3 minutes ago, fathom said:

Yet in this case, we have no evidence at all that Bryce and Manny even like the organization. 

We have no evidence that Bryce or Manny like ANY organization, unless you actually believe the Nightengale reports that they've had agreements with the Phillies/Yankees respectively for months 

Although the Cubs news is based on Dan Bernstein. He's been pretty off when it's come to baseball before. Laughably off.

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

Although the Cubs news is based on Dan Bernstein. He's been pretty off when it's come to baseball before. Laughably off.

I wouldn't be shocked at all if the Cubs are discussing a deal with Harper.

Edited November 16, 20187 yr by soxfan2014

1 minute ago, soxfan2014 said:

I wouldn't be shocked at all if the Cubs are discussing a deal with Harper.

Maybe not, but if Levine and Nightengale are considered questionable, Bernstein is a more than a couple of notches below them, at least when it comes to MLB.

Ok, on one hand, I REALLY want Harper. I won't even lie about it. Do it, spend the money, yada yada yada.

But when I step back and think about it logically, I see how it could become regrettable.

In seven years, the guy has exceeded a .900 OPS twice. Do we really want to spend $40 million a year on a guy who's OPS will probably be in the .800s? That's good for us, but is it $40 million dollars a year good? I don't know.

Look at the albatrosses that are the Pujols and Cabrera contracts. While they were older, when they signed their megamillions contracts, they were each undoubtedly the best hitters in baseball. Yet, in three years, the Angels will give $30 million to a 41 year old who had an OPS of .684 the last two seasons. In five years, the Tigers will pay $32 million to a 40 year old who played 38 games last year, and had an OPS of .728 the year before. Do we want to put that chain around our own necks with a guy who will be 36 by the time his likely contract ends, and who is not nearly as indisputable the talent as the two I just mentioned?

Think about our prospects. What if Eloy, Cease, Robert, Moncada, Kopech or anyone else turns out to be a monster? Are we going to have any chance to resign them? Harper would possibly be here after all of those guys leave. If we want to build a lasting force in the AL Central, is this really the path to get there?

Even after all that, I've gotta say I'm still checking this thread daily to root for us signing him, but I've got some weird feelings in the back of my head.

Machado at 3rd is clearly the better long term fit.  

4 minutes ago, The Sir said:

Ok, on one hand, I REALLY want Harper. I won't even lie about it. Do it, spend the money, yada yada yada.

But when I step back and think about it logically, I see how it could become regrettable.

In seven years, the guy has exceeded a .900 OPS twice. Do we really want to spend $40 million a year on a guy who's OPS will probably be in the .800s? That's good for us, but is it $40 million dollars a year good? I don't know.

Look at the albatrosses that are the Pujols and Cabrera contracts. While they were older, when they signed their megamillions contracts, they were each undoubtedly the best hitters in baseball. Yet, in three years, the Angels will give $30 million to a 41 year old who had an OPS of .684 the last two seasons. In five years, the Tigers will pay $32 million to a 40 year old who played 38 games last year, and had an OPS of .728 the year before. Do we want to put that chain around our own necks with a guy who will be 36 by the time his likely contract ends, and who is not nearly as indisputable the talent as the two I just mentioned?

Think about our prospects. What if Eloy, Cease, Robert, Moncada, Kopech or anyone else turns out to be a monster? Are we going to have any chance to resign them? Harper would possibly be here after all of those guys leave. If we want to build a lasting force in the AL Central, is this really the path to get there?

Even after all that, I've gotta say I'm still checking this thread daily to root for us signing him, but I've got some weird feelings in the back of my head.

Miggy and Pujols were each about 32 years old when they signed their most recent contracts. Harper is 26. TWENTY SIX. A player of his magnitude entering free agency at his age is almost unprecedented. The Sox should give him whatever he wants, it would be 100% worth it if they win a championship with him on the team.

Edited November 16, 20187 yr by Whitesox27

24 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

The Sox are like Iowa trying to recruit against Kentucky and Duke. They will be all polite and say they really love your program, and the direction it is going, but will never pick you.

Let’s just offer his dad a spot on the team in true recruiting fashion. I’ve seen him throw BP, it’s not much different than Shields.

