Sox holding talks "daily" on Q

[QuickJones81]

For those that don't want Bell as the headliner, how would Bellinger have been good enough as a headliner with the Dodgers for Sale?

 

FWIW, which is not much, I traded Q and Robertson for Meadows, Glasnow. Bell, and Hayes in OOTP. Meadows and Glasnow were busts. Bell and Hayes became studs, Bell moreso.

[Balta1701]

For what? The Sox are already asking for Meadows, and should get him as the headliner to any deal with Pittsburgh.

If taking Bastardo back was key to getting the Pirates to open up Meadows I have no idea why we wouldn't do it.

 

Meadows, Keller, Newman, Diaz (3 position players and a young pitcher that seems like a future top 5 prospect) + Bastardo for Quintana and Petricka (so that they get a cheap RH arm back for their bullpen). Taking Bastardo back balances Quintana's salary for them. I make sure pieces 3-4 are pieces I like - I would take Hayes or Tucker instead of Newman/Diaz if my scouts like them, basically those guys can't be throw-ins - and that's a deal I do right now.

[steveno89]

FWIW, which is not much, I traded Q and Robertson for Meadows, Glasnow. Bell, and Hayes in OOTP. Meadows and Glasnow were busts. Bell and Hayes became studs, Bell moreso.

 

Scout.com suggested this possible trade idea today

 

What do you guys think?

 

Chicago White Sox recieve: RHP Tyler Glasnow, SS Kevin Newman, RHP Mitch Keller, 3B Will Craig, RHP Clay Holmes

 

Pittsburgh Pirates recieve: LHP Jose Quintana

[reiks12]

Scout.com suggested this possible trade idea today

 

What do you guys think?

 

Chicago White Sox recieve: RHP Tyler Glasnow, SS Kevin Newman, RHP Mitch Keller, 3B Will Craig, RHP Clay Holmes

 

Pittsburgh Pirates recieve: LHP Jose Quintana

 

 

Take it instantly

[shipps]

Rum Bunter ‏@rumbunter 17m17 minutes ago

Rum Bunter Retweeted USABEvents

White sox fans this guy is going no where

 

This was in response to Austin Meadows being on the cover of Baseball America.

[Balta1701]

Rum Bunter ‏@rumbunter 17m17 minutes ago

Rum Bunter Retweeted USABEvents

White sox fans this guy is going no where

 

This was in response to Austin Meadows being on the cover of Baseball America.

Then as I said, good luck in that division.

[Thad Bosley]

Rum Bunter ‏@rumbunter 17m17 minutes ago

Rum Bunter Retweeted USABEvents

White sox fans this guy is going no where

 

This was in response to Austin Meadows being on the cover of Baseball America.

Well, that's fine, but then Pirates fans should not hope to see Mr. Quintana with a green parrot sitting on his shoulder anytime soon.

[beautox]

Rum Bunter ‏@rumbunter 17m17 minutes ago

Rum Bunter Retweeted USABEvents

White sox fans this guy is going no where

 

This was in response to Austin Meadows being on the cover of Baseball America.

 

 

 

MFW opposing fans say their prospects aren't going anywhere when dealing for elite major league talent like Q.

Edited January 11, 2017 by beautox

[harfman77]

Scout.com suggested this possible trade idea today

 

What do you guys think?

 

Chicago White Sox recieve: RHP Tyler Glasnow, SS Kevin Newman, RHP Mitch Keller, 3B Will Craig, RHP Clay Holmes

 

Pittsburgh Pirates recieve: LHP Jose Quintana

 

It would sting a bit not to get that high ceiling offensive player, but with two guys that project as a #1 and a #2 with a couple useful throw ins, that would be hard to turn down.

