KMule2545

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 11:33 AM) Not sure if it was posted but baseball tonight suggested a trade: Houston gets: Q Sox get: Martes, Reed, Daz Cameron They went around the table and said who says no and everyone agreed it's was a perfect trade. I know everyone wants Tucker but would you be okay with this? They said Martes is the best prospect so we would get another top prospect plus Reed and Cameron (who's Mike Cameron's son). Daz Cameron is absolute trash. Nothing but a set of tools. He typifies the old kind of Sox draft pick who is just not a ball player. I want nothing to do with Daz Cameron.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 01:17 AM) Hell yea, with a payroll of zilch. We are set up to dominate this division for a long time. Does anybody else feel like Minnesota completely whiffed on their rebuild? Their young guys are meh and they don't have pieces to really sell and replenish. Just have to draft their way back. Yeah, I'm kind of questioning what's going on with Minnesota. Best case for them, Buxton and Sano still become stars or superstars and Max Kepler a good regular. They don't have much else on the MLB team currently in terms of long-term pieces. They've got two more position prospects in Nick Gordon and Alex Kirilloff, but their inability to develop pitching has killed them/will kill them.

It's official - 5 years, $82.5 million for Fowler + full no trade clause.

QUOTE (FLsouthsider @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 09:12 AM) I'm thinking the Sox might hang on to Quintana this season. Next year's free agent class of SPs is nothing special so it wouldn't be all that surprising if he stuck around another year and then Hahn can move the crown jewel of the winter meetings for a second straight year. Although God only knows the kind of defense Q would be pitching in front of here. And if he thought run support was bad before ... It's a lotttt better than the current one if certain guys opt out.

QUOTE (beautox @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 12:05 AM) That is incredibly light of a return. Quintana has about 128m in surplus value. Bregman even as the #1 top prospect in the game is only worth about 73.5 in surplus value. If Houston doesn't want to include him then tell them to look forward to going out in the first round in October. Top prospect hitters are worth significantly more than their pitching counter parts. Quintana is worth just going by the point of pittsburgh value Bregman - 73.5, Tucker - 38.2, Paulino - 16.5 = 128.2 compare that to say a rockies package of Rodgers - 73.5, Pint - 29.8 & Tapia - 22.4 = 125.7 and you possibly get a throw in as well like Freeland. I understand surplus value and everything but you're not going to get a package better than what Sale got you, plain and simple. You may get a throw in with Martes/Tucker/Reed but that's about it, IMO. You got two top 30 prospects and 2 projects for the best pircher in the AL in Sale. Martes and Tucker are two top 50 guys and Reed was a top 20 guy coming into 2016.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 11:24 PM) Been watching videos of Martes. So are we still thinking Martes/Tucker/Reed? How do you guys feel about Martes moving forward? #2-3 starter? Definitely Martes/Tucker/Reed if they move off the untouchable crap on Martes and Tucker. No deal if they don't get off it. That projection sounds about right.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 11:22 PM) Tucker, the fifth overall pick in last year's draft, batted .276 with six home runs, 19 doubles and a .750 OPS and 31 stolen bases in 101 games with Quad Cities (before his promotion to Lancaster late in the season). Baseball America regarded Tucker as the industry's 35th-best prospect in its recent mid-season rankings. chron.com/sports He sucks, lol! But, because he has a pretty (and projectable) left-handed swing but limited power (so far), he's nearly untouchable. I know I'm getting the reputation as a Kyle Tucker fan boy, but i can't help it lol. His overall line on the year was .285/.360/.438/.798 at age 19 with 9 HR/69 RBI/32 SB/81K in 117 games - a bit better than his stats at just Lancaster. With that swing and his hit tool and his body, the power most likely will develop. For every one player who has in-game power at such a young age, two players won't develop power until their early to mid twenties. That being said, no way in hell a 19 year old guy in A ball should be considered untouchable for a player like Quintana by a team trying to win now. Bregman I can understand being truly untouchable because his loss would affect the curent team. Get real, Houston.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 11:07 PM) The Sox aren't trading Quintana to Astros without getting Tucker back IMO. I personally think this is just posturing so Luhnow can eventually tell Hahn "fine, fine, I can't give you Bregman but I can do something with Tucker". At some point I see this trade getting done. Given their situation, a TOR starter is just too valuable to pass on over a prospect 2+ years out. I agree. There is no way in the world Q will be an Astro without Bregman or Tucker. 0 chance. If they're stance on that is hard Q will be going to a different team.

