39 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Also people might be down on Machado's lack of hustle but look at his games played stats the last 5 years. He rarely misses a game and its far superior to Harpers. When you play that many games per year like Machado there will be times you coast because the season is a grind. The dude shows up to play every day. A young superstar offensively and defensively not having an injury history and being on the field every day is HUGE !

This is all true. Prior to the hustle parts though I read about people being negative on signing Machado because his relatively lower walk totals means when he loses a step he might become more of a .780 OPS manny of 2017 than the .900 ops manny of last year.

I like manny, but something that has been brought up before.

2 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

For a team that has never shelled out a 100+ million contract, to suggest that we would dish out (2) likely $300+ million contracts in one offseason is insanity. 

Frankly, I would be concerned if our rebuilding plan was centered around spending $600+ million on two players to fill holes. That is just not prudent to building a winning roster. 

I don't know that any team has ever tried committing $600 million to two players in an offseason for winning a title. Could be a winning strategy!

It would be awesome if Manny and Bryce call each other and decide they want to play together. Who can realistically afford both besides the Phils and WSOX?

I think they will genuinely go hard after both and then adjust based on reaction and pursue the more likely. I still don't think they sign either, but i'm encouraged that the early buzz is SPEND.

1 minute ago, yesterday333 said:

So you are saying if we sign MM we will pull the offer from Harper?

For my two cents, I could see us putting our offers on the table to both, telling each of them that the first to sign gets the contract, and doing that.

4 minutes ago, yesterday333 said:

So you are saying if we sign MM we will pull the offer from Harper?

Yes. 100% and its pretty obvious. 

7 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

Less likely due to money.

I think the other player becomes more interested, however.  Harper probably more likely to sign with the Sox if they prove they're not messing around by signing MM, or visa versa.  Whether or not Jerry is willing to spend $600M in one offseason is another thing.  

Just now, Orlando said:

It would be awesome if Manny and Bryce call each other and decide they want to play together. Who can realistically afford both besides the Phils and WSOX?

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/an-estimate-of-every-teams-payroll-room-2/

 

This gives some idea. Basically, a bunch of rebuilding teams, the Sox, Phils, Twins, and the big boys (LAD and NYY). It'd be interesting if the Jays decided on a short rebuild, they have tons of space.

6 minutes ago, yesterday333 said:

So you are saying if we sign MM we will pull the offer from Harper?

 

Having interest in both isn't about signing both. It's hoping you can land one. No way they dish out money for both.

Can we please stop fantasizing about signing both. The front office would not do such a thing, and it wouldn't be a good, or wise move. Many of us have suggested that they could very well aggressively go after both, with the idea of signing one. That makes sense, but the notion that J. R. would actually OK signing both, is just nuts, even if they both had an interest in coming to the Sox.  

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

I think the other player becomes more interested, however.  Harper probably more likely to sign with the Sox if they prove they're not messing around by signing MM, or visa versa.  Whether or not Jerry is willing to spend $600M in one offseason is another thing.  

Yes, that last part is the key.

Just now, Lillian said:

Can we please stop fantasizing about signing both. The front office would not do such a thing, and it wouldn't be a good, or wise move. Many of us have suggested that they could very well aggressively go after both, with the idea of signing one. That makes sense, but the notion that J. R. would actually OK signing both, is just nuts, even if they both had an interest in coming to the Sox.  

People keep saying they want to sign both together due to the headline or quote. It's all about wanting to sign one of them.

Just now, soxfan2014 said:

Yes, that last part is the key.

I was also told Jerry would never allow a rebuild, and that he'd never spend top dollar on a international free agent.  Both things have occurred the last couple years, so I'm not totally ruling it out, though I admit the odds would be very long. 

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

I was also told Jerry would never allow a rebuild, and that he'd never spend top dollar on a international free agent.  Both things have occurred the last couple years, so I'm not totally ruling it out, though I admit the odds would be very long. 

I could see signing one premium free agent to be a part of our rebuilding plan, but two is out of the question at this point. 

11 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I think the other player becomes more interested, however.  Harper probably more likely to sign with the Sox if they prove they're not messing around by signing MM, or visa versa.  Whether or not Jerry is willing to spend $600M in one offseason is another thing.  

Its not happening and I think you have to be careful to make sure players know you are "interested" in them. Cash matters but I presume there are going to ultimately be a couple offers all in the same ball park, so than the pitch becomes more important.  

8 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I was also told Jerry would never allow a rebuild, and that he'd never spend top dollar on a international free agent.  Both things have occurred the last couple years, so I'm not totally ruling it out, though I admit the odds would be very long. 

Yes...agree that it's stupid and financially irresponsible, but the key to get Jerry to "OK" a multi-year rebuild might have been to dangle a couple LARGE pieces of candy at the end of the wait.  Jerry doesn't like losing and convincing him to lose for several years was not easy--it's why it took them so long to commit to it.  I'm sure watching the last couple years has made him grow uneasy about his product/franchise value.  The fact that their payroll is down to almost zero yet in-line with one of the most lucrative FA classes we've seen in years might not be much of a coincidence.  Even if it's not Machado AND Harper, it could be 1 of them, plus a couple other big names.  