[steveno89]

Take it instantly

 

That would be a very solid offer for Quintana

[FT35]

Still think that in the end, Q will go to a team where resources are unlimited--even if you're not hearing that team mentioned a lot now. Teams like the Pirates, Astros and Rockies are brought up a lot because they have the prospects to pull it off--but even when you get down to it...Q's price tag is enormous. To acquire him, you'll have to pay a huge price (even if that's in prospects rather than cash). For a smaller market team, prospects are the life blood--they make the world turn. Gutting a system of all the top talent to acquire 1 player is just as much of a risk to a smaller market team as it is for a large team to throw $200M at a FA. Can they do it, yes. Should they do it...maybe, but only if you're that 1 player away from serious World Series contention. Think about it...a smaller market team guts their system to get Q...now they are without the capital AND without the prospects to make other deals. Their asset becomes Q obviously, but a lot is riding on that acquisition to either deliver a World Series run or a similar haul of prospects after losing a year or 2 of control.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but in the end...I think you see teams like the Yankees or Dodgers emerge as true front runners because they have BOTH the prospects AND the financial resources to pull from or fall back on. Cashman's remarks about the price being too high was his way of confirming this reality in the minds of all the smaller market teams--hopefully sending the message to other teams "if it's too high for the Yankees, it's too high for a team like you--(PIT)." Cashman knows he has what it takes to pull it off because if this trade bombs, he'll go buy another farm system. I think same goes for Dodgers. To acquire an asset like Q is a deep pocket investment--thin on cash and or prospects will ultimately box you out of the mix. If a smaller market team ends up with the winning bid, I will be very surprised considering the amount of risk they are taking on from a resource perspective.

Edited January 11, 2017 by FT35

[southsider2k5]

If taking Bastardo back was key to getting the Pirates to open up Meadows I have no idea why we wouldn't do it.

 

Meadows, Keller, Newman, Diaz (3 position players and a young pitcher that seems like a future top 5 prospect) + Bastardo for Quintana and Petricka (so that they get a cheap RH arm back for their bullpen). Taking Bastardo back balances Quintana's salary for them. I make sure pieces 3-4 are pieces I like - I would take Hayes or Tucker instead of Newman/Diaz if my scouts like them, basically those guys can't be throw-ins - and that's a deal I do right now.

 

We should be getting that deal without Petricka or Bastardo being in the deal. That lacks their best pitcher, and their second best position player prospects. If we are taking salary AND kicking in another guy?

 

Meadows, Glasnow, Newman, Bell, and Keller, plus a lottery ticket or two.

[steveno89]

We should be getting that deal without Petricka or Bastardo being in the deal. That lacks their best pitcher, and their second best position player prospects. If we are taking salary AND kicking in another guy?

 

Meadows, Glasnow, Newman, Bell, and Keller, plus a lottery ticket or two.

 

Meadows, glasnow, bell, newman and keller is insane to even suggest.

 

Pirates aren't offering that much short of trout

[bmags]

Meadows, glasnow, bell, newman and keller is insane to even suggest.

 

Pirates aren't offering that much short of trout

 

Liriano's 13 million dollar salary forced them two top twenty TEAM prospects but sending bastardo's 6 million dollar salary going into the deal forces them to include a top 20 prospect?

 

Like you said, that is a Mike Trout package, not a Quintana plus Petricka

[harfman77]

Still think that in the end, Q will go to a team where resources are unlimited--even if you're not hearing that team mentioned a lot now. Teams like the Pirates, Astros and Rockies are brought up a lot because they have the prospects to pull it off--but even when you get down to it...Q's price tag is enormous. To acquire him, you'll have to pay a huge price (even if that's in prospects rather than cash). For a smaller market team, prospects are the life blood--they make the world turn. Gutting a system of all the top talent to acquire 1 player is just as much of a risk to a smaller market team as it is for a large team to throw $200M at a FA. Can they do it, yes. Should they do it...maybe, but only if you're that 1 player away from serious World Series contention. Think about it...a smaller market team guts their system to get Q...now they are without the capital AND without the prospects to make other deals. Their asset becomes Q obviously, but a lot is riding on that acquisition to either deliver a World Series run or a similar haul of prospects after losing a year or 2 of control.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but in the end...I think you see teams like the Yankees or Dodgers emerge as true front runners because they have BOTH the prospects AND the financial resources to pull from or fall back on. Cashman's remarks about the price being too high was his way of scaring off all the smaller market teams--hopefully sending the message to other teams "if it's too high for the Yankees, it's too high for a team like you--(PIT)." Cashman knows he has what it takes to pull it off because if this trade bombs, he'll go buy another farm system. I think same goes for Dodgers. To acquire an asset like Q is a deep pocket investment--thin on cash and or prospects will ultimately box you out of the mix. If a smaller market team ends up with the winning bid, I will be very surprised considering the amount of risk they are taking on from a resource perspective.

