14 hours ago, turnin' two said:

That is definitely true, but I have to say, I would rather he not give in and start swinging at bad pitches.  Unless you are Vlad Guerrero, swinging at pitches out of the zone usually ends up in a bad result for the hitter.

I think that it depends upon where the borderline pitch is. I've been advocating that he take the "borderline" outside pitches to the opposite field. The outside pitch is easiest to hit in the direction. With these dramatic shifts, that side of field is just inviting a hitter to go that way. When he has two strikes, those pitches should not be taken, but rather hit for singles and doubles. He probably has enough power to even take a few of those pitches, out of the park.

1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Their list seems bad this year.  I don't get it.  Some really puzzling decisions.  In general they seem way too willing to use projections for some guys (Tatis Jr) and then relying too much on recency bias for others (Odubel Harrara).  

I don't think there are many GMs that would trade Harrara straight up for Moncada.  In fact I don't think there is a single one.

Why? If the Sox had Herrera and were offered Moncada 1 for 1 I'd take that deal. A 4 WAR CF is great, but Moncada's potential is so much more.

12 minutes ago, Dam8610 said:

Why? If the Sox had Herrera and were offered Moncada 1 for 1 I'd take that deal. A 4 WAR CF is great, but Moncada's potential is so much more.

Dave Cameron didn't do the rankings this year they left it to this guy who used to work for the Braves.  I can't really quibble with it too much as it's obvious the dude has legit evaluation chops but having Herrera that high just doesn't make any sense.  You're talking about a guy similar to Eaton in the absolute prime of his career (26-28), where most of his value is tied up in being a gold glove level OF.   That seems inherently risky for various reasons, including injury risk, inaccuracy in defensive metrics and aging.

Moncada is 23, and most of value is offensive.  Again, I don't think a single GM in the league makes that deal straight up.  If they were both 23 I could see a case for it.

1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Dave Cameron didn't do the rankings this year they left it to this guy who used to work for the Braves.  I can't really quibble with it too much as it's obvious the dude has legit evaluation chops but having Herrera that high just doesn't make any sense.  You're talking about a guy similar to Eaton in the absolute prime of his career (26-28), where most of his value is tied up in being a gold glove level OF.   That seems inherently risky for various reasons, including injury risk, inaccuracy in defensive metrics and aging.

Moncada is 23, and most of value is offensive.  Again, I don't think a single GM in the league makes that deal straight up.  If they were both 23 I could see a case for it.

Ah, my mistake, I thought you were saying no GM who had Herrera would trade him for Moncada.

2 hours ago, Lillian said:

I think that it depends upon where the borderline pitch is. I've been advocating that he take the "borderline" outside pitches to the opposite field. The outside pitch is easiest to hit in the direction. With these dramatic shifts, that side of field is just inviting a hitter to go that way. When he has two strikes, those pitches should not be taken, but rather hit for singles and doubles. He probably has enough power to even take a few of those pitches, out of the park.

If I am his hitting coach (I'm not) I would never advocate a young hitter with a discerning eye expand the zone because umpires aren't getting it right.  You would have to really study the film and make sure he isn't taking pitches that are legitimate strikes, but his eye may end up being one of his best assets.  I feel like he is getting the benefit of the doubt 0% of the time right now, but if he stays disciplined, that will change. 

2 hours ago, turnin' two said:

If I am his hitting coach (I'm not) I would never advocate a young hitter with a discerning eye expand the zone because umpires aren't getting it right.  You would have to really study the film and make sure he isn't taking pitches that are legitimate strikes, but his eye may end up being one of his best assets.  I feel like he is getting the benefit of the doubt 0% of the time right now, but if he stays disciplined, that will change. 

I agree with this. Everything about Yoan at the plate is pretty advanced, but it will have great returns if he clicks. I probably wouldn't mess with him at all. I don't care about the k's. Stay selective, pick your pitches and turn n burn when you get what you want. Don't worry about the k's. That will sort itself out as you get more familiar with the zone and the umps start giving you the benefit of the doubt. 

3 hours ago, turnin' two said:

If I am his hitting coach (I'm not) I would never advocate a young hitter with a discerning eye expand the zone because umpires aren't getting it right.  You would have to really study the film and make sure he isn't taking pitches that are legitimate strikes, but his eye may end up being one of his best assets.  I feel like he is getting the benefit of the doubt 0% of the time right now, but if he stays disciplined, that will change. 

Please note that I was referring to "borderline" pitches. I don't think that it's a good idea to be taking borderline pitches, with two strikes, especially outside pitches, which are very hittable.

