1 minute ago, aeichhor said:

 

If kenny says it, it's going down. 

Sounds like Phillies beat offer last night, have a day to counter and that'll be that. Sox decide how much their willing to push it today. If they set out to get wheeler and committed to.beat the market then  nothing to worry about. If they had a valuation they were maxed at, phillies and reds could have beat it.

Edited December 4, 20196 yr by Look at Ray Ray Run

2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

They certainly didnt trade for 6 years of them.

But they picked up $53 million for 2.5 years of a 35 year old pitcher and gave up their #3, #4 and #5 prospects. 

 

2 minutes ago, cjgalloway said:

I would be fine passing at 6 years.. But almost anything in the 5 year range would be bitter if we don't beat the offer. 

Yup. If it's under 5/110 the sox have no excuse. If its 6+ or 120-125, I get it.

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

Lol, a lot of whining in here today. Relax fellas.



Honestly if Wheeler approaches Corbin territory, give me Ryu. 

Only one team will win the Wheeler sweepstakes.  Then the teams that missed out will target the next pitcher.   

Just now, southsideirish71 said:

Only one team will win the Wheeler sweepstakes.  Then the teams that missed out will target the next pitcher.   

Good thing there are 3 other SP better than Wheeler. 

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yup. If it's under 5/110 the sox have no excuse. If its 6+ or 120-125, I get it.

This is pretty much where I stand

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

But they picked up $53 million for 2.5 years of a 35 year old pitcher and gave up their #3, #4 and #5 prospects. 

 

Then signed him for a 2/66 extension this year.

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

But they picked up $53 million for 2.5 years of a 35 year old pitcher and gave up their #3, #4 and #5 prospects. 

 

Dick, how is this giving extra years and spending wastefully in free agency? I'll hang up and listen.

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

Good thing there are 3 other SP better than Wheeler. 

2.

3 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Good thing there are 3 other SP better than Wheeler. 

They definitely won't be in play for 2 of them. And the teams in on Wheeler (and probably a couple more) should be in on Ryu. Less years and money, better, no draft pick. 

Edited December 4, 20196 yr by soxfan2014

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

Good thing there are 3 other SP better than Wheeler. 

Do you think we went this deep into this process because we are making a run at those 3.  Why wouldn't we just go directly to Cole and Stras and backup the brinks truck and say what Uniform # would you like.  This sounds like target 1A for the sox. 

7 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yup. If it's under 5/110 the sox have no excuse. If its 6+ or 120-125, I get it.

I don't understand why 6 years is a problem if we feel this is an elite pitcher. If he sucks, we are fucked anyway. I also think we'd be able to trade him for year six anyway or before if it came to it. I question Ryu because the big spending Dodgers don't want him at what seems to be a bargain. They'd rather go after Cole and Stras when they have two aces already than to re-sign him to a reasonable deal. 

At some point we are gonna have to take a risk to be great. Otherwise we become the As and Twins.

Edited December 4, 20196 yr by SonofaRoache

1 minute ago, cjgalloway said:

2.

Ryu, Strasburg, and Cole. That makes it 3.

1 minute ago, SonofaRoache said:

I don't understand why 6 years is a problem if we feel this is an elite pitcher. If he sucks, we are fucked anyway. I also think we'd be able to trade him for year six anyway or before if it came to it. I question Ryu because the big spending Dodgers don't want him at what seems to be a bargain. They'd rather go after Cole and Stras when they have to access already than to re-sign him to a reasonable deal. 

The Dodgers also have a bajillion SP. 

1 minute ago, SonofaRoache said:

I don't understand why 6 years is a problem if we feel this is an elite pitcher. If he sucks, we are fucked anyway. I also think we'd be able to trade him for year six anyway or before if it came to it. I question Ryu because the big spending Dodgers don't want him at what seems to be a bargain. They'd rather go after Cole and Stras when they have to access already than to re-sign him to a reasonable deal. 

With his velocity I think you're basically getting 3 years of + production from wheeler... with health risk attached to that. Year 4 would be blah and 5 dead. If you think 6 is a dead year too it's tough to give that money for 3 + years of performance.

1 minute ago, maloney.adam said:

Ryu, Strasburg, and Cole. That makes it 3.

meh.. Sure Ryu is the better pitcher when healthy... Sadly he's never healthy.  He has worse injury history than wheeler lol.  I'll take the potential and better health of wheeler

Edited December 4, 20196 yr by cjgalloway

Just now, cjgalloway said:

The Dodgers also have a bajillion SP. 

But they are going after Cole and Stras. If they have a bajillion SPs, why not just re-sign Ryu to a reasonable 3 year deal? I think it is because they do not want or trust Ryu can sustain his play. 

1 minute ago, cjgalloway said:

meh.. Sure Ryu is the better pitcher when healthy... Sadly he's never healthy.  He has worse injury history than wheeler lol.  I'll take the potential of wheeler

$120/130 mill is a lot for "potential."

Edited December 4, 20196 yr by soxfan2014

35 minutes ago, southsideirish71 said:

Think Miley or Porcello or Hamels as the big pitching addition if we don't like the money or the years.   

Porcello as the big addition!

5 minutes ago, southsideirish71 said:

Only one team will win the Wheeler sweepstakes.  Then the teams that missed out will target the next pitcher.   

Boras will be perfectly happy to raise the price on Ryu from 3/$54 to 4/$80.

Then it will be too risky again.

Just now, soxfan2014 said:

$120/130 mill is a lot for potential. 

I don't think anyone here will be mad if we pass at those numbers.. He's proven to be a #2 pitcher.  There's potential for more. Not seeing that is asinine

2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

With his velocity I think you're basically getting 3 years of + production from wheeler... with health risk attached to that. Year 4 would be blah and 5 dead. If you think 6 is a dead year too it's tough to give that money for 3 + years of performance.

That is speculation. We don't know how long he will be good for. 

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Dick, how is this giving extra years and spending wastefully in free agency? I'll hang up and listen.

It's another way of getting bad contracts. Both Verlander's, as he was signed through this season when acquired and Greinke's  have had hints of dead money. Face it, the Tigers wanted out of the contract. They didn't get a huge haul for Verlander. Arizona got a bigger haul but still have to pay $24 million for Greinke to pitch elsewhere, and they think that is more than worth it.

If you are serious about signing one of the top free agents, you better be prepared to pay them for years your people will tell you they probably won't be productive. It was a much smaller gamble back in the day, but JR got Carlton Fisk because he guaranteed him 3 years. Roland Hemond advised him Fisk probably had 2 more productive seasons left. That worked out tremendously, just like the Verlander trade did for the Astros. But I guarantee you, their people thought they would probably be eating money at the end of his deal. 

1 minute ago, soxfan2014 said:

$120/130 mill is a lot for potential. 

We are discussing passing at 5 years 100-110. No excuse

Just now, caulfield12 said:

Boras will be perfectly happy to raise the price on Ryu from 3/$54 to 4/$80.



Then it will be too risky again.

Wait Boras is his client, well cross him off the list.