 

 

I think Q's contract makes him much more valuable to the small market teams that have a window of contention. In the instance of the Pirates, they can only hope that their prospects develop to give them as much value as Q will provide over the next 4 years. They are going to lose Cole, probably next winter, and Cutch will be out around the same time. If they want to take a shot that time is now and they need to capitalize by flipping some of those potential assets into assets that can help make a push now. By the time these prospects are going to be ready to contribute at a high level, the Pirates will have lost many of their key contributors to FA.

 

The Pirates can wait for the next wave of prospects to develop to contend, but I am not sure their GM will be their to see it.

[Mattchoo]

Great and all Meadows on the cover.... but the best major leaguer in the deal is Q. He is easily a top 30 starter in baseball. What do the stats show again?

 

This deal should be Meadows and two others in the 50-150 prospect range, unless Sox throw in another asset for Pitt.

 

I get liking a prospect, but you don't get a TOR pitcher for nothing but hopes and dreams.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Mattchoo

[steveno89]

Liriano's 13 million dollar salary forced them two top twenty TEAM prospects but sending bastardo's 6 million dollar salary going into the deal forces them to include a top 20 prospect?

 

Like you said, that is a Mike Trout package, not a Quintana plus Petricka

 

No team can gut it's farm and trade its top five prospects in one deal (in a decent system)

 

Teams rely on their farm to produce depth moving forward.

 

The scout.com proposal is a very interesting one, that could actually make sense for each side. Pirates get Quintana , while keeping meadows and bell. Sox get five quality prospects

[steveno89]

Great and all Meadows on the cover.... but the best major leaguer in the deal is Q. He is easily a top 30 starter in baseball. What do the stats show again?

 

This deal should be Meadows and two others in the 50-150 prospect range, unless Sox throw in another asset for Pitt.

 

I get liking a prospect, but you don't get a TOR pitcher for nothing but hopes and dreams.

 

Meadows is a very good prospect, but he has been somewhat injury prone.

 

I'd prefer the scout.com proposal over meadows plus two

[FT35]

I think Q's contract makes him much more valuable to the small market teams that have a window of contention. In the instance of the Pirates, they can only hope that their prospects develop to give them as much value as Q will provide over the next 4 years. They are going to lose Cole, probably next winter, and Cutch will be out around the same time. If they want to take a shot that time is now and they need to capitalize by flipping some of those potential assets into assets that can help make a push now. By the time these prospects are going to be ready to contribute at a high level, the Pirates will have lost many of their key contributors to FA.

 

The Pirates can wait for the next wave of prospects to develop to contend, but I am not sure their GM will be their to see it.

 

Absolutely! There's no question a player of high value is more valuable to a smaller market team...however...the cost to acquire him is still the same--just in a different form. They can acquire him without the risk of a big contract--but in the end, they are gutting their farm system for him--and their farm system is somewhat of a smaller market team's currency. It's an exercise in logic--Q is a valuable asset, to acquire him will require you to ante up an adequate amount of resources. That price is high even when you're talking a teams' prospects because the only way the smaller market teams get high quality players is to develop them and that takes time. Gutting your system when you're a small market team says "we're this 1 particular player away from putting us over the top." I'm not sure Pittsburgh is there??

 

Track record--players with high value trade log:

Sale--BOSTON (Deep Pocket resources--Prospects + $)

Eaton--WASHINGTON (Deep Pocket resources--Prospects + $)

 

Both those guys would be more valuable to smaller market teams because of their contracts--but look where they ended up in the end.

