6 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

The question then becomes if money is the #1 reason, will the Sox offer the most money? Outside of Albert Belle it hasn't happened. Hahn says the money will be there.

I guess we'll find out soon enough but I'm not holding my breath or betting the house on the Sox signing any of the very top guys.

It's really hard to answer that question because some of the richest teams are also the best teams  so free agents cn have their cake and eat it too with a great contract and going to a winning team not to mention some of the most storied franchises in baseball history. The Sox history is just dismal.

I understand looking at the White Sox spending history, but using that alone to come to a conclusion is just lazy IMO. People said the same thing about the rebuild, and then it ended up happening. The White Sox have a dirt cheap payroll with many players on rookie deals. They can afford a Machado contract. They also had a top 5 payroll between 2006 and 2008. Jerry will spend if they have a chance to win. 

8 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It's really hard to answer that question because some of the richest teams are also the best teams  so free agents cn have their cake and eat it too with a great contract and going to a winning team not to mention some of the most storied franchises in baseball history. The Sox history is just dismal.

Sox history might be dismal compared to some of the other great teams, but I wonder if being a part of a new era on an original team that is supposed to win multiple championships like it hasn't done in history ever is just as compelling as going to a team that has great history, like the Yankees.

32 minutes ago, Scoots said:

Sox history might be dismal compared to some of the other great teams, but I wonder if being a part of a new era on an original team that is supposed to win multiple championships like it hasn't done in history ever is just as compelling as going to a team that has great history, like the Yankees.

But again, the question is where is the evidence any of this matters?  Manny Machado is not a historian.  He isn’t being asked to decide which team’s story is the coolest.  If the Sox offer him the best contract it’s hard for me to believe he would leave millions of real, U.S. dollars on the table because of factors as “soft” as history or quality of narrative.

Edited August 30, 20187 yr by 35thstreetswarm

15 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

But again, the question is where is the evidence any of this matters?  Manny Machado is not a historian.  He isn’t being asked to decide which team’s story is the coolest.  If the Sox offer him the best contract it’s hard for me to believe he would leave millions of real, U.S. dollars on the table because of factors as “soft” as history or quality of narrative.

His agent might be.  IMO, MM will not go to a team that is not ready to compete. He has been to Baltimore.  Now, if Sox bring up Eloy soon, and he hits, then it might look like we can compete next year.  At least we would have an argument.

3 hours ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

But again, the question is where is the evidence any of this matters?  Manny Machado is not a historian.  He isn’t being asked to decide which team’s story is the coolest.  If the Sox offer him the best contract it’s hard for me to believe he would leave millions of real, U.S. dollars on the table because of factors as “soft” as history or quality of narrative.

 

3 hours ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

 

OK the Sox history thing was just a sidebar to say they don't have the Yankee's or Red Sox or Dodgers feel as far as that goes. My main point was they have money they are winners and storied franchises. You'd have to be pretty ignorant of baseball history not to know the Yanks history. All those reasons are why many of us think Harper or Machado are long shots even if the money is equal . Even having the best offer isn't a guarantee they will come here and most of us doubters think the chance of the Sox having the best offer isn't so great either.

Edited August 30, 20187 yr by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

3 hours ago, oldsox said:

His agent might be.  IMO, MM will not go to a team that is not ready to compete. He has been to Baltimore.  Now, if Sox bring up Eloy soon, and he hits, then it might look like we can compete next year.  At least we would have an argument.

Machado is going to go to the team that pay him the most.  It really is that simple. 

Edited August 30, 20187 yr by ChiSox59

4 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Machado is going to go to the team that pay him the most.  It really is that simple. 

Same with Harper. Kenny Rogers(the singer, not the pitcher) comes into play here. "You gotta know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em"  If they're truly serious about both Machado/Harper they have to know they are spending AT LEAST $350 million to get them to talk. I'd imagine they won't go any more than $380-390 M. They aren't going to be the team that gives out the 1st 400 million dollar contract. 

