. The same goes for if he has an absolute stinker of a game, as I mentioned previously in this thread

Right or wrong, Sunday will probably have a rather significant impact on the decision. Additionally, I trust Poles will do his due diligence either way, and if he gets bowled over with an offer, it could also change his course. We'll see.

Have a feeling we're gonna find out

You are acting as if front offices all hold the same opinion on players. I can almost guarantee you there is a GM out there that believes Caleb Williams will be as good at Patrick Mahomes, and there is another GM in the league that wouldn’t draft Williams if he fell to pick No. 10. If a GM feels like a franchise changing QB is in this years draft, and the 1st overall pick is available, they will do what is needed to obtain their new QB superstar

Because someone else could decide to move up and take the Bears pick, and if New England is enamored with Caleb Williams, it no longer is about the Bears not wanting to draft a QB, it’s about another team that feels the same way about Williams that New England does

I don't really think any of this is true. The Bears are in a very unique position as a possible 8 win team and owning the No.1 overall pick. In most cases, the team holding the No. 1 pick needs players it can build around and will take that franchise-altering player at No. 1. But, we obviously have history in last year and the absolute haul the Bears got back. They didn't get 1 first rounder for moving back, they got two. The No. 9 pick, and what turned out to be the 1st overall in 2024, two additional 2nd rounders, and DJ Moore, who is an unquestionable No. 1 WR and is 26. A years back, the 49ers, who are considered the class of the NFL at this point, decided to move from No. 12 to No. 3 to take Trey Lance, and sent additional first and third rounders the next year, as well as ANOTHER first the following year. When the Rams decided to trade up to No. 1 and take Goff, they traded their first rounder that year (No. 15), two seconds, two thirds, and a first round pick the following year. Additionally, ESPN just put out an article yesterday that talked to different GM's around the league: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39219170/chicago-bears-quarterback-justin-fields-caleb-williams-drake-maye-no-1-pick-2024-nfl-draft So...yeah.

When you're right...you're right.

Possibly, but if Carolina took Stroud instead of Young, which wasn’t out of the question, you aren’t saying this. The point is if a FO feels like there is a QB that is absolutely can’t miss, they’ll do what they need to do to get them. If the Pats think Caleb Williams is generational, they aren’t going to let an extra 2nd rounder get in the way of that (within reason)

Here is the other thing. We’ve seen 3 years of Fields, and at this point the momentum certainly seems like it’s going toward Fields coming back. You would think the decision is made. However, human emotion is real and there is a momentum to things. This shouldn’t be the case, but the Packer game is going to mean way more than it should. Say the Bears lose 35-0, Fields throws 3 picks and is like 12-32 passing. The entire discussion will flip on its head, and I think it could impact the decision Poles makes

Do you feel that Caleb Williams or Drake Maye will put up a better season in 2024 than Fields did in 2023? Actually asking.

Think from an overall vibe standpoint (how much that really means is up to you) it’s gonna mean something, given it’s the Pack. Beat the piss out of them

Poles has done a remarkable job in two years. You look at where the roster was on this date in 2021, to where it is now. He took it on the chin in Year 1, ate all that dead money, and secured the No. 1 pick. Turned it into an absolute gold mine, and the arrow for this team is objectively pointing way up for the future. He has an incredibly tough choice to make this offseason, a few choices really..but if he hits the right notes, he’s done something really impressive.

Yes, with the Cards win in Philly. It’s locked

I think the biggest knock of Flus at this point was it was incredibly clear he didn’t have this team ready to play coming out of the pre-season. ESPN 1000 is the flagship radio station of the Bears and multiple hosts took a lot of abuse from meatball Bears fans when they would talk about being at camp every day…and things not looking right. From Claypool, to Fields, to the overall effort…it just wasn’t there. And that’s exactly what we saw in the first 5,6 weeks of the season. On the flip side, there is a real chance they end the season going 6-2, and in both L’s they had 4th quarter leads. I want the coaching staff to change, but if they end the year going 6-2 in their last 8 games, I’m not going to be outraged if he’s back.

