10 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I was waiting for someone to say this, but this times 100. On almost any other team in baseball, Tatis would not even be in the big leagues yet. The fact that people are calling it the worst trade in baseball is a joke for a couple reasons:

1. Tatis had not played a single game since signing as the 30th best international prospect in baseball for under 1 million dollars - nothing had changed, and every team in baseball missed on Tatis but for the Sox who then in turn swung and missed lol. 

2. This guy was traded for money, so please spare all the worst trade in baseball history hyperbole. 

This is very MUCH not true.

He grew from 5'11 to 6'3 1/2" during that time, but still gained strength, running speed and velocity on his throws.

If you look at that previous generation of SS's, the Ripkens, the Jeters/A-Rods/Nomars/Tejadas....to today, there's never been one (other than A-Rod, who we can't really accurately discuss due to the PEDs issue) player of that height who became MORE athletic.

Almost always, shortstops need to be moved off the position usually to 3rd or 2nd base.

 It was a horrible trade. I wonder if the Sox would have made it if Big Game James wasn't related to Aaron Rowand. But Tatis never suited up for the White Sox organization. No one knew what he was or else his bonus would have been a lot higher.

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

MLB doesn't market anyone; Tatis will be no different. He plays in San Diego where 90% of the country isn't even awake to see him; Mike Trout has been dealing with that his entire career, and Tatis will be no different.

Manfred is a moron; he calls out the players not realizing the NBA and NFL market their players, not the other way around.

Well, this is a HUGE issue for baseball, because Bellinger, Trout, Tatis and Betts are arguably the four best young players in baseball and all located within 108 miles of each on on the West Coast where weeknight games usually begin at 9/10 p.m. CST/EST.

If Tatis was on the Sox still he would be whiffing at a 40% clip with no plate discipline. 

4 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

 It was a horrible trade. I wonder if the Sox would have made it if Big Game James wasn't related to Aaron Rowand. But Tatis never suited up for the White Sox organization. No one knew what he was or else his bonus would have been a lot higher.

Because the player who signed and the player who emerged weeks later (after the trade) in Arizona were two entirely different players.

It's why everyone in the world flipped out about how Keith Law ranked him in the Top 10 out of seemingly nowhere.  It's because the word quickly got out around the scouting world.  Everyone was talking about him, just like the baseball world is now fascinated with Luis Robert's immense potential as well.

Edited August 11, 20205 yr by caulfield12

ZZZZZ

Sorry, I fell asleep reading the same thread that gets created every few months.

Bad trade.  Horrible trade.  Shields sucked.  Tatis is a future superstar.  Blah blah.

Let's move on.

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

This is very MUCH not true.

He grew from 5'11 to 6'3 1/2" during that time, but still gained strength, running speed and velocity on his throws.

If you look at that previous generation of SS's, the Ripkens, the Jeters/A-Rods/Nomars/Tejadas....to today, there's never been one (other than A-Rod, who we can't really accurately discuss due to the PEDs issue) player of that height who became MORE athletic.

Almost always, shortstops need to be moved off the position usually to 3rd or 2nd base.

OK Caufield.

1. He was 6'0 as a 16 year old; saying growing 3 inches is game changing is laughable. 

2. This isn't basketball.

Also, he grew 2 inches, not the fictitious 3 and 1/2 that you made up:

"He grew two inches in his first year to 6-foot-2, got stronger, was playing in the White Sox’s instructional camp at 17, and was just a few weeks ago before making his professional debut in the Arizona Rookie League."

You're practically arguing if he was 6'2 he wouldn't have been the 30th ranked prospect. It's nonsense. He hadn't played a game, and every team could have had him just months earlier for a million dollars.

8 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Because the player who signed and the player who emerged weeks later (after the trade) in Arizona were two entirely different players.

It's why everyone in the world flipped out about how Keith Law ranked him in the Top 10 out of seemingly nowhere.  It's because the word quickly got out around the scouting world.  Everyone was talking about him, just like the baseball world is now fascinated with Luis Robert's immense potential as well.