10 minutes ago, The Sir said:

Ok, on one hand, I REALLY want Harper. I won't even lie about it. Do it, spend the money, yada yada yada.

But when I step back and think about it logically, I see how it could become regrettable.

In seven years, the guy has exceeded a .900 OPS twice. Do we really want to spend $40 million a year on a guy who's OPS will probably be in the .800s? That's good for us, but is it $40 million dollars a year good? I don't know.

Look at the albatrosses that are the Pujols and Cabrera contracts. While they were older, when they signed their megamillions contracts, they were each undoubtedly the best hitters in baseball. Yet, in three years, the Angels will give $30 million to a 41 year old who had an OPS of .684 the last two seasons. In five years, the Tigers will pay $32 million to a 40 year old who played 38 games last year, and had an OPS of .728 the year before. Do we want to put that chain around our own necks with a guy who will be 36 by the time his likely contract ends, and who is not nearly as indisputable the talent as the two I just mentioned?

Think about our prospects. What if Eloy, Cease, Robert, Moncada, Kopech or anyone else turns out to be a monster? Are we going to have any chance to resign them? Harper would possibly be here after all of those guys leave. If we want to build a lasting force in the AL Central, is this really the path to get there?

Even after all that, I've gotta say I'm still checking this thread daily to root for us signing him, but I've got some weird feelings in the back of my head.

Exactly.  I can't believe how many people on hear are foaming at the mouth over the idea of Harper.  He has the ceiling as the best player in baseball each year, but he is not consistent.  Pujols and Cabrera were very consistently MVP caliber players when they got their big contracts.  Even though he's younger, I do not feel good about the idea of bringing him in for a record breaking contract.  If he repeated his performances from 2013-2018 in 2019-2024 would that be worth 40M a year to you all?  To me, I don't think I'd be happy with that at 30M a year.

2 minutes ago, Markbilliards said:

Exactly.  I can't believe how many people on hear are foaming at the mouth over the idea of Harper.  He has the ceiling as the best player in baseball each year, but he is not consistent.  Pujols and Cabrera were very consistently MVP caliber players when they got their big contracts.  Even though he's younger, I do not feel good about the idea of bringing him in for a record breaking contract.  If he repeated his performances from 2013-2018 in 2019-2024 would that be worth 40M a year to you all?  To me, I don't think I'd be happy with that at 30M a year.

Biggest concerns with him is his awful defense, with a lot of whispers of him moving to 1b eventually. That’s a ton of money to pay for a 1b in today’s environment.  To me, Harper would be a bigger factor in terms of public relations.  With that said, I think there’s zero chance he comes to the Sox and risks being on a non-competitive team with a weak fan base.

27 minutes ago, The Sir said:

Ok, on one hand, I REALLY want Harper. I won't even lie about it. Do it, spend the money, yada yada yada.

But when I step back and think about it logically, I see how it could become regrettable.

In seven years, the guy has exceeded a .900 OPS twice. Do we really want to spend $40 million a year on a guy who's OPS will probably be in the .800s? That's good for us, but is it $40 million dollars a year good? I don't know.

Look at the albatrosses that are the Pujols and Cabrera contracts. While they were older, when they signed their megamillions contracts, they were each undoubtedly the best hitters in baseball. Yet, in three years, the Angels will give $30 million to a 41 year old who had an OPS of .684 the last two seasons. In five years, the Tigers will pay $32 million to a 40 year old who played 38 games last year, and had an OPS of .728 the year before. Do we want to put that chain around our own necks with a guy who will be 36 by the time his likely contract ends, and who is not nearly as indisputable the talent as the two I just mentioned?

Think about our prospects. What if Eloy, Cease, Robert, Moncada, Kopech or anyone else turns out to be a monster? Are we going to have any chance to resign them? Harper would possibly be here after all of those guys leave. If we want to build a lasting force in the AL Central, is this really the path to get there?

Even after all that, I've gotta say I'm still checking this thread daily to root for us signing him, but I've got some weird feelings in the back of my head.

All the reasons you state here are the reasons I want to sign Machado to a frontloaded 10 year deal that he's unlikely to opt out of before year 6 and almost assuredly will opt out of before year 8.

