July 1, 20196 yr 51 minutes ago, hogan873 said: Any credibility you had regarding your analysis of Jose is gone with this post. Did he kick your dog or something? Sure seems like it the way he's posted about him the past 3-4 years.
July 1, 20196 yr 36 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said: Sure seems like it the way he's posted about him the past 3-4 years. Yeah, I honestly don't get it all. He seems like a good, smart, rational baseball fan except when it comes to Abreu. I don't understand it at all. Maybe he is just clowning all of us?
July 1, 20196 yr 17 hours ago, harkness99 said: 3 time all star I wonder how many fan bases have 3 time all stars as unpopular as Abreu is to Sox fans, at least the ones who use message boards. It's almost as if some people won't give it a rest until he's long gone from the South Side. Or are all-star appearances now also no measuring stick of a player's value like RBI and runs scored. Means nothing in the advanced stat era?
July 1, 20196 yr 1 minute ago, greg775 said: I wonder how many fan bases have 3 time all stars as unpopular as Abreu is to Sox fans, at least the ones who use message boards. It's almost as if some people won't give it a rest until he's long gone from the South Side. Or are all-star appearances now also no measuring stick of a player's value like RBI and runs scored. Means nothing in the advanced stat era? Dude nobody hates Abreu (okay one person hates Abreu), some of us are just cautious of using long-term resources on him.
July 1, 20196 yr 1 hour ago, greg775 said: I wonder how many fan bases have 3 time all stars as unpopular as Abreu is to Sox fans, at least the ones who use message boards. It's almost as if some people won't give it a rest until he's long gone from the South Side. Or are all-star appearances now also no measuring stick of a player's value like RBI and runs scored. Means nothing in the advanced stat era? You realize RBIs are dependent on things outside the hitters control for the most part. you cant get them if nobody is on base for you, or if you have a base path clogger, like Abreu. I love Abreu but it is impossible to compare players based on RBI.
July 2, 20196 yr 2 hours ago, greg775 said: I wonder how many fan bases have 3 time all stars as unpopular as Abreu is to Sox fans, at least the ones who use message boards. It's almost as if some people won't give it a rest until he's long gone from the South Side. Or are all-star appearances now also no measuring stick of a player's value like RBI and runs scored. Means nothing in the advanced stat era? It is interesting that if you go to White Sox official web site they tell me who leads the club in batting average, home runs, stolen base & rbi's. I can't find anything that tells me who is leading in any of the advanced stat races. My point is that the average baseball fan relates to stats we've grown up with. I see advanced stats as additional evaluation tools but they don't make obsolete the traditional yard sticks that make up the triple crown or win & losses and earn run averages. Is there really such a thing as a WAR monster player with poor traditional stats? For me...WAR has helped guys like Sanchez & Garcia show their value a little better than just traditional stats.
July 2, 20196 yr If you have been reading on this board, you have learned some interesting things about WAR or fwar. Is there a difference between the two? I really have no idea. Some of things quoted on here about war or fwar (again, don't know if one is the same as other one or if there's a difference - and don't tell me; I don't care.) According to WAR: the 2005 World Series Sox every day players were all average or so, and Sox only won that series by pitching. Really, really hard for me to believe, but a weak case could be made for that one. Regardless of home runs and RBIs (and now all-star selection AGAIN), Abreu is a below average 1st baseman. Sorry, can't start to believe that one. And here's the killer and it was on some thread last week or so: Kelvin Herrera has a better WAR than Colome and therefore he is the better pitcher and has done more to help the Sox this year. Honest. Who else remembers that thread? So I got new for all the advanced stat people; I'm gonna pretty much ignore WAR claims and just stick with home runs, RBIs, ERA, saves and stuff like that. Call me crazy.