QUOTE (reiks12 @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 10:42 PM) Houston saying that Tucker is nearly untouchable. I'm with iamshack, f*** Houston. Sounds like they really don't want to get a TOR starter. Guarantee Tampa would require Tucker for Archer as well. Maybe it's posturing on guys teams are asking for in deal or maybe it's prospect hoarding. They could have the '27 Yankees lineup and still fall short late in the year with that pitching. Good luck selling that to your fanbase, Luhnow.

QUOTE (Wanne @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 08:49 PM) it's targeting hitters..hence Schwartz regardless of his position. IMO...being a C is icing on the cake.... Still..take the best player available - any position, hitters or pitchers. From what I understand, Schwarz went from being the future Buster Posey his freshman year to hitting 7 HR and having his stock fall significantly in his sophomore year. We'll see what happens in 2017. Hopefully we can be s***ty enough in 2017 to land the BPA as of now in 2018, Seth Beer. what a marketing opportunity.

@Cardinals, OF Dexter Fowler reportedly close to deal. Club hasn’t confirmed. https://t.co/krp83q10fI https://twitter.com/MLB/status/807034935949271040 I'm curious to see if Cubs fans will boo him Johnny Damon style. Edit: Fowler's deal expected to be big with stl, as @dgoold said. Unconfirmed, but word is 5 yrs, at least 16M/yr. https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/807040838509457408 Heyman goes on to say 80/90 mil is rumored.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 08:11 PM) The key here is that catching spot, and CF. Can Collins play it well enough...and not impact a young pitching staff from a defensive/leadership standpoint in a negative way? We'll find out soon enough, because he's going to spend time with a lot of those young pitchers before they reach the big leagues. We've seen with Eaton, Cain and Heyward the value that the market is playing on DRS/WAR now (and also the difference between Eaton/DeAza/Rios/Pods in CF vs. on a corner). If the White Sox can develop Basabe (big if) or bring in another version in Cameron, then that solves your four main pieces to the puzzle, and you can address the corners much more easily. In reality, CF and catcher has been an issue for half a decade now...and CF, much longer. And with AJ, you lived with the defensive shortcomings because he made up for it offensively and with gamesmanship, for most of his White Sox career. Fwiw, Tucker was playing CF in the Quad Cities this summer and looked pretty natural/fluid in the few balls hit to him, but he's not Devon White out there either. I agree with you but we can't worry about targeting our future guys for CF and C until we're reading to compete, IMO. When you target and plan for specific positions is when you tend to fall short. Collect the best talent possible in trades and the draft for now and worry about acquiring our positions of need either via trade or FA when we're ready to compete. Who knows, players we already have may develop and be there for us. Time will tell. Patience is key.

QUOTE (Wanne @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 07:32 PM) oh I agree...you always want both. I think Hahn hit the mother lode with both deals...and it'd be great if it continued. That being the case I think you might have better luck pointing a deal towards Colorado. I'm just not seeing Houston offering up a very large package...and getting them to part with Bregman would be huge. I just don't think you're going to get anywhere close to the packages we've seen already... That being said...if that 1-1 actually went thru...and you'd have told me a few weeks ago: Sox traded Sale, Q and Eaton and got: Moncada Bregman Giolito Kopech Basabe Diaz Lopez Dunning I probably would have crapped my pants... Yeah I mean seeing what we got back so far for Sale and Eaton, you could probably demand Rodgers back from Colorado as the headliner. Shoot, Rodgers is ranked just as high as Bregman was before his call up. He'd look just as nice as Bregman would as the 3B of the future. I agree, you're probably looking at a Martes/Reed/Tucker (who I love) + maybe another player back from Houston where you're probably looking at some combo of Rodgers + Dahl/Tapia/Freeland/Pint/Nikorak/Murphy back from Colorado.

QUOTE (Wanne @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 07:15 PM) touche'. However...at this point I'd still be more about quality than quantity given what we've already gotten back for Sale and Eaton. But you got both quality AND quantity back in those deals. Ideally we can continue that trend.

