January 24, 20197 yr 1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Well, if the Sox aren't competitive in 2020 then this has gone horribly wrong. If it's 2021 before the Sox even contend for the postseason, then their rebuild took 6 years and has no sustainability of youth, and was a failure given the pieces they traded to kick this thing off. Frankly something that really impacted 2020 already went horribly wrong - Kopech's elbow. Given how his 2018 went I think there's a good chance he struggles for a good portion of 2020 and even if he does, you'll have to pitch him anyway to get him through that. One or two more things like that, or miss out on both big FAs, and the White Sox aren't competitive in 2020.
January 24, 20197 yr 3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Cheap free agents are cheap because they aren't expected to produce between 2.5-3.5 WAR. There are currently zero position players on the market (not named Manny/Bryce) that are expected to produce that kind of output. What separates a successful rebuild from an unsuccessful one is the GM being able to evaluate his own prospects and trade the right ones for viable Major League talent. Hahn has seen these guys more than anyone else - he needs to decide who is going to pan out and who isn't and dump the ones with less expectations while they still have value. We just watched a much more valuable Pollack sign a deal that will about equal what Pederson is about to make this year in arb. Those free agents exist literally every single year.
January 24, 20197 yr If you argue about the White Sox chances to compete in the coming years without mention of the fact that they are in the worst division in baseball for the foreseeable future you don't have a good argument.
January 24, 20197 yr 3 minutes ago, raBBit said: They won't be able to hold everyone on the 40 the next couple years. A 1/3 of the top thirty prospects ended the year in A+. They're all going to be needing protection soon. That's why trading Alex Call made sense (who they traded him for is another story). That's why potentially trading one of Fry/Bummer makes sense. It's not all cut and dried. You can trade that backlog for players that have more than 2 years control remaining. Hahn said no stop-gaps. Proceeds to trade for and signs 6 stop-gaps and counting.
January 24, 20197 yr 1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said: We just watched a much more valuable Pollack sign a deal that will about equal what Pederson is about to make this year in arb. Those free agents exist literally every single year. Not quite. Pederson is due $5M in 2019. Pollock will be making $13-14M.
January 24, 20197 yr 3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Well, if the Sox aren't competitive in 2020 then this has gone horribly wrong. If it's 2021 before the Sox even contend for the postseason, then their rebuild took 6 years and has no sustainability of youth, and was a failure given the pieces they traded to kick this thing off. 2021 is the 5th year. They started this in winter of 2016, which means 2017 was year 1, 2018 was year 2, 2019 is year 3, 2020 is year 4.
January 24, 20197 yr 1 minute ago, raBBit said: If you argue about the White Sox chances to compete in the coming years without mention of the fact that they are in the worst division in baseball for the foreseeable future you don't have a good argument. This is very important and way too often ignored here by the folks that look at things so black and white.
January 24, 20197 yr Just now, GREEDY said: You can trade that backlog for players that have more than 2 years control remaining. Hahn said no stop-gaps. Proceeds to trade for and signs 6 stop-gaps and counting. I will say this, every move Hahn has made seems to be with the idea they were getting Machado. If they don't get him, then god help this organization.
January 24, 20197 yr "Ray Ray Run," "Southsider2K5" and the rest of you, who are participating in this discussion, regarding the possible trade for Pederson, I'd just like to commend you all for a very interesting and informative conversation. This is the kind of quality discourse, which makes this site so worthwhile. Very impressive, indeed. Thank you.
January 24, 20197 yr 1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said: We just watched a much more valuable Pollack sign a deal that will about equal what Pederson is about to make this year in arb. Those free agents exist literally every single year. Next year's OF free agents include Kemp, Puig, Castellanos, Marcell Ozuna, Corey Dickerson. Several 3+ WAR players in there.
January 24, 20197 yr 4 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Jeeze, I'd like to be the GM of a team that says go ahead and take 5 years to rebuild - even though the 4 main assets you traded for were less than 2 years from big league ready. (Cease, Kopech, Moncada and Eloy). You don't trade for guys that are ready to play AA and AAA baseball, and then waste three years of their control on bad baseball teams. That's not how rebuilds work. Young guys should be coming up to compliment the pieces they add this year and next. Considering even the Cubs took 4 full years with an ownership willing to spend and a fanbase willing to stick around, that isn't really true.
