Tony

Yes, with the Cards win in Philly. It’s locked

I think the biggest knock of Flus at this point was it was incredibly clear he didn’t have this team ready to play coming out of the pre-season. ESPN 1000 is the flagship radio station of the Bears and multiple hosts took a lot of abuse from meatball Bears fans when they would talk about being at camp every day…and things not looking right. From Claypool, to Fields, to the overall effort…it just wasn’t there. And that’s exactly what we saw in the first 5,6 weeks of the season. On the flip side, there is a real chance they end the season going 6-2, and in both L’s they had 4th quarter leads. I want the coaching staff to change, but if they end the year going 6-2 in their last 8 games, I’m not going to be outraged if he’s back.

They certainly aren’t going to get as lucky as they did this year with nabbing the 1st overall again, but there is at least an argument you can make that if they once again trade out of No. 1 overall this year, the could still end up with a Top 7 pick next year from someone else (or s%*# goes sideways next year and the Bears pick is in the Top 5-7) and they take a QB in that draft. I think the trade market will dictate some of this, and while I’m sure Poles has a pretty good idea at this point what direction he wants to go at QB, he still has to find a trade partner. I believe he thinks he’ll get his 2nd rounder back that he traded to Washington by getting rid of Fields, but if only someone like Atlanta is at the table and they are offering a 5th…could make things more complicated

I don’t think that’s the case at all. Now, if they bring in a new QB, should it be with a new HC and OC? Absolutely, but that’s not how the Bears have operated, basically ever. But I don’t think it’s a slam dunk by any means Fields is back. He may be, but I don’t think this tells us much about the Fields situation.

There is literally zero history of Jerry Reinsdorf ever doing that. 2005 wasn’t built as a title contending team. Nice collection of players and literally everything went right. Since 2005? They have 3 playoff wins, 2 division titles, 1 wild card appearance and 0 playoff series wins. All of this is moving deck chairs until he dies. That statement leads directly to ending the conversation, so it’s not very enjoyable to have and if everyone held that position this message board would be a ghost town…but it’s the simple reality. Even moreso when you have ownership groups like the Dodgers, Mets, Braves, Rangers etc….Jerry plays by his rules, and we suffer as a result.

This isn't really about Caleb Williams. It's about trying to predict what the next 3-4 seasons look like and how the roster is constructed. Without rehashing a lot of things that have already been said, it's a lot harder to build a roster with a $45 million dollar QB in Fields when he hasn't shown enough in his 3 years.

I get what you’re saying, and you’re not wrong. And it’s a symptom of them not shelling out big money for FA’s so they spend on lower tier guys, but for the reasons I stated above, I don’t have a problem with it this offseason given where the team is and the tremendous amount of work Getz has to do to totally re-do this team (and the chances are incredibly high he can’t pull it off)

On what? Say they spent that on one player. Who is it going to? And what difference is that player going to make over the next 2-3 years? Are they the difference between 72 and 75 wins? For what? This team is SO far away, I just can’t get too upset over a move like this. It's clear what Getz is trying to do this offseason. Flush out the clubhouse, change the culture and in the case of MM, provide a veteran catcher that can be an anchor for a pitching staff, specifically one without a ton of ML experience. Is it a move that will win them more games in 2024? Good chance he has a negative WAR, but I believe there will positives that he provides internally. At least that’s the hope. And given there is literally zero chance this team competes this year, or probably next year, I don’t think it’s a terrible strategy from Getz

They may finish with 7 wins and still have 3 losses on their record where they had an over 90% win percentage in the 2nd half of those games. I said in the offseason I expected this team to be right in the hunt or make the wild card round, as there is usually a “worst to first” team in the NFL each season…and that’s exactly what should have happened. So yes, the staff needs to change. I’m a fan of what Poles has done these last two years as a whole, but he missed on the HC.