23 hours ago, Jerksticks said:

So i’m In my mid 30’s and I recently started trolling a cubs fan forum for old time’s sake.  What you said here is similar to something I’d say over there:

 

SecretJerksticks: “Obviously Lester was never an ace and we all expected him to be a solid #3 this year since he doesn’t have dominant stuff, so what he’s doing this year is frickin awesome.  Enough can’t be said for a guy who can’t even throw a man’s strike and just nibbles off the corners all cheap.  He’s kicking ass this year out of nowhere and to me is our mvp so far.”

 

The above was an exaggeration and would be a bit obvious but it hides a bunch of insults within the guise of fandom.  

Ray Durham comment fees this way.  Well done and good pick but I’m on to you 

You think I'm a troll just because I'm not looking at Moncada through rose colored glasses?  Wow... I don't know what to say about that.

Did you ever see Durham play?  If you think comparing Moncada to him is an insult to Yoan, then you OBVIOUSLY never did.  Ray was a damn good player.  He was an exciting player, and he was a fun player to watch.  I see all of those attributes potentially in Yoan, but I just don't see the potential superstardom that many others see.  I could be wrong, but only time will tell.

9 hours ago, daggins said:

He's not in 21-30 either. I don't think he's on there. 

He was listed in the honorable mention column along with Tim Anderson and Eloy. You wouldn't know by reading around here, but Moncada's stock is way down with the national guys. The guy has over 550 career at bats and has ops of 735. That is nothing to write home about.

The Sox don't have a single player in the FG top 50. Fernando Tatis is listed at #39. That tells me all I need to know about the state of the Sox rebuild right there. 

5 hours ago, turnin' two said:

If I am his hitting coach (I'm not) I would never advocate a young hitter with a discerning eye expand the zone because umpires aren't getting it right.  You would have to really study the film and make sure he isn't taking pitches that are legitimate strikes, but his eye may end up being one of his best assets.  I feel like he is getting the benefit of the doubt 0% of the time right now, but if he stays disciplined, that will change. 

Took the words right out of my mouth. The worst thing you can do to a naturally patient hitter is tell him to be aggressive. 

5 minutes ago, tlongo81@gmail.com said:

He was listed in the honorable mention column along with Tim Anderson and Eloy. You wouldn't know by reading around here, but Moncada's stock is way down with the national guys. The guy has over 550 career at bats and has ops of 735. That is nothing to write home about.

 The Sox don't have a single player in the FG top 50. Fernando Tatis is listed at #39. That tells me all I need to know about the state of the Sox rebuild right there. 

Then pack it up, go root for another team. If the rebuild has failed, you might as well stop wasting your time on this team. Just don't come back once we're good and you realized you judged extremely prematurely. 

28 minutes ago, Donaldo said:

You think I'm a troll just because I'm not looking at Moncada through rose colored glasses?  Wow... I don't know what to say about that.

Did you ever see Durham play?  If you think comparing Moncada to him is an insult to Yoan, then you OBVIOUSLY never did.  Ray was a damn good player.  He was an exciting player, and he was a fun player to watch.  I see all of those attributes potentially in Yoan, but I just don't see the potential superstardom that many others see.  I could be wrong, but only time will tell.

There are some downright delusional posters here. Below is an example. That projection would be one of the greatest seasons in mlb history. 

 

• Members
•  100
• 1,788 posts

• Report post
•  
•  

Posted Thursday at 09:32 PM (edited)

I've been arguing with people on a different sports board about Moncada. This is the way I see it:

Moncada has "Best position player in the game" potential. 

His potential is Who is better Trout or Moncada? 

His floor is Trevor Story. 

I don't know where he's ultimately going to fall on this spectrum, but if he hits his ceiling, I could see this as his career year

.310/.405/1.085

43HR 45 SB 38 2B 13 3B

130+RBI

And a GG

39 minutes ago, Donaldo said:

You think I'm a troll just because I'm not looking at Moncada through rose colored glasses?  Wow... I don't know what to say about that.

Did you ever see Durham play?  If you think comparing Moncada to him is an insult to Yoan, then you OBVIOUSLY never did.  Ray was a damn good player.  He was an exciting player, and he was a fun player to watch.  I see all of those attributes potentially in Yoan, but I just don't see the potential superstardom that many others see.  I could be wrong, but only time will tell.

Durham only hit 20 HR in a season twice, once was 20 on the spot and once he hit 26. Moncada will hit 20-25 this season. He has way more power than Durham ever had. Moncada in his prime, when the Sox are good will be a perrenial 30/30 guy. The thing that separates Moncada and Durham is that Moncada has way more power. Other than that, they are good comps. I think Durham with Cano's power is a good comp. He's probably going to put up seasons of .370-.410 OBP too. 

