3 minutes ago, whitesoxwinner said:

From what Hahn said and others on this board have said, they did not know what the padres final offer was when they increased theirs. They were only told the padres had a higher offer

Then Lozano stinks at his job if he didn’t say hey that’s not gonna do it

1 minute ago, pcq said:

It might not have been clarified until Monday that the big man could not bear to pay 300M to a free agent. Some of the criticism omits that Rick was not controlling the purse strings. If Kenny had begged it could have happened but he chose not to go there. The Sox cannot afford to make money mistakes like the Yankees have.  

How in the living hell is KW the possible bad guy?  Seriously, what does Rick have to do for people to actually realize how bad he’s done at his job.

1 minute ago, pcq said:

It might not have been clarified until Monday that the big man could not bear to pay 300M to a free agent. Some of the criticism omits that Rick was not controlling the purse strings. If Kenny had begged it could have happened but he chose not to go there. The Sox cannot afford to make money mistakes like the Yankees have.  

And the thing they will never ever learn is that by staying out on the big names and going for the mid level names, the guys making $10-$20 million a year, they make those mistakes far more likely.

4 minutes ago, Kpet1010 said:

If you can give me 5 legit reasons to trust bob nightengale and Bruce Levine, then I'll hear you out.

Dont need them or trust them either. Common sense due to the fact that jerry reinsdorf is the owner tells me they have no shot at harper. But the narrative of lowballing was essentially correct

4 minutes ago, whitesoxwinner said:

Ok we won't listen to them. Instead, we will listen to Ken Rosenthal. Rosenthal said that machado was jerry's guy, yet he wouldn't pay top dollar or market value for him. So what makes you think that jerry would pay way more in market value for his second choice?

Sure, the octogenarian business mogul really preferred the "I'm not Johnny Hustle" brash young man, with the tattoos, braided hair and shirtless under his sport coat attire, to Bryce Harper. OK, if you believe that. I'm not buying it. And you don't think that Mr. Reinsdorf doesn't realize how much more value Harper has with his intangibles?

2 minutes ago, mqr said:

Then Lozano stinks at his job if he didn’t say hey that’s not gonna do it

That's what I said to @Y2Jimmy0 earlier. But them and the front office have implied it's what happened

Check out @jkarsh’s Tweet:

 

5 minutes ago, whitesoxwinner said:

From what Hahn said and others on this board have said, they did not know what the padres final offer was when they increased theirs. They were only told the padres had a higher offer

I understand this. The Padres offer would have been 300. So for us to up our offer to 250, would mean we were at 225 or so. So he either tricked us, or our offer was 250 and the Pads trumped it. The Pads knew because of taxes they needed 300 to beat our offer. 

Machado might have been the 1st choice because they thought they could get him cheaper with the friends and family discount.  But Harper is now the only choice and a much more marketable star.  Stay under the radar and save him from having to sign with the Phillies!!

2 minutes ago, whitesoxwinner said:

That's what I said to @Y2Jimmy0 earlier. But them and the front office have implied it's what happened

Anyone ever thought Manny wanted to go to Padres over Sox?  Trust me, I despise what happened this week, but far too many narratives being pushed that don’t seem to be set in reality.

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

And the thing they will never ever learn is that by staying out on the big names and going for the mid level names, the guys making $10-$20 million a year, they make those mistakes far more likely.

Let's not act that a lot of the first tier free agents didn't completely bomb.

 

Off the top of my head: Pujols, Fielder, Heyward and Chris Davis.

6 minutes ago, Lillian said:

Sure, the octogenarian business mogul really preferred the "I'm not Johnny Hustle" brash young man, with the tattoos, braided hair and shirtless under his sport coat attire, to Bryce Harper. OK, if you believe that. I'm not buying it. And you don't think that Mr. Reinsdorf doesn't realize how much more value Harper has with his intangibles?

The best baseball journalist, who is too smart to be used as a negotiation piece, said so. He probably liked him more because he's cheap and he knew he would be able to pay less for him than harper. And reinsdorf definitely knows how much more value harper has because of the business side, but he doesn't care. Reinsdorf literally doesn't care about stars. When's the last time he signed an actual star to his team, white sox or bulls? I'm not even sure he ever has

Edit: Signed as a free agent, not drafted or traded for.

Edited February 21, 20197 yr by whitesoxwinner

Just now, fathom said:

Anyone ever thought Manny wanted to go to Padres over Sox?  Trust me, I despise what happened this week, but far too many narratives being pushed that don’t seem to be set in reality.

he wanted to go wherever the most money was. I honestly believe if the offers ended up equal he would've chosen us. But, Jerry is the worst person in sports

11 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

San Diego reportedly put $280 on the table last week at some point, and Lozano took that offer to the 2 other teams saying so. He didn't say they'd sign but he told the other teams the new high offer. 