Would you stop saying this. My goodness, you act like you were on the back fields scouting Tatis. He was the same player; he hadn't played in organized professional baseball games and anyone could have signed him. You've exaggerated his growth and his status at the time of the trade.

Tatis wasn't ranked on a single prospect publication until 2017 (Where he appeared in one on the bottom of a team list), and he didn't appear on Keith Law's list until 2018 - after he had a 910 OPS as an 18 year old in A ball. The White Sox traded him in 2016. You literally just make up stuff to try and make everything look worse and so obvious.

Edited August 11, 20205 yr by Look at Ray Ray Run

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Would you stop saying this. My goodness, you act like you were on the back fields scouting Tatis. He was the same player; he hadn't played in organized professional baseball games.

Tatis wasn't ranked on a single prospect publication until 2017 (Where he appeared in one on the bottom of a team list), and he didn't appear on Keith Law's list until 2018 - after he had a 910 OPS as an 18 year old in A ball. The White Sox traded him in 2016. You literally just make up stuff to try and make everything look worse and so obvious.

Also, when Law first ranked him high, he had never seen him play either. I don't know why this has to continue to be re-hashed. It would be great to have him, but they aren't getting him back. The trade was terrible, but the only thing that can be done now is move on. 

Edited August 11, 20205 yr by Dick Allen

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

OK Caufield.

1. He was 6'0 as a 16 year old; saying growing 3 inches is game changing is laughable. 

2. This isn't basketball.

Also, he grew 2 inches, not the fictitious 3 and 1/2 that you made up:

"He grew two inches in his first year to 6-foot-2, got stronger, was playing in the White Sox’s instructional camp at 17, and was just a few weeks ago before making his professional debut in the Arizona Rookie League."

You're practically arguing if he was 6'2 he wouldn't have been the 30th ranked prospect. It's nonsense. He hadn't played a game, and every team could have had him just months earlier for a million dollars.

He’s 6’3 1/2” right now, Passan even rounds it up to 6’4” at least once in his article.

 

So even after people/scouts got to see Tatis play 55 games between Rk and A- ball, only MLB pipeline even thought he was a top 10 prospect in the Padres system. That "changed" man that the Padres had stolen from the Sox and been a vastly different player couldn't crack top 10 Padre lists.

Just now, caulfield12 said:

He’s 6’3 1/2” right now, Passan even rounds it up to 6’4” at least once in his article.

 

Yeah, people grow from 16 to 21. I'm pretty sure no one that scouted him as a kid thought he was done growing when projecting his future.

I'm not convinced that Padres fans aren't making burner accounts to occasionally make this thread when they are feeling down. Why do we need a new one of these threads every 3-6 months?

And never forget; Preller is a crook and baseball somehow allowed him to keep his job and continue on.

The guy traded injured players without disclosing proper medicals, and baseball let him keep the players he acquired for his damaged goods and keep his job. 

As I have said before, the worst thing about this trade is that Hahn had to sweeten the deal at all by including any extra players.  It is just that much worse that the "throw in" happened to be Tatis.  Shields was called out by the owner of the Padres as a bad signing.  Erik Johnson should have been more than enough compensation for the Sox to take him off their hands.  That the Sox had to kick in more to get the Padres to pay some of his salary is a joke imho.

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

They would make the same arguments though about our 3 young core players in Robert, Jimenez and Moncada.

I'm not even 100% convinced he couldn't have played the entire second half, think 50% of it was tanking for draft position after they got buried in the playoff race.  There was never an actual X-ray provided.   He's obviously swinging the bat exactly the same as last season, maybe even more violently.   Also had a badly injured thumb from sliding (just like Robert) at the minor league level in 2018.

That said, anytime Moncada runs at full bore, Jimenez has a defensive play of any kind that forces him to move more than 15-20 feet and Robert is threatening to run into every single player other than the catcher...injury is one of the unfortunate words that can come to mind.