1 minute ago, Tony said:

Just for the sake of argument, Jason Heyward signed a deal with the Cubs at his age 26 season, and came in boosting a 30.7 career WAR. 

Bryce Harper is looking to sign a contract at his age 26 season, and has a career WAR of 27.3

Just food for thought. 

Which is why you sign the more consistent 26 year old whose value isn't completely tied up in his bat. That would be Machado.

2 minutes ago, Tony said:

Just for the sake of argument, Jason Heyward signed a deal with the Cubs at his age 26 season, and came in boosting a 30.7 career WAR. 

Bryce Harper is looking to sign a contract at his age 26 season, and has a career WAR of 27.3

Just food for thought. 

I read an article the other day about players who became FAs young. Bonds and ARod had the highest cumulative WARS. Machado is now 3rd all time. Heyward was 3rd. Harper is 11th. 

I think out of either, Harper is still the more likely of the two to come here. Machado has a well documented fondness for NY and with the Phillies also wanting him. 

6 minutes ago, Tony said:

Just for the sake of argument, Jason Heyward signed a deal with the Cubs at his age 26 season, and came in boosting a 30.7 career WAR. 

Bryce Harper is looking to sign a contract at his age 26 season, and has a career WAR of 27.3

Just food for thought. 

You can't compare Heyward to Harper from a talent perspective. Cmon.

Edited November 16, 20187 yr by Whitesox27

The debate over whether, or not, Harper could realistically be able to generate enough WAR to justify the kind of money, which we are discussing, is interesting. However, I'm more curious about the intangible factor of things like national exposure, product sales and competing for the Chicago fan base. How quantifiable are some of these considerations? Is it realistic to think that Harper could actually make a significant difference in the battle for Chicago's baseball market share?

11 minutes ago, Lillian said:

The debate over whether, or not, Harper could realistically be able to generate enough WAR to justify the kind of money, which we are discussing, is interesting. However, I'm more curious about the intangible factor of things like national exposure, product sales and competing for the Chicago fan base. How quantifiable are some of these considerations? Is it realistic to think that Harper could actually make a significant difference in the battle for Chicago's baseball market share?

If the Cubs are in on Harper that is pretty disastrous news for the Sox chances of signing him. Philly seems hellbent on inking Harper/Machado.

With the Yankees, Giants, Phillies, Cubs, Nationals, etc I'm not liking the chances of us landing Harper/Machado

1 hour ago, Markbilliards said:

Exactly.  I can't believe how many people on hear are foaming at the mouth over the idea of Harper.  He has the ceiling as the best player in baseball each year, but he is not consistent.  Pujols and Cabrera were very consistently MVP caliber players when they got their big contracts.  Even though he's younger, I do not feel good about the idea of bringing him in for a record breaking contract.  If he repeated his performances from 2013-2018 in 2019-2024 would that be worth 40M a year to you all?  To me, I don't think I'd be happy with that at 30M a year.

I agree with this wholeheartedly.  Harper is far too inconsistent to be given that kind of contract.  The only thing I see for anyone giving him that kind of money is lots of regret.

Edited November 16, 20187 yr by RickinIndiana

 

Just now, DirtySox said:

 

Grandal talk is scaring me, but that seems like a total White Sox move.

I don't see the Grandal fit at all. Seems like a poor use of resources.  

Now if the Sox trade Narvaez and Collins this offseason, maybe it makes more sense.  

I'm just going to hope the Grandal stuff is his agent trying to drum up interest. 

I'm in the Machado over Harper camp myself due to many of the reasons listed here. I also think many are overrating Harper's marketing potential, baseball players in general just aren't that marketable. It doesn't help that if you go to a game to see a player you'll only see him involved in a handful of plays. I think the potential impact there is being overstated.

2 hours ago, fathom said:

I’m shocked

I still can’t believe that people think Theo signed Darvish, Chatwood and Hamels to only put himself in a position to not be a player in this market.

The Cubs have no chance bro.  Their ownership literally had to sell equity to support their debt load.  Those trust fund kids don’t have endless pockets.

Grandal is an excellent framer and maybe a top 3 hitting catcher in baseball but I just don't see why we'd be a top suitor