January 24, 20197 yr 3 minutes ago, raBBit said: If you argue about the White Sox chances to compete in the coming years without mention of the fact that they are in the worst division in baseball for the foreseeable future you don't have a good argument. Agreed. And there is zero excuse to not try and make the ML team better when looking at this divisional outlook. There is opportunity both this year and next. It might not (probably won't) happen, but punting isn't the answer. Edited January 24, 20197 yr by mqr
January 24, 20197 yr 2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: We just watched a much more valuable Pollack sign a deal that will about equal what Pederson is about to make this year in arb. Those free agents exist literally every single year. How is Pollock much more valuable than Pederson? Since Pederson has entered the league he's accumulated 10.1 WAR in 4 years, in that same window Pollock has accumulated 12 WAR. Pollock is 3 years older, and hasn't been healthy for a full season since 2015.
January 24, 20197 yr 1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said: We just watched a much more valuable Pollack sign a deal that will about equal what Pederson is about to make this year in arb. Those free agents exist literally every single year. Apples to oranges. Pollock has had over 500 plate appearances once in his career. He gets paid 65 cents on the dollar because he is available 65 percent of the year.
January 24, 20197 yr Just now, southsider2k5 said: Considering even the Cubs took 4 full years with an ownership willing to spend and a fanbase willing to stick around, that isn't really true. People werent really ready for what a rebuild meant. You dont start taking short cuts to maybe get 80-85 wins.
January 24, 20197 yr 3 minutes ago, GREEDY said: You can trade that backlog for players that have more than 2 years control remaining. Hahn said no stop-gaps. Proceeds to trade for and signs 6 stop-gaps and counting. He said no no stop gaps?
January 24, 20197 yr 2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Considering even the Cubs took 4 full years with an ownership willing to spend and a fanbase willing to stick around, that isn't really true. The cubs didn't have a Hall of Famer and 2 all stars on team friendly deals to trade. Stop comparing the White Sox to teams that started at rock-bottom Edited January 24, 20197 yr by mqr
January 24, 20197 yr Just now, Soxbadger said: People werent really ready for what a rebuild meant. You dont start taking short cuts to maybe get 80-85 wins. You mean the Sox front office?
January 24, 20197 yr Just now, Soxbadger said: People werent really ready for what a rebuild meant. You dont start taking short cuts to maybe get 80-85 wins. This is 100% the truth. People begged for a rebuild, and two years later are sick of the rebuild and abandoning the team in droves, just like I predicted. Now they are wanting to waste assets for marginal gain in years where they have no chance in competing.
January 24, 20197 yr 1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said: Considering even the Cubs took 4 full years with an ownership willing to spend and a fanbase willing to stick around, that isn't really true. The Cubs didn't trade 3 of the best assets in baseball to acquire their youth. They didn't trade for a plethora of already established MiLB prospects. They drafted well, made some FA signings, and a couple of great trade. Everyone who compares these two rebuilds completely ignores the fact that the White Sox had a head start given the assets they moved to acquire their talent.
January 24, 20197 yr On 1/24/2019 at 12:15 PM, raBBit said: He said no no stop gaps? Rabbit: I can't quote you exactly but that's the impression I also got for reading his comments over the past several months. That the Sox would not be doing anything "short-term". The goal was "long term sustainable success."
January 24, 20197 yr 6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: We just watched a much more valuable Pollack sign a deal that will about equal what Pederson is about to make this year in arb. Those free agents exist literally every single year. Pollock is much more valuable than Pederson?
January 24, 20197 yr Just now, southsider2k5 said: This is 100% the truth. People begged for a rebuild, and two years later are sick of the rebuild and abandoning the team in droves, just like I predicted. Now they are wanting to waste assets for marginal gain in years where they have no chance in competing. You should care less what the fans think and more what the front office thinks. From the moves they've made and are trying to make, they sure seem to be talking themselves into being competitive next year at the latest.
January 24, 20197 yr 2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: This is very important and way too often ignored here by the folks that look at things so black and white. The Central was the worst division in baseball when the rebuild started. It was the worst division last offseason. It is still the worst division. This team took ZERO steps forward last season. It is fine if fans are getting antsy and want to watch a competitive team, that is fine, many would say that is how fans should be at all times, but just admit that.
January 24, 20197 yr 3 minutes ago, raBBit said: He said no no stop gaps? https://www.mlb.com/video/hot-stove-rick-hahn/c-2520857783
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