FWIW, cocky also has been used to describe Moncada and Robert.   That's a label that gets thrown out more often than not to describe minority athletes in most major sports.    Like it's a bad thing that Tom Brady is the most confident player on any football field, but, that's just leadership/moxie/character, right?

If you've watched him play more than a few times, though, cocky really isn't the best word to describe him.

Maybe sometimes just don't 

1 hour ago, SoxAce said:

I'm almost 100% positive Tatis Jr. would still be in AAA (maybe even AA) right now. 

He'd be here, but he'd probably be struggling and "getting acclimated."    Renteria would have hitting 8th "to protect him."

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

They would make the same arguments though about our 3 young core players in Robert, Jimenez and Moncada.

I'm not even 100% convinced he couldn't have played the entire second half, think 50% of it was tanking for draft position after they got buried in the playoff race.  There was never an actual X-ray provided.   He's obviously swinging the bat exactly the same as last season, maybe even more violently.   Also had a badly injured thumb from sliding (just like Robert) at the minor league level in 2018.

That said, anytime Moncada runs at full bore, Jimenez has a defensive play of any kind that forces him to move more than 15-20 feet and Robert is threatening to run into every single player other than the catcher...injury is one of the unfortunate words that can come to mind.

FWIW, cocky also has been used to describe Moncada and Robert.   That's a label that gets thrown out more often than not to describe minority athletes in most major sports.    Like it's a bad thing that Tom Brady is the most confident player on any football field, but, that's just leadership/moxie/character, right?

If you've watched him play more than a few times, though, cocky really isn't the best word to describe him.

The joke

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At some point we need to get over this.  We included a powerball ticket in a birthday card and it turned out to be the $100 million ticket.  Does that make us the biggest idiots ever or really really really unlucky?  In retrospect it was a horrible decision but at the time Tatis wasn't in the top 150 players in the Sox organization and if we had thrown in Luis Curbelo instead (18 year old SS, #7 in our top prospects list in mid year 2016) we would have been OUTRAGED at the huge overpay for Shields and today we would say we got nothing for nothing.  Instead...we put a $1 piece of paper that was almost certainly going to be worthless into the birthday card and now we continually lose our minds at the weird randomness of the world.    

Now I think we all know he wouldn't be nearly as good if he was still with the Sox. Plus where would Tim Anderson play!!!!???

/s

 

kinda

Edited August 11, 20205 yr by BigHurt3515

I personally like watching and cheering for Tim Anderson, Yoan Moncada, and Nick Madrigal.  If Tatis was here, at least one of those guys wouldn't be.

The question is would he be this good if the White Sox kept him, especially this early in his career? 

4 minutes ago, JuliusO1274 said:

The question is would he be this good if the White Sox kept him, especially this early in his career? 

No we would have found a way to ruin him

3 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I was waiting for someone to say this, but this times 100. On almost any other team in baseball, Tatis would not even be in the big leagues yet. The fact that people are calling it the worst trade in baseball is a joke for a couple reasons:

1. Tatis had not played a single game since signing as the 30th best international prospect in baseball for under 1 million dollars - nothing had changed, and every team in baseball missed on Tatis but for the Sox who then in turn swung and missed lol. 

 

Your first point is irrelevant. It is not about whether or not it was the worst trade when it happened in 2016. It is about looking at it now in hindsight and seeing we traded what could be the best player in baseball for James Shields.

1 hour ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

At some point we need to get over this.  We included a powerball ticket in a birthday card and it turned out to be the $100 million ticket.  Does that make us the biggest idiots ever or really really really unlucky?  In retrospect it was a horrible decision but at the time Tatis wasn't in the top 150 players in the Sox organization and if we had thrown in Luis Curbelo instead (18 year old SS, #7 in our top prospects list in mid year 2016) we would have been OUTRAGED at the huge overpay for Shields and today we would say we got nothing for nothing.  Instead...we put a $1 piece of paper that was almost certainly going to be worthless into the birthday card and now we continually lose our minds at the weird randomness of the world.    

Well the Padres obviously saw something because they wanted him as their lottery ticket.