The other deal that guy mentioned.

 

Surprised how many people were initially upset by this deal. Colome should be an obvious candidate for us to flip. Honestly, Colome might have better trade value this July than any reliever we have traded over the past few years. Kahnle got back Rutherford, but don't forget that Frazier and Robertson were also in that deal. A team like the Braves may be willing to give up someone from their DEEEEP farm system for him in July. They don't have any sort of lock-down closer and may part with someone like LHP Kyle Muller (#14 prospect) or if we can figure out a way to get C William Contreras (#12 prospect) involved. 

1 hour ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said:

Surprised how many people were initially upset by this deal. Colome should be an obvious candidate for us to flip. Honestly, Colome might have better trade value this July than any reliever we have traded over the past few years. Kahnle got back Rutherford, but don't forget that Frazier and Robertson were also in that deal. A team like the Braves may be willing to give up someone from their DEEEEP farm system for him in July. They don't have any sort of lock-down closer and may part with someone like LHP Kyle Muller (#14 prospect) or if we can figure out a way to get C William Contreras (#12 prospect) involved. 

Relievers – The Braves will be very active in the free agency and trade front for relievers. Craig Kimbrel will be the top target, which would push Arodys Vizcaino to 8th inning and AJ Minter to 7th inning. A dominant closer will be the primary target for this core.

14 hours ago, BlackSox13 said:

My point is that I think Colome will be more valuable next July than Narvaez so the Sox are looking to flip Colome in July for more than they could get for Narvaez now. He won't be in Chicago for long.

I think that is probably true but far from certain. It's why I'd rather have taken prospects for him now. I also think there will be other opportunities to acquire someone like Soria or sign a bounceback closer who could also be moved. Colome eats up one of those spots.

But really the one person who knows what other offers out there is Hahn. I just hope someone wasn't offering a decent prospect and we went with Colome instead.

17 hours ago, BlackSox13 said:

My point is that I think Colome will be more valuable next July than Narvaez so the Sox are looking to flip Colome in July for more than they could get for Narvaez now. He won't be in Chicago for long.

Except that Colome was traded last summer and didn't net that much.  And look at what we got for Soria - rule 5 Madeiros who hasn't shown a thing.

11 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Except that Colome was traded last summer and didn't net that much.  And look at what we got for Soria - rule 5 Madeiros who hasn't shown a thing.

Rule 5 Madeiros?

On 12/2/2018 at 8:31 AM, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Is it his age and injuries that bother you about Brantley ? As a player I love the guy. Low K's ,decent OBP ,left handed , not a liability with the glove, can steal a base every now and then, decent pop,very familiar with our division. He gives quality at bats. This from MLB.com

"Brantley's contact abilities are well-documented. His career 91.2 percent contact rate on swings is seventh-highest among qualified hitters in that span, and his 4.8 percent whiff rate on pitches in the zone in 2018 was the lowest, by far, among qualified hitters. "

I know Harper is still the fish out there circling the bait and maybe that's why you don't like Brantley, If you had said Markakis I would have agreed,

Age/injury and specifically how injuries may cause a bigger decline in defense. I like what he has been as a player, I don't want to bank on getting the "best of" brantley production.

1 hour ago, GreenSox said:

Except that Colome was traded last summer and didn't net that much.  And look at what we got for Soria - rule 5 Madeiros who hasn't shown a thing.

A mid-minors LH SP ranked just outside of the Brewers top 10 in a decent farm system?  For a guy who we got paid to take on a few months before?  What is wrong with that return and who was offering more?

18 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

A mid-minors LH SP ranked just outside of the Brewers top 10 in a decent farm system?  For a guy who we got paid to take on a few months before?  What is wrong with that return and who was offering more?

Well I think the point stands that at this point of the rebuild I don't think anyone should expect to do backflips over trades for market-priced relievers at deadline. They add backend system depth and are lottery tickets, but yeah, the idea of flipping him isn't going to be franchise altering without unreal luck.

1 minute ago, bmags said:

Well I think the point stands that at this point of the rebuild I don't think anyone should expect to do backflips over trades for market-priced relievers at deadline. They add backend system depth and are lottery tickets, but yeah, the idea of flipping him isn't going to be franchise altering without unreal luck.

Unless he turns out half a season of top notch closing, we aren't going to get anything insane for him.  But I feel pretty good in saying that even with a decent season, the return will be better than a back up catcher.

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

Unless he turns out half a season of top notch closing, we aren't going to get anything insane for him.  But I feel pretty good in saying that even with a decent season, the return will be better than a back up catcher.

I'm really not confident that is the case.

That approach also led to today’s rather more modest deal. The M’s are sending Alex Colome to the White Sox in exchange for catcher Omar Narvaez. At first glance, this is simply great for the M’s. The M’s do not need a great set-up man or closer in Colome, and I remain somewhat skeptical that he’s great at all. He’s had a FIP in the mid 3’s 3 of the past 4 years, and he hasn’t shown a *persistent* ability to strand runners the way he did in 2016. He’s a good player, but not a transcendent one – not when the average reliever has a K% just 2 percentage points behind Colome’s 2018 mark. Narvaez is an intriguing guy. He’s 26, bats lefty, and draws a ton of walks. Coming into 2018, that was essentially the sum total of his attributes: he had zero power, and hadn’t shown consistent hitting ability in the minors beyond a good walk rate and low Ks. Worse, he didn’t have a classic catcher’s arm, a Zunino-grade cannon to control the running game – he was a bat-first catcher with half a bat. But 2018 showed a lot of promise. Narvaez hit 9 HRs, tripling the 3 he hit in 2016-17 combined. There’s a bit more whiffs now, but a high walk rate and mediocre power is pretty darn good, especially at that position.

