Just now, Tony said:

 

If he's good and stays healthy, it's a three year deal. If he gets hurt and/or doesn't perform it's a two year deal basically.

11 minutes ago, aeichhor said:

He also had injuries in Washington 

And? Does that explain his poor play the previous year? Does it explain his drop in velocity? If this is a sign of things to come, are we going to feel better when he sucks but it was just because of injuries?

I'm not trying to rant at you, but we have way too much acceptance of mediocrity in this organization, and it's why we suck constantly. To go off-topic, the Sale trade comes to mind. I have hope for Moncada still, but he was the top piece in that trade. The Red Sox were getting one of the best pitchers in baseball, and in return, we get "hey this dude has a LOT of potential but that swing-and-miss could be a fatal flaw, hope it works out for you!"

No. You're getting the best, and so are we. No flaws. You want Chris freaking Sale? You better give us someone who is as close as possible to "can't miss" as it can possibly get. Vlad Jr, Devers, Robles, whoever.

But I'm tired of us getting back less than we deserve, and then coming up with excuses, be it in trades or FA. Let's demand, and get, what we are damn well due.

This report provides some insight and hope for him to return to form:

http://bostonsportsextra.com/boston-red-sox/2019/01/forget-kimbrel-sign-kelvin-herrera

 

1 minute ago, The Sir said:

And? Does that explain his poor play the previous year? Does it explain his drop in velocity? If this is a sign of things to come, are we going to feel better when he sucks but it was just because of injuries?

I'm not trying to rant at you, but we have way too much acceptance of mediocrity in this organization, and it's why we suck constantly. To go off-topic, the Sale trade comes to mind. I have hope for Moncada still, but he was the top piece in that trade. The Red Sox were getting one of the best pitchers in baseball, and in return, we get "hey this dude has a LOT of potential but that swing-and-miss could be a fatal flaw, hope it works out for you!"

No. You're getting the best, and so are we. No flaws. You want Chris freaking Sale? You better give us someone who is as close as possible to "can't miss" as it can possibly get. Vlad Jr, Devers, Robles, whoever.

But I'm tired of us getting back less than we deserve, and then coming up with excuses, be it in trades or FA. Let's demand, and get, what we are damn well due.

It is WAY too early to be freaking out over bullpen pieces.  These guys  are placeholders for our pen until the arms we have in the minors start to take over these slots.  Neither Herrera nor Colome will be on our next playoff team anyways.  This allows the Hamiltons, Burrs, Burdis, and others of the minors to break in at a more leisurely pace instead of being thrown straight into the fire.

If the arrival date of this team is earlier than the next couple of years, neither of the two guys we have added would block up from going after someone better, if needed.

40 minutes ago, The Sir said:

Meh. So far, all we've done this off-season is acquire scrubs. Colome, Nova, Herrera, McCann, Alonso. And frankly, the bullpen is the last piece a team should build. With a few exceptions, nobodies turn into studs and back into nobodies before you can even learn their names. Think Politte, Hermanson, and Cotts of oh so many years ago.

A good bullpen goes a long way to help a young starting rotation and the other inexperienced relievers. 

4 minutes ago, The Sir said:

And? Does that explain his poor play the previous year? Does it explain his drop in velocity? If this is a sign of things to come, are we going to feel better when he sucks but it was just because of injuries?

I'm not trying to rant at you, but we have way too much acceptance of mediocrity in this organization, and it's why we suck constantly. To go off-topic, the Sale trade comes to mind. I have hope for Moncada still, but he was the top piece in that trade. The Red Sox were getting one of the best pitchers in baseball, and in return, we get "hey this dude has a LOT of potential but that swing-and-miss could be a fatal flaw, hope it works out for you!"

No. You're getting the best, and so are we. No flaws. You want Chris freaking Sale? You better give us someone who is as close as possible to "can't miss" as it can possibly get. Vlad Jr, Devers, Robles, whoever.

But I'm tired of us getting back less than we deserve, and then coming up with excuses, be it in trades or FA. Let's demand, and get, what we are damn well due.

Guy might be down in some areas but was still good with the Royals last year. 

5 minutes ago, The Sir said:

And? Does that explain his poor play the previous year? Does it explain his drop in velocity? If this is a sign of things to come, are we going to feel better when he sucks but it was just because of injuries?