1 minute ago, FT35 said:

Yes...agree that it's stupid and financially irresponsible, but the key to get Jerry to "OK" a multi-year rebuild might have been to dangle a couple LARGE pieces of candy at the end of the wait.  Jerry doesn't like losing and convincing him to lose for several years was not easy--it's why it took them so long to commit to it.  I'm sure watching the last couple years has made him grow uneasy about his product/franchise value.  The fact that their payroll is down to almost zero yet in-line with one of the most lucrative FA classes we've seen in years might not be much of a coincidence.  Even if it's not Machado AND Harper, it could be 1 of them, plus a couple other big names.  

I think this free agent class is actually far more underwhelming than predicted. Donaldson no doubt had a down year, as did many players hitting free agency. Past Harper/Machado/Corbin/Keuchel/Grandal/Kimbrel there are not loads of players I would expect to sign for more than $50 million. 

1 minute ago, Chisoxfn said:

Its not happening and I think you have to be careful to make sure players know you are "interested" in them. Cash matters but I presume there are going to ultimately be a couple offers all in the same ball park, so than the pitch becomes more important.  

 

9 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

I could see signing one premium free agent to be a part of our rebuilding plan, but two is out of the question at this point. 

Like I said, the odds are long, and its very unlikely.  But I don't really think stating things that are unknown in absolutes is really necessary.  I do think that if one comes off the board early to the Sox, the other one would theoretically be more interested in the Sox if they keep their offer out there.  All hypothetical and purely spitballing - I don't actually think it will happen.  

16 minutes ago, Lillian said:

Can we please stop fantasizing about signing both. The front office would not do such a thing, and it wouldn't be a good, or wise move. Many of us have suggested that they could very well aggressively go after both, with the idea of signing one. That makes sense, but the notion that J. R. would actually OK signing both, is just nuts, even if they both had an interest in coming to the Sox.  

LOL this place is insanity today. I tried to stop it by saying its 1,000,000 to1 we sign both and 100 to 1 to sign just one because those guys might want early opt outs as young as they are and it doesn't fit the rebuild to allow an early opt out. Anyone expecting an 8-10 year deal without an opt out or 2 better do a reality check. The earliest the Sox might do in an opt out is after 4 yrs to fit their window . Signing one with an opt out after less than 4 years would be crazy because we still might not be contending by then. To sign then lose them right when we hit the contention window is nuts.

14 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

I think this free agent class is actually far more underwhelming than predicted. Donaldson no doubt had a down year, as did many players hitting free agency. Past Harper/Machado/Corbin/Keuchel/Grandal/Kimbrel there are not loads of players I would expect to sign for more than $50 million. 

This class was also supposed to have Blackmon and a lot of people (here at least) predicted Kershaw would opt-out and be an option for the Yankees.

FWIW Morosi was just on MLB Network and said he fully expects the Sox to wind up with one of them. If he is that confident in his source then Jerry must be ready to dish it out. 

Edited November 5, 20187 yr by Sockin

Wow. Man, really wish it was someone other than Morosi saying this (or depending on where you stand, maybe you do like that it's morosi)

6 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

LOL this place is insanity today. I tried to stop it by saying its 1,000,000 to1 we sign both and 100 to 1 to sign just one because those guys might want early opt outs as young as they are and it doesn't fit the rebuild to allow an early opt out. Anyone expecting an 8-10 year deal without an opt out or 2 better do a reality check. The earliest the Sox might do in an opt out is after 4 yrs to fit their window . Signing one with an opt out after less than 4 years would be crazy because we still might not be contending by then. To sign then lose them right when we hit the contention window is nuts.

I think the opt-outs would come after their age 30/31/32 age seasons. So 4 years guaranteed to be around.

Edited November 5, 20187 yr by soxfan2014

Just now, Sockin said:

FWIW Morosi was just on MLB Network and said he full expects the Sox to wind up with one of them. If he is that confident in his source then Jerry must be ready to dish it out. 

Even if one was an optimistic Sox fan, I would not go that far. All it takes is another team or two to drive the bidding to an uncomfortable level for us to be playing at. 

Surprise suitors could exist, trades could be made, etc. You just cannot be that sure about anything at this stage of the offseason. Heck, maybe neither Machado or Harper want to play in Chicago? Who knows?

1 minute ago, Sockin said:

FWIW Morosi was just on MLB Network and said he full expects the Sox to wind up with one of them. If he is that confident in his source then Jerry must be ready to dish it out. 

Morosi isn't exactly a trusted source. He's guessing like the rest of us. If you asked him do you expect Manny or Harper to sign without some early opt outs and if you think they get the early opt out how do they fit in the Sox plan he would be stumped.