QUOTE (Wanne @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 07:09 PM) I take it then you're not sold on Bregman being a potential star?.....that was my point. To me...he seems like as sure a thing as you'll find in a young player. He'll be a good one I think... You're discounting injury and a player just not finding his grove at the MLB level. Gordon Beckham looked like a sure thing too.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 06:56 PM) Absolutely not. This. I feel the same way about doing a 1-for-1 Q deal as I felt about potentially doing an Abreu for Moncada 1-for-1. That's not the proper way to rebuild - putting all your risk aka much of your future into one player. IMO, we need 3-5 very talented prospects in these deals instead of 1-for-1 swaps on these elite guys like Bregman for a player like Q or Abreu. Honestly, the only deal I'd be okay getting 1 prospect back in return for would be a Frazier + Robertson for Cody Bellinger deal. I'd rather do Q to Colorado for Rodgers+++ than Bregman straight up with no second thoughts. You're paying a massive premium on Bregman being MLB-ready.

Can we get a thread name change here? It's become a little misleading with multiple teams kicking the tires on Robertson now.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 12:22 PM) No they won't. They barely showed up for Chris Sale starts despite lower level seats with free t-shirts for $15 or $20. I appreciate all the people who are thinking about or actually buying tickets, but as a whole, it isn't going to happen. Attendance will be way off. All this talk was like the talk right after 9/11 how people were going to buy stocks for America, so the stock market didn't crash. The stock market crashed. Those that bought stocks to be patriotic got burned. Its one thing to sit through 3 or 4 of those, but you buy a season ticket package, you are going to wonder why you just didn't go to Stubhub. Okay, you nitpicked about 3 words I said there. I said the ballpark is going to be EMPTY when 2017 starts and that fans will GRADUALLY start to come back more over the next few years.

Fans didn't show up the past 5 years "while trying to win" and f***ing sucking. I expect the ballpark will be mostly empty the first few months of 2017, but when your Moncadas and Giolitos etc. start getting called up, more and more people will come back over the course of the next few years. Young players with star potential are very exciting to a lot of people. Obviously, our franchise won't get a full reboot with the attendance until the whole team is competitive, but the sense that I get is that our fanbase is freshly energized from this moves and the excitement will rise further when more players get moved.

Balls-to-the-walls kind of guy. Adam, I think you exemplified the true Southside brand of baseball.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 12:19 AM) FWIW Dave Cameron thinks Jones should net a return similar to what Ken Giles got last year. I agree with Cameron, I've been saying the same thing for weeks. Most likely nobody elite, but should be able to get some nice talent for sure.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 12:20 AM) Not to mention that all those players will finally have an assembly of talent together on one team, and instead of them being promoted individually...the front office will start thinking more carefully about building a "winning tradition" in the minors and moving them together more strategically, rather than just rushing/challenging them or whatever the system was before. Forcing them to fail so they could deconstruct them later, but that failure creates doubts in the heads of so many young players when they're so used to success. Brian Anderson, for example, could never adjust once the game actually got difficult and more cerebral and less physical at the major league level. (Partying all the time didn't help, either.) This "wave after wave" approach is one that has a lot of merit, and one you could clearly see paying off for teams that had 2-3 "top prospects" bunched together at each level of the organization...those teammates learned how to trust each other, how to play the game in a fundamentally correct way and how to win together, so they weren't just thrown together like the island of misfit toys and expected to gel at the major league level, where coaching/instruction tends to take a back seat and you're thrown directly into the great blue ocean to "sink or swim" without a lifeline. Good post. I'm hoping they start taking a conservative approach with all of our prospects. Rushing has got us nothing. Promote based on merit, not necessity. And as you said it gives them a chance to win together in the Minors with the hopes of winning at the big leagues together as well.

If Jansen doesn't accept the Marlins offer, Robertson for Jarlin Garcia...who says no Sox or Marlins?

QUOTE (Heads22 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 10:27 PM) I'd be surprised if Nate Jones has the value that we think he does. I think he's one of those guys that's way more valuable to us than other teams and will be our closer this year. He's not gonna get you elite prospects like Moncado or Giolito, most likely, but the dude is signed at 5 years for 15 mil. That's insane value after seeing Chapman's 80-something over 5 years. Plus his arsenal is nasty and had a 175 ERA+/2.29 ERA/0.89 WHIP/10.2K per 9/1.9 BB per 9 in 2016. You're gonna get some very nice pieces for him after Jansen signs or at midseason. Relievers are valued more heavily now than ever.

The #WhiteSox kept asking for #RedSox 3B Rafael Dever in Chris Sale trade, but the RedSox refused. Compromise: Victor Diaz and Luis Basabe. Check out @BNightengale's Tweet: https://twitter.com/BNightengale/status/806...0049196032?s=09