 

 

[Con te Giolito]

Braves have interesting stuff. Albies is closer to Meadows and Torres than you'd think but they really wouldn't need to include him. There are 9, maybe 10, top 100 prospects in their system and the players they have past that are not slouches. They probably wont provide the instant gratification that New York, Pittsburgh or Houston will (though make no mistake, Atlanta can), but if a quantity of explosive talent is what you're after that's the system to pillage.

[pablo]

Absolutely! There's no question a player of high value is more valuable to a smaller market team...however...the cost to acquire him is still the same--just in a different form. They can acquire him without the risk of a big contract--but in the end, they are gutting their farm system for him--and their farm system is somewhat of a smaller market team's currency. It's an exercise in logic--Q is a valuable asset, to acquire him will require you to ante up an adequate amount of resources. That price is high even when you're talking a teams' prospects because the only way the smaller market teams get high quality players is to develop them and that takes time. Gutting your system when you're a small market team says "we're this 1 particular player away from putting us over the top." I'm not sure Pittsburgh is there??

 

Track record--players with high value trade log:

Sale--BOSTON (Deep Pocket resources--Prospects + $)

Eaton--WASHINGTON (Deep Pocket resources--Prospects + $)

 

Both those guys would be more valuable to smaller market teams because of their contracts--but look where they ended up in the end.

 

I really think Pitt is a unique situation in that even if they get Quintana and say it doesn't work out, they can - A) Trade Cole at the 2018 deadline (maybe next offseason) for a significant haul or B) Trade Q in a two years for a significant haul again. They are basically giving themselves 1-2 chances with a nearly complete roster (assuming Cutch and Kang bounce back which isn't out of the question) to challenge the Cubs for the division or hope to get in as a WC. If it doesn't work, they can retool and try again after that.

 

Now, if Huntington thinks like that, we have no idea...

 

[pablo]

I really think Pitt is a unique situation in that even if they get Quintana and say it doesn't work out, they can - A) Trade Cole at the 2018 deadline (maybe next offseason) for a significant haul or B) Trade Q in a two years for a significant haul again. They are basically giving themselves 1-2 chances with a nearly complete roster (assuming Cutch and Kang bounce back which isn't out of the question) to challenge the Cubs for the division or hope to get in as a WC. If it doesn't work, they can retool and try again after that.

 

Now, if Huntington thinks like that, we have no idea...

 

And just to add, as most here have said before, it probably comes down to if Huntington can trade Cutch in the next couple weeks. IF Cutch isn''t getting the deal the Pirates want right now, I can't imagine they'll get a good deal after this offseason. If they can't trade him, I'm thinking Meadows ends up being the headliner in the deal because there is literally no where to play him for the next two years and they should capitalize on the roster they currently have.

[southsider2k5]

Braves have interesting stuff. Albies is closer to Meadows and Torres than you'd think but they really wouldn't need to include him. There are 9, maybe 10, top 100 prospects in their system and the players they have past that are not slouches. They probably wont provide the instant gratification that New York, Pittsburgh or Houston will (though make no mistake, Atlanta can), but if a quantity of explosive talent is what you're after that's the system to pillage.

 

If Meadows and Bell are really off of the table, I'd much rather try to get a deal done with ATL.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

I'm not thrilled with Atlanta besides their depth. Unless they were willing to move 6 or 7 pieces for Q, I wouldn't be interested.

[Thad Bosley]

If Meadows and Bell are really off of the table, I'd much rather try to get a deal done with ATL.

I continue to find this hard to believe. I think eventually they won't be off the table. I mean, how often do the Pittsburgh Pirates get to acquire a player of Quintana's caliber, a TOR starter who isn't making a gazillion dollars a year. When was the last time anyone remembers the Pirates provided this opportunity? I think this "off of the table" stuff at the moment just continues to be negotiating leaks out there, similar as has been mentioned here about how Moncada was untouchable until he wasn't.

 

Not to mention, but if Gleyber Torres was "touchable" for three months of Aroldis Chapman, in what bizarre universe is Meadows and/or Bell untouchable for four years of Q?