I think the Sox and Royals go back to the well again; MiGo & Holland to the Royals + cash(3-4M) for Nicky Lopez and Nick Dini

Think of it this way, if the White Sox were in contention, and they traded for Miguel Gonzalez, or Derek Holland or Mike Pelfrey or Tyler Clippard and gave up anything better than Courtney Hawkins, how pissed would you be? And how much would you question the White Sox braintrust sanity thinking these were guys that could get them over the top?

Edited July 31, 20178 yr by Dick Allen

I think we have several slots open on our 40 man roster. As these teams add players at the deadline, they may have to DFA someone who may be worth trying. They will probably have warts but should be no risk vs some reward. May find a interesting arm or two or a positional player with a interesting tool or two. The older prospect etc. This may be as good a return as we get for some of our last players.

Think of it this way, if the White Sox were in contention, and they traded for Miguel Gonzalez, or Derek Holland or Mike Pelfrey or Tyler Clippard and gave up anything better than Courtney Hawkins, how pissed would you be? And how much would you question the White Sox braintrust sanity thinking these were guys that could get them over the top?

 

Trading for a guy like Gonzalez I don't think would be about "putting your team over the top." Pretty much just to give you a better chance every 5th day than what you currently have and likely leave him off playoff roster if you have 4 guys better.

Edited July 31, 20178 yr by soxfan2014

Think of it this way, if the White Sox were in contention, and they traded for Miguel Gonzalez, or Derek Holland or Mike Pelfrey or Tyler Clippard and gave up anything better than Courtney Hawkins, how pissed would you be? And how much would you question the White Sox braintrust sanity thinking these were guys that could get them over the top?

Pelfrey gets paid by Detroit, so he's making minimum. Someone might take him, but it won't be for anything worth talking about.

 

And someone has to pitch.

 

I'm with you here. No value in exposing Charlotte guys who aren't ready or overusing our meager bullpen for two months.

<!--quoteo(post=3547996:date=Jul 31, 2017 -> 10:42 AM:name=Dick Allen)-->

<!--quotec-->Think of it this way, if the White Sox were in contention, and they traded for Miguel Gonzalez, or Derek Holland or Mike Pelfrey or Tyler Clippard and gave up anything better than Courtney Hawkins, how pissed would you be? And how much would you question the White Sox braintrust sanity thinking these were guys that could get them over the top?

That's a bench position player vs. a pitcher who has to pitch. Very different. And they weren't relying on Blum to make them better to make the playoffs. His .506 OPS with the White Sox could tell you that.

Edited July 31, 20178 yr by Dick Allen

I don't know, right when we traded for Geoff Blum I knew he was going to be a World Series hero.

Think of it this way, if the White Sox were in contention, and they traded for Miguel Gonzalez, or Derek Holland or Mike Pelfrey or Tyler Clippard and gave up anything better than Courtney Hawkins, how pissed would you be? And how much would you question the White Sox braintrust sanity thinking these were guys that could get them over the top?

 

Yeah, a return of value is far from likely...but that's probably what the Padres thought with Shields. Their "lotto ticket" turned out to be a top 100. My biggest thing is whether I ride guys like Holland or want to start to use my young arms in a meaningless stretch of games. Would you want those pitches on Holland's record or on your young arms? There's an argument for both.

Rodon and Shields for sure, Lopez gets the call-up, maybe Danish or Volstad, Holmberg and Beck can move to the rotation. Fulmer shouldn't be called up. Maybe Giolito. They have enough guys as options to cover the final 2 spots (or 3 if they want to do a 6-man rotation).

 

I'd be fine with Fulmer getting the call. At this point I am pretty convinced he is a reliever, but I have no problem giving him several starts down the stretch. Why not? Giolito - I'd keep him in AAA until that season is over and reassess then. I don't really want to see him in Chicago this year, except for maybe a start or 2 in September.

Anyone think if multiple rotation spots open that Jordan Stephens has a shot to be called up ? He is 24 and last year pitched 141 innings but only 60 so far this year but has been pretty damn good at AA. I know it's a long shot due to many factors .

Anyone think if multiple rotation spots open that Jordan Stephens has a shot to be called up ? He is 24 and last year pitched 141 innings but only 60 so far this year but has been pretty damn good at AA. I know it's a long shot due to many factors .

 

Capra loved that guy when he was working the minor leagues.

Think of it this way, if the White Sox were in contention, and they traded for Miguel Gonzalez, or Derek Holland or Mike Pelfrey or Tyler Clippard and gave up anything better than Courtney Hawkins, how pissed would you be? And how much would you question the White Sox braintrust sanity thinking these were guys that could get them over the top?

Yup. Is there any contender with a worse no.5 starter than Gonzalez/Holland/Pelfrey?