July 2, 20196 yr Anyway, don't everybody let my opinion on Abreu ruin things for you. Most people like him here. He's hit plenty of homers and he earned a reserve spot on the allstar team. I'm happy for him and that the White Sox have 3 allstars. Hats off to you, Mr. Abreu
July 2, 20196 yr 3 minutes ago, ron883 said: Anyway, don't everybody let my opinion on Abreu ruin things for you. Most people like him here. He's hit plenty of homers and he earned a reserve spot on the allstar team. I'm happy for him and that the White Sox have 3 allstars. Hats off to you, Mr. Abreu What if he dips during the Allstar Game? Is it okay because they didn’t ban tobacco at Progressive Field? Edited July 2, 20196 yr by Moan4Yoan
July 2, 20196 yr 2 hours ago, vilehoopster said: If you have been reading on this board, you have learned some interesting things about WAR or fwar. Is there a difference between the two? I really have no idea. Some of things quoted on here about war or fwar (again, don't know if one is the same as other one or if there's a difference - and don't tell me; I don't care.) According to WAR: the 2005 World Series Sox every day players were all average or so, and Sox only won that series by pitching. Really, really hard for me to believe, but a weak case could be made for that one. Regardless of home runs and RBIs (and now all-star selection AGAIN), Abreu is a below average 1st baseman. Sorry, can't start to believe that one. And here's the killer and it was on some thread last week or so: Kelvin Herrera has a better WAR than Colome and therefore he is the better pitcher and has done more to help the Sox this year. Honest. Who else remembers that thread? So I got new for all the advanced stat people; I'm gonna pretty much ignore WAR claims and just stick with home runs, RBIs, ERA, saves and stuff like that. Call me crazy. I love this post and this poster! I will join you. I feel vindicated now that baseball tells us what they think of Abreu. Remember, he earned this all star spot. They didn't have to take a third White Sox player. Obviously he is well respected as a productive veteran baseball player!
July 2, 20196 yr 3 hours ago, poppysox said: It is interesting that if you go to White Sox official web site they tell me who leads the club in batting average, home runs, stolen base & rbi's. I can't find anything that tells me who is leading in any of the advanced stat races. My point is that the average baseball fan relates to stats we've grown up with. I see advanced stats as additional evaluation tools but they don't make obsolete the traditional yard sticks that make up the triple crown or win & losses and earn run averages. Is there really such a thing as a WAR monster player with poor traditional stats? For me...WAR has helped guys like Sanchez & Garcia show their value a little better than just traditional stats. I've been repeating myself on here for years regarding baseball announcers almost exclusively quoting the traditional stats. "Now batting, Leury Garcia, who is hitting .295 with six home runs and 30 RBI." Or Stoney after a guy hits a home run immediately telling us how many RBI a guy has and how many homers. Oh, yes, some of the announcers throw in WAR once in a while and all that. Not many. I'm so glad there are more posters who think the way I do on here now. Edited July 2, 20196 yr by greg775
July 2, 20196 yr 10 hours ago, greg775 said: I've been repeating myself on here for years regarding baseball announcers almost exclusively quoting the traditional stats. "Now batting, Leury Garcia, who is hitting .295 with six home runs and 30 RBI." Or Stoney after a guy hits a home run immediately telling us how many RBI a guy has and how many homers. Oh, yes, some of the announcers throw in WAR once in a while and all that. Not many. I'm so glad there are more posters who think the way I do on here now. Announcers usually only talk about traditional stats because most viewers are only interested in the traditional stats. I'm not saying most viewers don't appreciate the advanced stats...some do. But when you're watching a game, you're concerned about BA, HRs, RBIs, OBP...that's about it. Benetti and Stone have talked advanced stats on occasion, and Jason usually takes the time to explain what the particular stat means. WAR, wOBA, wRC+ - These stats don't win one game. A home run or an RBI wins one game. And a guy who is hitting a bunch of home runs and driving in a bunch of runs gets a lot of attention because chances are he's won a game or two. The traditional stats are what fans look at when voting for all stars. Traditional stats are what most of us look at when seeing how well a player is doing. The advanced stats are what baseball insiders and the front office folks look at when analyzing how valuable a player is and what value they could add to a team. All that being said, I still think Abreu is more valuable than he's given credit for. I'm not saying he's a guy you ignore advanced stats about, but he's definitely a guy that you can't ignore the traditional stats. He's a decent hitter with a ton of power, and he's having a good season in that regard. He's a good DH candidate going forward and a good bridge to Vaughn.