On Monday he went to all 3 teams and put $300 million guaranteed on the table. The White Sox countered with a slightly better offer than what they had on the table beforehand, but an offer that was already worse than the previous one they were told San Diego had offered. So, they clearly did not believe the San Diego offer even though they were told it. 

San Diego just said "Yes we'll take it". 

I see. So they didn't believe that after multiple meetings, the Pads were serious. 

3 minutes ago, whitesoxwinner said:

The best baseball journalist, who is too smart to be used as a negotiation piece, said so. He probably liked him more because he's cheap and he knew he would be able to pay less for him than harper. And reinsdorf definitely knows how much more value harper has because of the business side, but he doesn't care. Reinsdorf literally doesn't care about stars. When's the last time he signed an actual star to his team, white sox or bulls? I'm not even sure he ever has

He said he regretted signing Jordan, that speaks volumes. 

History tells us to stay tuned. Something great is about to happen. When the Sox were rebuffed by ARod, they didn't let that stop them. They went out and got Royce Clayron. Something similar may happen here. Don't destroy those season tickets yet.

6 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

I understand this. The Padres offer would have been 300. So for us to up our offer to 250, would mean we were at 225 or so. So he either tricked us, or our offer was 250 and the Pads trumped it. The Pads knew because of taxes they needed 300 to beat our offer. 

Agreed

What do the Sox have to lose by offering a front loaded contract with an earlier opt out than Machado got to Harper?   They have the money now to spend and if he walks after 4 years, they still had a marketable superstar for a time that should be the start of their windown of contention with the young guys.  

Harper and Eloy back to back...that will sell some tickets.

1 minute ago, SonofaRoache said:

I see. So they didn't believe that after multiple meetings, the Pads were serious. 

I don’t believe so at all. Who knows, maybe they believed 8/240 instead of 8/280 over the weekend. Remember the reports of different teams hearing different numbers?

8 minutes ago, Kpet1010 said:

Check out @jkarsh’s Tweet:

 

I believe harper told every team he met with that he really enjoyed their meeting. That doesn't mean shit

1 minute ago, whitesoxwinner said:

The best baseball journalist, who is too smart to be used as a negotiation piece, said so. He probably liked him more because he's cheap and he knew he would be able to pay less for him than harper. And reinsdorf definitely knows how much more value harper has because of the business side, but he doesn't care. Reinsdorf literally doesn't care about stars. When's the last time he signed an actual star to his team, white sox or bulls? I'm not even sure he ever has

I must admit that I admire your loyalty. If I believed what you are asserting, I would be done with this team. In fact, if what you are saying turns out to be true, I think it may be time to find a new team. It wouldn't be easy, after rooting for them since 1953, but I would try. So what keeps you a Sox fan?

5 minutes ago, GermanSoxFan said:

Let's not act that a lot of the first tier free agents didn't completely bomb.

 

Off the top of my head: Pujols, Fielder, Heyward and Chris Davis.

I wouldn't put chris davis as first tier. His market was pretty bad and then all the sudden baltimores deal came out and people were pretty stunned.

Some of those were from a different time, but pujols was on the heel of arod who did decent on his second deal. It was on pujols deal where the aging curve seemed to fall off a cliff. I'm not sure I've ever seen this definitively shown, but it sure seemed like around 2011-12 it got a lot worse with ages 31 on.

 

Just now, Lillian said:

I must admit that I admire your loyalty. If I believed what you are asserting, I would be done with this team. In fact, if what you are saying turns out to be true, I think it may be time to find a new team. It wouldn't be easy, after rooting for them since 1953, but I would try. So what keeps you a Sox fan?

To tell you the truth, I was 6 years old when they one the World Series. My formative years in sports were when they had those fun years from 05-08. They're my only die-hard team from Chicago, so growing up it was the only sports culture I was submerged in. Loving them is literally ingrained in me, and I could never stop. Not the stingy, overly loyal (albeit to his fans) owner, or the inept front office.

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

I wouldn't put chris davis as first tier. His market was pretty bad and then all the sudden baltimores deal came out and people were pretty stunned.

Some of those were from a different time, but pujols was on the heel of arod who did decent on his second deal. It was on pujols deal where the aging curve seemed to fall off a cliff. I'm not sure I've ever seen this definitively shown, but it sure seemed like around 2011-12 it got a lot worse with ages 31 on.

 

Perhaps the end of steroid use began to have its effect.

Man @whitesoxwinner I guess we should all just stop caring then and move on because you said so.

 

Sorry guys we are out on Harper. It's official...

 

Until Harper signs no team is out. No team can officially say they are out. So shut up until he signs and maybe leave this thread if you want to keep ruining our hopes and dreams, even if they are trivial to you

 

Edited February 21, 20197 yr by Kpet1010