Think of it this way, if the White Sox were in contention, and they traded for Miguel Gonzalez, or Derek Holland or Mike Pelfrey or Tyler Clippard and gave up anything better than Courtney Hawkins, how pissed would you be? And how much would you question the White Sox braintrust sanity thinking these were guys that could get them over the top?

 

I see one case that is mildly compelling - you have a young phenom going up against innings limits and you want to skip him every other start.

 

At this point, if we trade one of these dudes it's a shrug. Getting rid of swarzak, jennings, kahnle, melky, and robertson flipped out most of our expriing assets. I won't cry if we can't get out MiGo. He will be a shrug.

Last day of non waiver deals, do you think any of these guys go?

I think Gonzo goes. He can help someone down the stretch.

Anyone think one of our middle infielders goes now or this Winter? We've got SS and 2B covered pretty well and I don't know where you'd find enough at bats for Yolmer, Salad, and Hanson.

Any new tweets regarding anyone on the roster?

I think Gonzo goes. He can help someone down the stretch.

Anyone think one of our middle infielders goes now or this Winter? We've got SS and 2B covered pretty well and I don't know where you'd find enough at bats for Yolmer, Salad, and Hanson.

 

I think it's just survival of the fittest for those guys. We could legitimately benefit from at least one of them turning into a consistent bench piece in the future, but can't pick out one specifically who is gonna do it, so the best use of them is probably just to let them fight and waive the one's who don't make it.

Any new tweets regarding anyone on the roster?

Nada

Yup. Is there any contender with a worse no.5 starter than Gonzalez/Holland/Pelfrey?

Gonzalez would just be 50 innings of wear they don't want to give to another pitcher they care about.

I said it elsewhere, but Gonzalez is the only guy worth anything. He should fit in a contending teams back end of the rotation. Also helps take innings (even though he won't really factor much into the post-season (given I would be shocked if he was a top 4 starter on any contender). That said, provides rest / inning relief and also those few starts he makes (over a hole for a #5 can help get someone a wild card, etc). Don't expect a lot for him, but could be someone who fits into the 25-30 range in our system (might not be though...his injury and struggles when he tried to battle through it likely impacted his value).

 

Holland / Pelfrey are way worse and don't deserve to be in the same sentence as Gonzalez.

If I were a GM of a contending team that needed left handed relief help, I would seriously consider trading for Holland and converting him to a reliever. He'd basically come for free anyway

I said it elsewhere, but Gonzalez is the only guy worth anything. He should fit in a contending teams back end of the rotation. Also helps take innings (even though he won't really factor much into the post-season (given I would be shocked if he was a top 4 starter on any contender). That said, provides rest / inning relief and also those few starts he makes (over a hole for a #5 can help get someone a wild card, etc). Don't expect a lot for him, but could be someone who fits into the 25-30 range in our system (might not be though...his injury and struggles when he tried to battle through it likely impacted his value).

 

Holland / Pelfrey are way worse and don't deserve to be in the same sentence as Gonzalez.

Yeah, I don't get anyone expecting Holland to be traded. His last 10 starts have been every bit as bad as James Shields' starts with the White Sox.

 

If the White Sox were actually trying to win, he would have been waived by now.

 

Gonzalez has been good since he came back, and if you could guarantee that the rest of the season, he might get you something interesting, but he does have streaks where he is awful, and he has been hurt and bad at times this year, so I don't think he nets you anything to be even moderately excited about and the Sox would have to eat money. As long as they are paying for him anyways, the offer has to at least be worth more than the innings he would eat.

Edited July 31, 20178 yr by Dick Allen

Yeah, I don't get anyone expecting Holland to be traded. His last 10 starts have been every bit as bad as James Shields' starts with the White Sox.

 

If the White Sox were actually trying to win, he would have been waived by now.

Sox might just want him to eat innings, but they might be better off sticking him in the pen for the next couple weeks and see if you could somehow get value out of him there.

Sox might just want him to eat innings, but they might be better off sticking him in the pen for the next couple weeks and see if you could somehow get value out of him there.

Not a bad idea.

Yup. Is there any contender with a worse no.5 starter than Gonzalez/Holland/Pelfrey?

Gonzalez doesn't even have to be thought of as a 5th starter, a 6th starter can be really useful down the stretch too, especially if a team has 1 pitcher on the DL. How many teams can expect to have 0 pitching injuries through August, September, and October? The Indians made a great run last year using their bullpen, but they had to do that because 2 of their starters got hurt, and in the end Miller and that pen finally broke in game 7. If all you did was save Andrew Miller or the rest of that bullpen 1-2 innings earlier in the series by having Gonzalez as a long man or having a slightly more reliable 6th starter who got called on when the injuries piled up, that might have put the trophy in a different city.