July 2, 20196 yr 14 hours ago, vilehoopster said: According to WAR: the 2005 World Series Sox every day players were all average or so, and Sox only won that series by pitching. Really, really hard for me to believe, but a weak case could be made for that one. They were 13th in runs scored that year which was actually below league average. It's in fact an extremely easy case to make, you're just being willfully ignorant. Edited July 2, 20196 yr by mqr
July 2, 20196 yr 11 hours ago, greg775 said: I've been repeating myself on here for years regarding baseball announcers almost exclusively quoting the traditional stats. "Now batting, Leury Garcia, who is hitting .295 with six home runs and 30 RBI." Or Stoney after a guy hits a home run immediately telling us how many RBI a guy has and how many homers. Oh, yes, some of the announcers throw in WAR once in a while and all that. Not many. I'm so glad there are more posters who think the way I do on here now. You've been repeating yourself for years about everything.
July 2, 20196 yr 12 minutes ago, Quin said: You've been repeating yourself for years about everything. Who doesn't?
July 2, 20196 yr 34 minutes ago, mqr said: They were 13th in runs scored that year which was actually below league average. It's in fact an extremely easy case to make, you're just being willfully ignorant. I know when the sox won their first game 1-0, their last game 1-0, and their final world series game 1-0, I was thinking "God damn this is an offensive powerhouse, what do the stats say? That we only had one 'RBI'? Those stats are idiots!"
July 2, 20196 yr 1 hour ago, poppysox said: Who doesn't? People that are able to do research and have evolving opinions.
July 2, 20196 yr 2 hours ago, hogan873 said: Announcers usually only talk about traditional stats because most viewers are only interested in the traditional stats. I'm not saying most viewers don't appreciate the advanced stats...some do. But when you're watching a game, you're concerned about BA, HRs, RBIs, OBP...that's about it. Benetti and Stone have talked advanced stats on occasion, and Jason usually takes the time to explain what the particular stat means. WAR, wOBA, wRC+ - These stats don't win one game. A home run or an RBI wins one game. And a guy who is hitting a bunch of home runs and driving in a bunch of runs gets a lot of attention because chances are he's won a game or two. The traditional stats are what fans look at when voting for all stars. Traditional stats are what most of us look at when seeing how well a player is doing. The advanced stats are what baseball insiders and the front office folks look at when analyzing how valuable a player is and what value they could add to a team. All that being said, I still think Abreu is more valuable than he's given credit for. I'm not saying he's a guy you ignore advanced stats about, but he's definitely a guy that you can't ignore the traditional stats. He's a decent hitter with a ton of power, and he's having a good season in that regard. He's a good DH candidate going forward and a good bridge to Vaughn. Great post. I get most upset when the advanced statters seem to get all worked up the most about how bad Jose is when his batting average starts to dip to .250 or below. It seems that wakes them up. So they ARE looking at batting average. Interesting.
July 2, 20196 yr 38 minutes ago, greg775 said: Great post. I get most upset when the advanced statters seem to get all worked up the most about how bad Jose is when his batting average starts to dip to .250 or below. It seems that wakes them up. So they ARE looking at batting average. Interesting. No, they start noticing that his OBP is dropping close to .300 which is getting into the bad area when his batting average reaches that level.
July 4, 20196 yr .829 OPS and 115 wRC+ now. A 2 year extension, with the 2nd year being a team or mutual option, would be nice
July 4, 20196 yr 1 minute ago, Jose Abreu said: .829 OPS and 115 wRC+ now. A 2 year extension, with the 2nd year being a team or mutual option, would be nice He sees the writing on the wall with Vaughn coming up next season.
July 4, 20196 yr 3 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said: .829 OPS and 115 wRC+ now. A 2 year extension, with the 2nd year being a team or mutual option, would be nice I’d probably be ok with something like 2/$25M.
July 4, 20196 yr 1 minute ago, ron883 said: He sees the writing on the wall with Vaughn coming up next season. Vaughn next season? Maybe. If Eloy can improve in the outfield, you can DH Jose and get away with a couple years extension.
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