I'm not trying to rant at you, but we have way too much acceptance of mediocrity in this organization, and it's why we suck constantly. To go off-topic, the Sale trade comes to mind. I have hope for Moncada still, but he was the top piece in that trade. The Red Sox were getting one of the best pitchers in baseball, and in return, we get "hey this dude has a LOT of potential but that swing-and-miss could be a fatal flaw, hope it works out for you!"

No. You're getting the best, and so are we. No flaws. You want Chris freaking Sale? You better give us someone who is as close as possible to "can't miss" as it can possibly get. Vlad Jr, Devers, Robles, whoever.

But I'm tired of us getting back less than we deserve, and then coming up with excuses, be it in trades or FA. Let's demand, and get, what we are damn well due.

Moncada was a better prospect than Devers at the time of the trade, and I would still take Moncada over Devers.  The Sale trade was fine.  There is a point of dimensing returns and we saw that.  Heck ya I would have preferred Moncada, Kopech. Devers and Basabe, but that is an unprecedented haul.  The Sox got two blue chippers that are still very young.  Boston got what they wanted, we still have 5-6 years to get what we want out of the deal.  

Sox are going to have to do something roster wise. Full 40 man

Good arm under ten mil a year for two years. Fine. Makes pen better without blocking anyone or preventing any other moves, current or future. Hard to get upset. 

52 minutes ago, Joshua Strong said:

Awesome, I wanted them to improve the bullpen going into this season. Colome and now Herrera with guys like Jones, Fry, Hamilton and Vieira, the bullpen might be the team’s biggest strength. 

I expect that this takes them out of the Ottavino race but I still would like for them to sign another guy with high leverage experience like Brad Boxberger.

 

Zero reason to add another veteran reliever at this point.  We have four guys pretty much set from the right side in Herrera, Colome, Jones, & Hamilton.  Plus we have Fry and the winner of the Bummer / Frare battle from the left-side.  We can fill in the remaining spot or two with youngsters.

2 minutes ago, aeichhor said:

Sox are going to have to do something roster wise. Full 40 man

Clarkin?

1 minute ago, aeichhor said:

Sox are going to have to do something roster wise. Full 40 man

Tilson I am sure will be the one DFA'd.  Cordell or Clarkin probably next 2 to go.  

7 minutes ago, The Sir said:

And? Does that explain his poor play the previous year? Does it explain his drop in velocity? If this is a sign of things to come, are we going to feel better when he sucks but it was just because of injuries?

I'm not trying to rant at you, but we have way too much acceptance of mediocrity in this organization, and it's why we suck constantly. To go off-topic, the Sale trade comes to mind. I have hope for Moncada still, but he was the top piece in that trade. The Red Sox were getting one of the best pitchers in baseball, and in return, we get "hey this dude has a LOT of potential but that swing-and-miss could be a fatal flaw, hope it works out for you!"

No. You're getting the best, and so are we. No flaws. You want Chris freaking Sale? You better give us someone who is as close as possible to "can't miss" as it can possibly get. Vlad Jr, Devers, Robles, whoever.

But I'm tired of us getting back less than we deserve, and then coming up with excuses, be it in trades or FA. Let's demand, and get, what we are damn well due.

I disagree with your assessment of the Sale trade. You are looking at Moncada in hindsight. Moncada was the #1 prospect in baseball by multiple groups. He was a prospect and not all of them live up to the hype. That's the chance you take. They also acquired Kopech you looked to have near the potential as Sale. With Basabe as well, it looks like a pretty good trade for both teams.

43 minutes ago, fathom said:

I think my concern is they've spent roughly 35 million for next season on stop-gap measures.  That's a lot of money for a team that will lose a lot of games in 2019 without some big additions.

The bullpen guys can be flipped for prospects if need be.  Zero issue spending money there.  We all know why they added Alonso and no one should care if it helps us end up landing Machado.  Nova seems like less of a bargain, but not a terrible overpay based on what the Angels just spent on a pair of mediocre starters.  And quite frankly, we needed a vet to eat some innings.  I know the $35M seems like a big nut, but there is some logic beyond each of the moves.

I'm fine with this. The money doesn't seem to be a overpay here. Seems just right.

Welcome aboard Kelvin!

If the Sox sign Manny I think the narrative for all of these signings that were done prior to will totally change. 