38 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Machado is going to go to the team that pay him the most.  It really is that simple. 

This is what I am going to believe until proven otherwise.

20 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It's really hard to answer that question because some of the richest teams are also the best teams  so free agents cn have their cake and eat it too with a great contract and going to a winning team not to mention some of the most storied franchises in baseball history. The Sox history is just dismal.

Two of the biggest free agents in the past few years went to teams with worse history than the Sox. Pujols to Angels and Cano to Seattle.  They just ponied up money wise.

And it's not about richest teams, it's about owners willing to spend, they are all rich, the teams increase in value every year. 

On 8/29/2018 at 11:42 AM, 35thstreetswarm said:

I have an honest question for those of you who may follow free agent bidding wars/contract matters more closely than I do.  Is there really evidence that big-time MLB free agents (not lower-value, end-of-career type guys) turn down money, and accept clearly lower dollar offers for non-monetary reasons?  When has that actually happened? 

I ask because there is a prevailing belief among fans that we will have to "convince" big-name free agents to come here in some way beyond giving them the best monetary offer.  As in, they have to believe in Kopech, they have to like the direction of the rebuild, etc.  That seems dubious to me.  I think the question of whether we get Manny Machado/Bryce Harper boils down to whether our FO is willing to outbid the competition, but I am open to being convinced otherwise.

It happens with 30+ year old free agents who can only sign short deals and dont have much time left.  But with guys like Machado and Harper at their age, this is their one chance for the biggest contract they will ever see, it's always about money. Plus, the deals are 8-10 years so theres no guarantee a team you sign with will stay good.

12 minutes ago, LittleHurt05 said:

Two of the biggest free agents in the past few years went to teams with worse history than the Sox. Pujols to Angels and Cano to Seattle.  They just ponied up money wise.

And it's not about richest teams, it's about owners willing to spend, they are all rich, the teams increase in value every year. 

Not to mention Arod and Jon Lester.

For "Hawk Day" on Sunday, do you want to be in the stadium to honor him or would it make more sense to watch his last game on tv and listen to his call?

8 hours ago, joejoedairy said:

For "Hawk Day" on Sunday, do you want to be in the stadium to honor him or would it make more sense to watch his last game on tv and listen to his call?

It's not his last game lol so go to the stadium.

Edited August 31, 20187 yr by soxfan2014

10 hours ago, LittleHurt05 said:

Two of the biggest free agents in the past few years went to teams with worse history than the Sox. Pujols to Angels and Cano to Seattle.  They just ponied up money wise.

And it's not about richest teams, it's about owners willing to spend, they are all rich, the teams increase in value every year. 

They both had already won World Series and without doing the research that Pujols deal was just ridiculous for a guy without too many good years left in him. Once you win championships everything after that is gravy like taking the best offer. Neither team has benefited at all from handing out those kind of contracts for players  only motivated by money at that point in their careers.

I have to think both Machado and Harper want to win a World Series or 2 along with the big payday. To pretend that money is their only motivation is selling the player short.

Edited August 31, 20187 yr by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

31 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

They both had already won World Series and without doing the research that Pujols deal was just ridiculous for a guy without too many good years left in him. Once you win championships everything after that is gravy like taking the best offer. Neither team has benefited at all from handing out those kind of contracts for players  only motivated by money at that point in their careers.

I have to think both Machado and Harper want to win a World Series or 2 along with the big payday. To pretend that money is their only motivation is selling the player short.

The Mariners have never even been to the World Series.  The Angels were about 13 years past from winning it.  The Pujols deal being so ridiculous is the whole point.  When the big big money gets offered, winning takes a back seat.  It's not selling the player short.  They are human beings.  We all take jobs looking to make the most money possible, so do they.  It's also about respect, being paid what you think you deserve compared to your peers.  