 

Here’s an M fan’s take, from USSMariner.com

Any analysis of Narvaez that doesn’t include defense is flawed.  As of today, he’s one of the worst defensive catchers in baseball.  Maybe that changes to some extent over time, but I’m not really convinced it will.  I also don’t buy into the power surge he showed last year.  To me, now was the time to sell and I’m assuming the Sox shopped him around a bit and felt Colome was the best offer. I really don’t see this move coming back to bite us.

2 hours ago, GreenSox said:

Except that Colome was traded last summer and didn't net that much.  And look at what we got for Soria - rule 5 Madeiros who hasn't shown a thing.

Colome got off to a rotten start last year with the Rays and was far better once he got to Seattle. His poor start had to play into his trade value and why the Rays even moved him at all. 

4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Colome got off to a rotten start last year with the Rays and was far better once he got to Seattle. His poor start had to play into his trade value and why the Rays even moved him at all. 

He was also dealt with Span who was a salary dump.

Edited December 3, 20187 yr by soxfan2014

23 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Relievers – The Braves will be very active in the free agency and trade front for relievers. Craig Kimbrel will be the top target, which would push Arodys Vizcaino to 8th inning and AJ Minter to 7th inning. A dominant closer will be the primary target for this core.

Exactly my point, thank you. 

 

Sure is nice having a reliable closer. Colome should fetch a nice return in July, certainly more than Narvaez would have.

On 12/1/2018 at 1:05 PM, caulfield12 said:

McCann from Detroit would be an obvious pick now...not sure what his salary would be, though.

Good call . Despite the not being able to see past their nose crowd chanting he sucks he sucks, McCann was a good choice since he was the youngest cheap choice and catchers have a tendency to develop late . That's how rebuilds work, pick the youngest guy and see what happens. More than likely he is what he is but hey you never know.

On 12/1/2018 at 4:16 PM, Balta1701 said:

Well yeah but that's a catcher. Catchers you have to think about differently because of the huge amount of additional info they're learning at each step on how to deal with the pitching staff. We see a ton of catchers who come up at 25, 26, 27, and even then grow over 2-3 years before they become reliable receivers these days, because they're spending so much time working on all the defensive things, playcalling things, scouting reports, etc., and then have to still figure out how to do batting practice despite all that other stuff. Yan Gomes put up a .527 OPS during Cleveland's WS season, they tried to replace him with Lucroy, and then last year he was an all star at age 30. Keep the catchers in the minors until they have little more they can learn in the minors, and I would have no problem if I didn't see either of the in the big leagues until 2020.

It's kind of funny seeing you not thinking this trade was so bad since later on you and Chicago White Sox really got into it about Narvaez. Even your comments here would seem to support the idea that McCann was the right choice given his age. Yet you constantly badmouthed MaCann later too  or maybe it was the idea that $2.5M was too much for him.

6 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It's kind of funny seeing you not thinking this trade was so bad since later on you and Chicago White Sox really got into it about Narvaez. Even your comments here would seem to support the idea that McCann was the right choice given his age. Yet you constantly badmouthed MaCann later too  or maybe it was the idea that $2.5M was too much for him.

I didn’t reread the entire thread but @Balta1701 first post in this thread indicates he did not like this trade.

“Generally not a fan of this at all.

One question I haven't seen answered - aside from Grandal, if we wanted a backup catcher to play part time behindsteroid dude and thought that Zavala wasn't yet ready as heisn't, who is available that could be a cheap backup catcher?” (Page 4)

 

52 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

I didn’t reread the entire thread but @Balta1701 first post in this thread indicates he did not like this trade.

“Generally not a fan of this at all.

One question I haven't seen answered - aside from Grandal, if we wanted a backup catcher to play part time behindsteroid dude and thought that Zavala wasn't yet ready as heisn't, who is available that could be a cheap backup catcher?” (Page 4)

 

Maldonado was pretty popular around here due his defense.  Given our young staff, that’s the guy I really wanted.

7 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It's kind of funny seeing you not thinking this trade was so bad since later on you and Chicago White Sox really got into it about Narvaez. Even your comments here would seem to support the idea that McCann was the right choice given his age. Yet you constantly badmouthed MaCann later too  or maybe it was the idea that $2.5M was too much for him.

The new information that arrived later in the offseason was the White Sox crying that they were still poor and couldn't afford to compete with big market teams like the Padres. That should have refocused everyone on the $44 million they wasted. 

That's the basic budgeting mistake. That's complaining publicly about how they're being foreclosed on for not paying their mortgage while standing in line at Starbucks for their 3rd $5 coffee of the day. One of those was more important than the other, and the White Sox decided it was the fancy coffees. 

Sandy Leone was available but not someone I would want. I would have liked Swihart as a placeholder for Collins for his bat and versatility but I don't know if he was available.  He supposedly was this winter 

Narvaez is hitting pretty well this year so far.