I'm sick of the bunts. As far as the bullpen usage goes WTF is he supposed to even do when your starters are this bad and/or can't go more than 80 pitches?

 

The injuries to the rotation have finally caught up to the Sox the past two weeks and it's showing in the strain on the pen.

 

I really, really, really want to see Shields, Lopez and Rodon in this rotation by July. Start building some trade value for Shields and start building for the future with Rodon and Lopez.

 

Same. We need a biter(s) on Gonzalez or Holland first though.

Well.... I think he does some things better than ventura... ventura does somethings better than him (like hitters swinging 3-0)

 

However I don't think Renteria is supposed to be the manager that manages this team when it's supposed to win... or whatever the plan is.

 

 

I'm sick of the bunts. As far as the bullpen usage goes WTF is he supposed to even do when your starters are this bad and/or can't go more than 80 pitches?

 

The injuries to the rotation have finally caught up to the Sox the past two weeks and it's showing in the strain on the pen.

 

I really, really, really want to see Shields, Lopez and Rodon in this rotation by July. Start building some trade value for Shields and start building for the future with Rodon and Lopez.

You are a great poster, but please ... we're getting NOTHING for Shields. My gosh, what team would want anything to do with him?

You are a great poster, but please ... we're getting NOTHING for Shields. My gosh, what team would want anything to do with him?

 

It only takes one. I mean the White Sox traded a kid with a famous name for him.

Renteria was brutal last night. From not challenging to getting absolutely pantsed on defensive positioning that left 3B wide open.

Managers being insistent on only using their closers in these highly specific, arbitrary situations is something that I hope goes away eventually. Use your best relievers in the highest leverage spots, wherever they may be, save situation or not. I'd much rather use my closer to get out of a bases-loaded jam in the 7th against the heart of the order than to protect a 3-run lead in the 9th against the bottom of the order. This is the one area where it still feels like teams are operating in the dark ages.

Edited June 8, 20178 yr by OmarComing25

The beloved Cubs won a WS with a manager that made some "bad decisions" last year. Every manager is going to have some decisions or styles that people can cherry pick and somehow validate their opinion that said manager is horrible. Bad decisions stand out way more than all the good ones that you don't notice or see because they are subtle or everything worked out.

 

I am so over the days of trying to say which managers are good or bad. If you win your are f***ing alright with me. If you continue to lose over a long period of time (3-4 years) and your team looks fundamentally inept than you are a bad manager. I cant pretend to say I know who is a horrible in game manager and who isn't. As a fan, unless you are in the dugout and have knowledge of everything that is going in the grand scheme of things its hard to say what may be good for your team at that moment. Including bunting.

I think we've gotten to the point analytically where it's probably fair to say the impact these managers have on the psyches of their players, something which is entirely immeasurable, is probably far greater than the in-game strategy maneuvers.

I think we've gotten to the point analytically where it's probably fair to say the impact these managers have on the psyches of their players, something which is entirely immeasurable, is probably far greater than the in-game strategy maneuvers.

 

Agreed....

 

Same with Steverson vs. Walker, or Don Cooper's "success/non-success" the last five years or so.

 

Only those watching from the inside on an everyday basis can make that determination properly. We only get glimpses and very very rare outspoken players (or parents/agents) directly confronting coaching staff while playing for that organization.

 

 

I think we've gotten to the point analytically where it's probably fair to say the impact these managers have on the psyches of their players, something which is entirely immeasurable, is probably far greater than the in-game strategy maneuvers.

 

This is such an underrated and immeasurable part of the game. So few people talk about it.

Renteria needs to read one of the many articles like this https://theocho.ca/sacrifice-bunting-is-sac...ls-57bd2ae22798

https://twitter.com/jrfegan/status/873932168258621440

 

I HATE this quote by Ricky

That quote would make more sense if these bunts weren't coming in the 4th inning with a slow runner and 2 strikes.

https://twitter.com/jrfegan/status/873932168258621440

 

I HATE this quote by Ricky

 

I don't remember much bunting in the playoffs anyway?

baseball strategy is definitely not Renteria strength.