They certainly aren’t going to get as lucky as they did this year with nabbing the 1st overall again, but there is at least an argument you can make that if they once again trade out of No. 1 overall this year, the could still end up with a Top 7 pick next year from someone else (or s%*# goes sideways next year and the Bears pick is in the Top 5-7) and they take a QB in that draft. I think the trade market will dictate some of this, and while I’m sure Poles has a pretty good idea at this point what direction he wants to go at QB, he still has to find a trade partner. I believe he thinks he’ll get his 2nd rounder back that he traded to Washington by getting rid of Fields, but if only someone like Atlanta is at the table and they are offering a 5th…could make things more complicated

I don’t think that’s the case at all. Now, if they bring in a new QB, should it be with a new HC and OC? Absolutely, but that’s not how the Bears have operated, basically ever. But I don’t think it’s a slam dunk by any means Fields is back. He may be, but I don’t think this tells us much about the Fields situation.

There is literally zero history of Jerry Reinsdorf ever doing that. 2005 wasn’t built as a title contending team. Nice collection of players and literally everything went right. Since 2005? They have 3 playoff wins, 2 division titles, 1 wild card appearance and 0 playoff series wins. All of this is moving deck chairs until he dies. That statement leads directly to ending the conversation, so it’s not very enjoyable to have and if everyone held that position this message board would be a ghost town…but it’s the simple reality. Even moreso when you have ownership groups like the Dodgers, Mets, Braves, Rangers etc….Jerry plays by his rules, and we suffer as a result.

This isn't really about Caleb Williams. It's about trying to predict what the next 3-4 seasons look like and how the roster is constructed. Without rehashing a lot of things that have already been said, it's a lot harder to build a roster with a $45 million dollar QB in Fields when he hasn't shown enough in his 3 years.

I get what you’re saying, and you’re not wrong. And it’s a symptom of them not shelling out big money for FA’s so they spend on lower tier guys, but for the reasons I stated above, I don’t have a problem with it this offseason given where the team is and the tremendous amount of work Getz has to do to totally re-do this team (and the chances are incredibly high he can’t pull it off)

On what? Say they spent that on one player. Who is it going to? And what difference is that player going to make over the next 2-3 years? Are they the difference between 72 and 75 wins? For what? This team is SO far away, I just can’t get too upset over a move like this. It's clear what Getz is trying to do this offseason. Flush out the clubhouse, change the culture and in the case of MM, provide a veteran catcher that can be an anchor for a pitching staff, specifically one without a ton of ML experience. Is it a move that will win them more games in 2024? Good chance he has a negative WAR, but I believe there will positives that he provides internally. At least that’s the hope. And given there is literally zero chance this team competes this year, or probably next year, I don’t think it’s a terrible strategy from Getz

They may finish with 7 wins and still have 3 losses on their record where they had an over 90% win percentage in the 2nd half of those games. I said in the offseason I expected this team to be right in the hunt or make the wild card round, as there is usually a “worst to first” team in the NFL each season…and that’s exactly what should have happened. So yes, the staff needs to change. I’m a fan of what Poles has done these last two years as a whole, but he missed on the HC.

Actually a little surprised at the response here. The Sox are going to be terrible this year, obviously. Signing Ohtani wouldn’t have changed that. We heard rumblings the last 4 years the pitching staff hated Grandal, there wasn’t trust, etc. As someone else mentioned, good chance Cease is moved for young pitching, some of which may see ML time in 2024. Additionally, a lack of any sort of leadership or preparation was cited by numerous players who departed the Sox organization over the last year. Maldonado seems incredibly well liked by teammates and is by all accounts is very well-prepared and can comfort a pitching staff. Hate sounding like a meatball, but those are traits not measured by FanGraphs and do hold value in MLB. If this was stopping another signing or blocking a key prospect who was ready, I’d light a pitchfork. But I don’t think this is a terrible use of resources from Getz, after understanding what has gone on the last few years.

By “still” you mean since 2009, right?

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