Right now we are signing people to trade them later. If Manny signs with Sox people will not view these signings as later trade bait. 

13 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

Clarkin?

Good call. He was DFA'd once by us so he seems like an ideal candidate. 

21 minutes ago, ptatc said:

A good bullpen goes a long way to help a young starting rotation and the other inexperienced relievers. 

So is catcher. Grandal anyone?

Per MLBTR on option:

Herrera’s third-year option is valued at $10MM with a $1MM buyout, tweetsBruce Levine of CBS Chicago / 670 The Score. That indicates that Herrera will earn $17MM between the first two seasons of the deal, with the buyout making up the remainder of that $18MM guarantee. The exact terms of the vesting option remain unclear, though Levine notes that Herrera will need to be healthy in both 2019 and 2020 for it to vest, so it’s likely a combined number of innings pitched or appearances that’ll trigger the third year. As with all vesting options, it’ll revert to a straight club option if Herrera does not meet the designated criteria.

26 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Moncada was a better prospect than Devers at the time of the trade, and I would still take Moncada over Devers.  The Sale trade was fine.  There is a point of dimensing returns and we saw that.  Heck ya I would have preferred Moncada, Kopech. Devers and Basabe, but that is an unprecedented haul.  The Sox got two blue chippers that are still very young.  Boston got what they wanted, we still have 5-6 years to get what we want out of the deal.  

 

21 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I disagree with your assessment of the Sale trade. You are looking at Moncada in hindsight. Moncada was the #1 prospect in baseball by multiple groups. He was a prospect and not all of them live up to the hype. That's the chance you take. They also acquired Kopech you looked to have near the potential as Sale. With Basabe as well, it looks like a pretty good trade for both teams.

There were indicators, at the time, that Moncada had swing-and-miss issues. His K-rate was about 22% in A-ball in 2015-16, and 31% in AA in 2016.

This isn't to shit on Moncada, and again, I still have hope for him (it all lies in getting those Ks down). But why, if you're getting one of the best pitchers in baseball on a team friendly contract for several years, can you be allowed to surrender anything less than flawless? Benintendi and Devers and Mookie weren't on the table, but why?!!??! You're getting Chris Sale. Show us the fucking money!!

I just feel like we need to have higher expectations as a fan base. That's all.

8 minutes ago, Flash said:

So is catcher. Grandal anyone?

A good catcher helps as well. How good is Grandal with calling a game and working with young pirchers?

5 minutes ago, The Sir said:

 

There were indicators, at the time, that Moncada had swing-and-miss issues. His K-rate was about 22% in A-ball in 2015-16, and 31% in AA in 2016.

This isn't to shit on Moncada, and again, I still have hope for him (it all lies in getting those Ks down). But why, if you're getting one of the best pitchers in baseball on a team friendly contract for several years, can you be allowed to surrender anything less than flawless? Benintendi and Devers and Mookie weren't on the table, but why?!!??! You're getting Chris Sale. Show us the fucking money!!

I just feel like we need to have higher expectations as a fan base. That's all.

Because there is no such thing as a flawless player. They all had their strengths a nod weakness. Out of 5ge group you mentioned only Moncada was considered #1. Your discussion is purely hindsight. They received an outstanding group of prospects  for Sale, but they were still prospects.

4 minutes ago, The Sir said:

 

There were indicators, at the time, that Moncada had swing-and-miss issues. His K-rate was about 22% in A-ball in 2015-16, and 31% in AA in 2016.

This isn't to shit on Moncada, and again, I still have hope for him (it all lies in getting those Ks down). But why, if you're getting one of the best pitchers in baseball on a team friendly contract for several years, can you be allowed to surrender anything less than flawless? Benintendi and Devers and Mookie weren't on the table, but why?!!??! You're getting Chris Sale. Show us the fucking money!!

I just feel like we need to have higher expectations as a fan base. That's all.

I think Devers was on the table.  I think it was Devers or Moncada with Kopech.  Sox chose Moncada over the future 1B, and they made the right decision IMO.  Mookie was obviously not available (nor does he really fit our rebuilding timeframe) and I am not sure if Benintendi was ever available or not.  

1 hour ago, fathom said:

Bruce seems so salty towards the Sox these days

 

There's a good reason for that.