Patrick Nolan‏

@SSS_pnoles

 

The White Sox have 17 failed sacrifice bunt attempts in 2017.

 

Half the remaining American League teams haven't even attempted more than 17.

Patrick Nolan‏

@SSS_pnoles

 

The White Sox have 17 failed sacrifice bunt attempts in 2017.

 

Half the remaining American League teams haven't even attempted more than 17.

 

Blame the groundskeeper

 

Whatever, sac bunts help the Sox lose games.

I think we've gotten to the point analytically where it's probably fair to say the impact these managers have on the psyches of their players, something which is entirely immeasurable, is probably far greater than the in-game strategy maneuvers.

 

That is a terrific point.

 

The best managers are really amateur psychiatrists. They have an ability to figure out what drives guys, what gets on their minds...things like that.

 

Chuck Tanner was very good at this aspect and so was Jeff Torborg.

 

In fact Jeff called me this morning and as we talked he told me a story about Lance Johnson.

 

The Sox sent Lance back down in the spring of 1989 and Jeff said he was so upset he started crying. Jeff said he told him, 'let's go into my office...'

 

Jeff said he knew immediately what was really bothering Johnson so he gave him his phone number and told him to call anytime something was bothering him or if he just wanted to talk.

 

Jeff told me he knew that Johnson was worried that if he was sent back down to the minors nobody would care anymore and the organization would just forget about him.

 

History shows the type of player Lance was and you never know how this small gesture by Torborg played a part in that as it helped him mentally.

 

Another story Jeff told me a few years ago was right before the All Star Break in 89. Sox were in K.C. had a day off before opening up a series with the Royals.

 

Jeff asked the team to have a short workout on the off day just to go over fundamentals and that if they did it he wouldn't ask for a workout the day before the season resumed so they could be with their families a little longer.

 

So he gets to his office at Kauffman Stadium and sees a bunch of guys on the field working out, he went to his office to start working on lineup's for the series and after about an hour he went back out to the field expecting to see the guys all gone. Instead he found them actually playing a game like we used to do when we were kids (just lobbing pitches in to hitters).

 

He was amazed but thought, 'OK let's see what we can do with this.' So he told me he called and ordered pizza's and some beer and had them in the clubhouse when the team got back inside. They ate and talked.

 

When they came back after the break they won 11 of 12, had a winning record in the second half and had a fantastic 1990 season.

 

Little things sometimes add up to really big things.

 

You just wonder what could have been had Ron Schueler not insisted that he had to hire his own manager and forced Jeff out.

Edited July 20, 20178 yr by Lip Man 1

I get it for this team. Look at that horses*** lineup. But in general, I hate bunts.

That is a terrific point.

 

The best managers are really amateur psychiatrists. They have an ability to figure out what drives guys, what gets on their minds...things like that.

 

Chuck Tanner was very good at this aspect and so was Jeff Torborg.

 

In fact Jeff called me this morning and as we talked he told me a story about Lance Johnson.

 

The Sox sent Lance back down in the spring of 1989 and Jeff said he was so upset he started crying. Jeff said he told him, 'let's go into my office...'

 

Jeff said he knew immediately what was really bothering Johnson so he gave him his phone number and told him to call anytime something was bothering him or if he just wanted to talk.

 

Jeff told me he knew that Johnson was worried that if he was sent back down to the minors nobody would care anymore and the organization would just forget about him.

 

History shows the type of player Lance was and you never know how this small gesture by Torborg played a part in that as it helped him mentally.

 

Another story Jeff told me a few years ago was right before the All Star Break in 89. Sox were in K.C. had a day off before opening up a series with the Royals.

 

Jeff asked the team to have a short workout on the off day just to go over fundamentals and that if they did it he wouldn't ask for a workout the day before the season resumed so they could be with their families a little longer.

 

So he gets to his office at Kauffman Stadium and sees a bunch of guys on the field working out, he went to his office to start working on lineup's for the series and after about an hour he went back out to the field expecting to see the guys all gone. Instead he found them actually playing a game like we used to do when we were kids (just lobbing pitches in to hitters).