Actually a little surprised at the response here. The Sox are going to be terrible this year, obviously. Signing Ohtani wouldn’t have changed that. We heard rumblings the last 4 years the pitching staff hated Grandal, there wasn’t trust, etc. As someone else mentioned, good chance Cease is moved for young pitching, some of which may see ML time in 2024. Additionally, a lack of any sort of leadership or preparation was cited by numerous players who departed the Sox organization over the last year. Maldonado seems incredibly well liked by teammates and is by all accounts is very well-prepared and can comfort a pitching staff. Hate sounding like a meatball, but those are traits not measured by FanGraphs and do hold value in MLB. If this was stopping another signing or blocking a key prospect who was ready, I’d light a pitchfork. But I don’t think this is a terrible use of resources from Getz, after understanding what has gone on the last few years.

By “still” you mean since 2009, right?

…

I agree

Wasn’t even about field position, there were like 3 seconds left.

This isn’t a defense of Fields, but I really do believe in the idea when they were trying to lose last year..that starts to impact players. You don’t learn what it means to play in those crunch time games. It’s on Fields, but I think it plays a role

That’s the silver lining of this game, this SHOULD seal it

Its Mark Sanchez, and he’s absolutely brutal

Where? I’ve been on this board before the 2005 season, and in all my time, I’ve seen next to no negative comments toward that team. Now, if discussing how that core group didn’t make the playoffs in 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007 and it’s now evident it was simply a “right place, right time” kind of season, that is definitely discussed here, but I think that’s more factual evidence than negative. 2005 is why every single Sox fan on this site is still here. The hope we get to see another one of those seasons. It was an incredible ride. I will absolutely have those memories for the rest of my life. But in 2023, it’s far from blasphemous to say that team was a “one year wonder” more than some powerhouse the brain trust at 35th and Shields built. It was a very good team. The 2006 team was also very good. But as quick as they arrived, it was over. That’s not really a debate, just what happened

I'm starting to come around to trading Fields, and a lot has to do with resetting the clock. As many have noted, and this article only briefly touches on it, it's VERY difficult in todays NFL to win with a franchise QB on his second deal. He not only has to be "the guy" but even then, we're seeing it with Mahomes in KC right now, it's very difficult to build a team around a contract north of 50 mil or whatever the numbers are. They actually had the right idea with the team they built around Mitch, he just wasn't the right guy.

So the key figure in this is Jerry. In reading the article you posted, on the topic of how insanely bad not only the organization is, but specifically the minor league system and depth…Jerry decided the best man to run the entire organization was the teams minor league director the last 7 years. Jerry has also made the decision to continue to use TLR as an advisor for “baseball matters.” I think it’s perfectly reasonable for fans to call into question the individuals Jerry surrounds himself with, given their historically bad track record, no?

Alright Doc, tell me this. What historical evidence tells us we should assume the Sox are right? Why should we assume the best?

Yes, the benefit of the doubt should ALWAYS go to the Sox, no question. I mean, look at how successful Katz and this organization have been as of late. They’re gonna need a bigger trophy case soon.

I can absolutely get on board with drafting a QB at No. 1 overall. The Bears FO has to be convinced Maye or Williams can do things better than Fields can do at an NFL level, simple as that. I'm not taking a QB No. 1 overall and trading Fields simply to reset the clock. Even as a 5 win team right now, I think the locker room and the core they've built there will be fairly against moving on from Fields and bringing a rookie in there to lead the room. Not saying that's why you DON'T draft a QB (They're professionals, they'll move on quick if the new guy is legit) but I'm simply saying there are a lot of moving pieces to consider with the No. 1 pick. Luckily, they don't need to make the decision today. They've got 4 more games and while I don't know if those 4 games will tell us a ton about Fields (since we have 3 years of tape at this point) I do think they will be a decent indicator overall of what direction the franchise should take in the offseason. Like last year, it's going to be incredibly interesting to watch and Pace has done a great job of giving himself multiple options to pursue.

Say the Bears win 2 more games this season, which seems pretty possible. That’s 7 wins with two historic losses mixed into the season. Let’s say one of the wins is against the Packers last week of the season. There are going to be some decent vibes heading into the offseason. Is Poles going to fire the entire coaching staff, trade Fields, draft a rookie QB and then make the other additions via the draft and FA? That seems like a huge offseason that more feels like Madden then the NFL. Not saying it wouldn’t be the right move, just talking about odds