Edited July 19, 20187 yr by Jack Parkman

8 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Durham only hit 20 HR in a season twice, once was 20 on the spot and once he hit 26. Moncada will hit 20-25 this season. He has way more power than Durham ever had. Moncada in his prime, when the Sox are good will be an annual 30/30 guy. 

Yeah, that's the big difference for me. Ray Durham was one of my favorite players when he was here, but to compare him to Moncada does a huge disservice to Moncada's power. Moncada just hits the ball with so much more authority than Ray ever did, and the ball just jumps off of his bat. Hopefully he'll pick up where he left off before the break, because July Yoan Moncada extrapolated over a season is an all-star and in the MVP discussion.

36 minutes ago, Donaldo said:

You think I'm a troll just because I'm not looking at Moncada through rose colored glasses?  Wow... I don't know what to say about that.

Did you ever see Durham play?  If you think comparing Moncada to him is an insult to Yoan, then you OBVIOUSLY never did.  Ray was a damn good player.  He was an exciting player, and he was a fun player to watch.  I see all of those attributes potentially in Yoan, but I just don't see the potential superstardom that many others see.  I could be wrong, but only time will tell.

I saw Ray play. While being a pretty good player,  he was nothing special. 

Again, the guy had a career OPS+ of 104. Yoan is already at 102. In his first 600 ABs, Yo has already equaled what Ray did for the balance of his career.  At this stage of his career Ray was still about an 85 OPS+ player.  As of today in parts of 3 seasons Yo has played in 149 games and 634 PAs, so basically a full season.  He put up 20 Homer's, 28 doubles, and 7 triples.  That is 55 XBH in basically his first season. Ray hit that many Homers twice in his career. He put up that many XBH 5 times in his whole career.

I see a player that is already at a Durham level.  Again this is his floor. He is already there.

If he grows into his power and gains respect for his eye, forget Ray Durham's basic self, we are talking about Robbie Alomar. We are talking about a perpetual all-star. 

Are we able to block posters on the new version of Soxtalk?  I think I’ve had more than enough of Tom Longo’s endless Moncada whining.

36 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Are we able to block posters on the new version of Soxtalk?  I think I’ve had more than enough of Tom Longo’s endless Moncada whining.

Later dude. Also, that is not my name. 

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

I saw Ray play. While being a pretty good player,  he was nothing special. 

Again, the guy had a career OPS+ of 104. Yoan is already at 102. In his first 600 ABs, Yo has already equaled what Ray did for the balance of his career.  At this stage of his career Ray was still about an 85 OPS+ player.  As of today in parts of 3 seasons Yo has played in 149 games and 634 PAs, so basically a full season.  He put up 20 Homer's, 28 doubles, and 7 triples.  That is 55 XBH in basically his first season. Ray hit that many Homers twice in his career. He put up that many XBH 5 times in his whole career.

I see a player that is already at a Durham level.  Again this is his floor. He is already there.

If he grows into his power and gains respect for his eye, forget Ray Durham's basic self, we are talking about Robbie Alomar. We are talking about a perpetual all-star. 

Ray may not have hit as many HR but he had a higher overall slugging%. Today's game is swinging for the fences. Ray probably could have done that too if he didn't care about strikeouts. He struck out roughly half as many times as Moncada has with the walks being roughly the same.

 Not to say Moncada won't improve but the current comparison is there.

Edited July 19, 20187 yr by ptatc

55 minutes ago, Tony said:

You can select an ignore feature if you go to their profile, and it works great.

Can we make it so nobody can ignore anybody?  This is Soxtalk.  You have to jump into the jungle and hear all points of view.  

16 hours ago, tlongo81@gmail.com said:

He was listed in the honorable mention column along with Tim Anderson and Eloy. You wouldn't know by reading around here, but Moncada's stock is way down with the national guys. The guy has over 550 career at bats and has ops of 735. That is nothing to write home about.

The Sox don't have a single player in the FG top 50. Fernando Tatis is listed at #39. That tells me all I need to know about the state of the Sox rebuild right there. 

Just a shocking take from you, gmail. 

 

It’s scary that this kid is nearly a 3 WAR player right now despite the offensive flaws he came into the league with.  He’s going to be fucking stud in a year or two no matter how impatient Tom Longo & the others may be.

Not a huge fan of Nolan's writing but he's spot on there.   Yoan is a player that traditional stats cannot properly measure.

11 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Not a huge fan of Nolan's writing but he's spot on there.   Yoan is a player that traditional stats cannot properly measure.

And it explains why those who don't like him are often older/traditional

Edited July 19, 20187 yr by Jose Abreu

38 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Not a huge fan of Nolan's writing but he's spot on there.   Yoan is a player that traditional stats cannot properly measure.

He is also one you have to watch to get what his impact looks like.  He changes the game just by being in the line up.,