 

He was amazed but thought, 'OK let's see what we can do with this.' So he told me he called and ordered pizza's and some beer and had them in the clubhouse when the team got back inside. They ate and talked.

 

When they came back after the break they won 11 of 12, had a winning record in the second half and had a fantastic 1990 season.

 

Little things sometimes add up to really big things.

 

You just wonder what could have been had Ron Schueler not insisted that he had to hire his own manager and forced Jeff out.

What the good managers have is good players. Torborg was canned from the Marlins mid season, and then they won the WS. Of course they added Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis to their roster. His career winning pct. as a manager is .006 higher than Robin Ventura's, a guy who was blamed for a lot of things you still see with the same players this year. Bad baserunning, bad defense, stupid throws....Lefty Tanner set the record for consecutive last place finishes by a manager. All these guys did pretty well when they had good players. Ozzie Guillen was a genius when the Sox won and he wanted all the attention. When he did the exact same thing when they were not so good, he was an ego maniac. No one wins with bad players, some lose with some good ones, but the locker room stuff, IMO, is now self regulated. Players make much more money than the manager for the most part. If you have talent and the right players leading your clubhouse you're fine. If you are looking for your manager to be that guy, IMO, it will be brief and there are 2 or 3 guys tops that could get it done.

Patrick Nolan‏

@SSS_pnoles

 

The White Sox have 17 failed sacrifice bunt attempts in 2017.

 

Half the remaining American League teams haven't even attempted more than 17.

Wow. That Anderson bunt last night was just the worst. I hate bunting more than anything, but last night was felt even more infuriating and inexcusable than normal. It just has to stop.

Patrick Nolan‏

@SSS_pnoles

 

The White Sox have 17 failed sacrifice bunt attempts in 2017.

 

Half the remaining American League teams haven't even attempted more than 17.

 

This pretty much says it all here...

 

Maybe Renteria is a solid armchair psychiatrist... and in most ways that way more important.

 

But he has to lose the high school fast pitch softball strategy in MLB baseball.

 

Bunting has been statistically a waste of time in most situations since the end of the dead ball era... in 2017 with the ball flying out of stadiums at a record pace - its exponentially more idiotic.

What the good managers have is good players. Torborg was canned from the Marlins mid season, and then they won the WS. Of course they added Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis to their roster. His career winning pct. as a manager is .006 higher than Robin Ventura's, a guy who was blamed for a lot of things you still see with the same players this year. Bad baserunning, bad defense, stupid throws....Lefty Tanner set the record for consecutive last place finishes by a manager. All these guys did pretty well when they had good players. Ozzie Guillen was a genius when the Sox won and he wanted all the attention. When he did the exact same thing when they were not so good, he was an ego maniac. No one wins with bad players, some lose with some good ones, but the locker room stuff, IMO, is now self regulated. Players make much more money than the manager for the most part. If you have talent and the right players leading your clubhouse you're fine. If you are looking for your manager to be that guy, IMO, it will be brief and there are 2 or 3 guys tops that could get it done.

 

I think John Farrell is a great example. Look at this stretch he has had

 

2011--81-81 w Toronto

2012--73-89 w Toronto

2013--97-65 w Boston Won World Series

2014--71-91 w Boston

2015--78-84 w Boston

2016--93-69 w Boston

 

2 great , 2 average and 2 lousy.

Wow. That Anderson bunt last night was just the worst. I hate bunting more than anything, but last night was felt even more infuriating and inexcusable than normal. It just has to stop.

 

When the team is good, it needs to stop. Let these kids get the fundamentals of this sort of stuff down. Given Anderson's speed, he may be able to steal 5 hits a year by putting down a good bunt here and there.

When the team is good, it needs to stop. Let these kids get the fundamentals of this sort of stuff down. Given Anderson's speed, he may be able to steal 5 hits a year by putting down a good bunt here and there.

Bunting for a hit is different than sacrifice bunting. If Timmy wants to hone his ability to bunt for a hit, that's fine. But what he did yesterday was not that.