51 minutes ago, LittleHurt05 said:

The Mariners have never even been to the World Series.  The Angels were about 13 years past from winning it.  The Pujols deal being so ridiculous is the whole point.  When the big big money gets offered, winning takes a back seat.  It's not selling the player short.  They are human beings.  We all take jobs looking to make the most money possible, so do they.  It's also about respect, being paid what you think you deserve compared to your peers.  

He meant Cano and Pujols had already won a world series. Meaning that going to a team to experience a world series wasn't as big of a priority as guys who have never won it.

Edited August 31, 20187 yr by soxfan2014

49 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

He meant Cano and Pujols had already won a world series. Meaning that going to a team to experience a world series wasn't as big of a priority as guys who have never won it.

Whoops.  I see that now, but my point remains.  If they were signing 1 to 2 year deals, then it's a different ballgame.  But when it's very possible this is the last contract you will ever sign, you maximize that $$$$.  

It's why Mike Hampton signed to pitch in the worst pitchers park in MLB history, he didn't have a ring yet.  But when you can become the highest paid player in MLB history, you do it.

18 minutes ago, LittleHurt05 said:

Whoops.  I see that now, but my point remains.  If they were signing 1 to 2 year deals, then it's a different ballgame.  But when it's very possible this is the last contract you will ever sign, you maximize that $$$$.  

It's why Mike Hampton signed to pitch in the worst pitchers park in MLB history, he didn't have a ring yet.  But when you can become the highest paid player in MLB history, you do it.

Name from the past.  I still remember his first Colorado presser.  He said he signed with Rockies because of the Denver school system, not the money.

1 hour ago, LittleHurt05 said:

Whoops.  I see that now, but my point remains.  If they were signing 1 to 2 year deals, then it's a different ballgame.  But when it's very possible this is the last contract you will ever sign, you maximize that $$$$.  

It's why Mike Hampton signed to pitch in the worst pitchers park in MLB history, he didn't have a ring yet.  But when you can become the highest paid player in MLB history, you do it.

Its also very possible with Harper and Machado being young free agents that this will not be the last contract they ever sign. Nowadays players put opt outs in their contracts. To me that just maximizes their chances to go to a winning team . You get that ring  have a good year or two while being paid very well in a front loaded contract, opt out, then go for the longer term money . We could argue this all day but to me the chances are slim to none we get either Machado or Harper . We'll just have to wait and see.

2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Its also very possible with Harper and Machado being young free agents that this will not be the last contract they ever sign. Nowadays players put opt outs in their contracts. To me that just maximizes their chances to go to a winning team . You get that ring  have a good year or two while being paid very well in a front loaded contract, opt out, then go for the longer term money . We could argue this all day but to me the chances are slim to none we get either Machado or Harper . We'll just have to wait and see.

Opt outs will be a huge part of their contracts IMO.

2 hours ago, soxfan2014 said:

He meant Cano and Pujols had already won a world series. Meaning that going to a team to experience a world series wasn't as big of a priority as guys who have never won it.

Thanks . Yea thats what I meant . I said it in my very 1st sentence. I couldn't have been more clear. I also said neither team had benefited meaning neither the Angels or Mariners had won a World Series after signing Pujols and Cano. Some people are in such a hurry to argue their side they don't even notice the other argument. If he had read what I wrote I don't see how he could completely whiff on my meaning.

Edited August 31, 20187 yr by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

6 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Opt outs will be a huge part of their contracts IMO.

Not a doubt in my mind about that.

1 hour ago, oldsox said:

Name from the past.  I still remember his first Colorado presser.  He said he signed with Rockies because of the Denver school system, not the money.

That's it!   We are doing this all wrong.  We should just hype up the high quality of the Chicago Public School system and we will get every free agent.

Oh crap, we are screwed.  

18 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Opt outs will be a huge part of their contracts IMO.

And why do players like opt outs so much??

$$$$$$$$$$$$$