Dick Allen Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 I think long term you try to develop Collins. Flowers came a long way defensively in the Sox system. Until they are trying to compete, I don't think it is imperative they find a long term guy. When they are ready to win, it should mean they can carry an offensively challenged guy back there, so you find a veteran pitch framer who calls a good game. Catchers are hard to find, hard to develop, have a bust rate, but some come out of nowhere. I would hate the Sox not get big time value somewhere else and get smoked takimg on a mediocre catcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 09:15 PM) If we are doing this rebuilding thing I want Navarez to get most of the reps at Catcher to see if we might have something with him Well, if we are going by that logic then they are probably going to run Avi out there again as well. I don't have a problem with it in what is FINALLY a rebuilding year. If they suck they suck and actually might help bring success by improving the draft pick. If they improve, f***ing great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 09:21 PM) I think long term you try to develop Collins. Flowers came a long way defensively in the Sox system. Until they are trying to compete, I don't think it is imperative they find a long term guy. When they are ready to win, it should mean they can carry an offensively challenged guy back there, so you find a veteran pitch framer who calls a good game. Catchers are hard to find, hard to develop, have a bust rate, but some come out of nowhere. I would hate the Sox not get big time value somewhere else and get smoked takimg on a mediocre catcher. As you said yourself, the chances Collins pans out are very slim. Maybe 1/10 as a catcher. It would behoove them to find someone in one of these trades that is much closer to MLB level or already at MLB level. Won't be cheap, for all the reasons you listed, but if they are rebuilding getting a solid catcher should be a high priority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHurt3515 Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 08:22 PM) Well, if we are going by that logic then they are probably going to run Avi out there again as well. I don't have a problem with it in what is FINALLY a rebuilding year. If they suck they suck and actually might help bring success by improving the draft pick. If they improve, f***ing great. Well no lol. Avi has had plenty of chances, Navarez has not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 08:23 PM) As you said yourself, the chances Collins pans out are very slim. Maybe 1/10 as a catcher. It would behoove them to find someone in one of these trades that is much closer to MLB level or already at MLB level. Won't be cheap, for all the reasons you listed, but if they are rebuilding getting a solid catcher should be a high priority. I never said that. No one is going to trade you the next Buster Posey. I read a Fangraphs guy say Collins horrid AFL defensively can be blamed a lot on playing games since February. He has a long way to go, but has made strides in recent years, and is willing to work hard at it. John Orton works with Sox minor league catchers and made Flowers a decent defensive catcher when he basically had the same reputation as Collins both defensively and offensively. Flowers was going to move away from catching and be a big power OBP guy. IMO, he never was great defensively, but he usually called a good game and became a great framer. If Collins gets anywhere near there, he can catch a couple times a week at least. Edited December 7, 2016 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 09:26 PM) Well no lol. Avi has had plenty of chances, Navarez has not I'm just saying if you're really committing to a rebuild then it makes sense to apply that same logic to guys like Avi. Same with Saladino, same with Sanchez. Yes Avi has failed but unless they have someone he's blocking (and they don't) then you just trot him out there and hope for the best. If they were contending (like last Winter's moves indicated) then it would be stupid (like it was last year with Avi) but they aren't, things change. There's no downside to letting Avi trot out there for 300 more PA if he's not blocking anybody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 Ramos got $12.5 mill over 2 years with potential to make up to $18.5. I would have offered a bit more guaranteed money to get him in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 10:33 PM) Ramos got $12.5 mill over 2 years with potential to make up to $18.5. I would have offered a bit more guaranteed money to get him in. Eh, the problem with Ramos is that someone still has to catch for the first 1/2 of the season, so we still need a catcher somewhere else to go along with Narvaez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 08:34 PM) Eh, the problem with Ramos is that someone still has to catch for the first 1/2 of the season, so we still need a catcher somewhere else to go along with Narvaez. Ryan Hanigan on minor league deal. Or any other backup type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 10:35 PM) Ryan Hanigan on minor league deal. Or any other backup type. Great, do that anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHurt3515 Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 08:30 PM) I'm just saying if you're really committing to a rebuild then it makes sense to apply that same logic to guys like Avi. Same with Saladino, same with Sanchez. Yes Avi has failed but unless they have someone he's blocking (and they don't) then you just trot him out there and hope for the best. If they were contending (like last Winter's moves indicated) then it would be stupid (like it was last year with Avi) but they aren't, things change. There's no downside to letting Avi trot out there for 300 more PA if he's not blocking anybody. If we don't trade Melky or Eaton I would expect Avi to start Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 08:36 PM) Great, do that anyway. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Posted December 7, 2016 Author Share Posted December 7, 2016 QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 08:01 PM) Not trying to be mean but did you pay attention to MLB in the second half of the year? I don't blame you if you didnt. But he was one of the biggest stories in baseball. Highly doubt he's touchable after that. watched very little baseball last year. mainly radio and at bat app feeds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 09:10 PM) Gross. Horrible pitcher framer too. Suggested for a one year stop gap. Worth noting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 Hundley is available, again, terrible framer. Our offense will be a black hole but Pena's Defense is supposedly phenomenal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 QUOTE (Real @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 10:20 PM) watched very little baseball last year. mainly radio and at bat app feeds Sanchez was a HUGE story. I was checked out and couldn't help but see his name everywhere. He put up some Ruthian like numbers for about 50 games, and it was for the Yankees so of course it got magnified every more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 Chris Widger is a free agent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 (edited) If 2017 will be a true rebuild year, why not sign Suzuki or Hanigan as a stopgap? Even if the Sox were able to acquire a catching prospect in another trade, my guess is that they would still need a placeholder for 2017. Edited December 7, 2016 by pittshoganerkoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 06:36 AM) If 2017 will be a true rebuild year, why not sign Suzuki or Hanigan as a stopgap? Even if the Sox were able to acquire a catching prospect in another trade, my guess is that they would still need a placeholder for 2017. I mainly hate it because of the stories of how Rodon lost more strikes than any other pitcher. Need to get him his own catcher and those guys are terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 06:41 AM) I mainly hate it because of the stories of how Rodon lost more strikes than any other pitcher. Need to get him his own catcher and those guys are terrible. Wasnt Rodon raving about Narvaez's catching and game calling towards the end of the season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 08:59 AM) Wasnt Rodon raving about Narvaez's catching and game calling towards the end of the season? "He's not Navarro this is spectacular!!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveno89 Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 07:19 AM) "He's not Navarro this is spectacular!!!" Narvaez did a pretty decent job during his 34 games at the big league level I thought. Probably not starting catcher material, but certainly could be a quality backup He's only 24 years old as well, worth hanging onto. Collins should absolutely be developed as a catcher in the minors for a few more seasons. Since we are going to suck the next few seasons anyway all we need is a serviceable defensive catcher. Is Chris Ianetta available? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 QUOTE (DirtySox @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 09:12 PM) I figure it really doesn't matter during this rebuild. I fully expect an uninspiring stopgap. Wellington Castillo would be a nice grab though. Hope he rebuilds some value, and flip him at the deadline. During the rebuild we should prioritizing a catcher that pitchers like throwing to as you try to develop young arms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 I say Wellington Castillo, or just bring back Avila. Let Narvaez get good playing time. I do think the Sox will probably acquire a ML ready catcher in one of these deals though. Tom Murphy from the Rox or Pedro Severino from the Nats are two to keep an eye on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 07:19 AM) "He's not Navarro this is spectacular!!!" Good one dude! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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