3 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

He has 4 years $48.5M left.  So while that is cheap for a player with his talent, its not like like he's making nothing.

20: $7.6M; 21: $11.1; 22: $13.1; 23: $16.6M

Up to $1M in escalators per year.  

This is making nothing in today's game.  Wheeler over $20 million, Bumgarner looking that way.  By 2023, that $16.6 is #4  starter money the way this craziness is going.  

3 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Funny because eveyone else would be willing to pack Nick's bags if it was 1 for 1 Madrigal for Gallen.

which is interesting.. I would want nothing to do with Gallen at that price.  

3 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Funny because eveyone else would be willing to pack Nick's bags if it was 1 for 1 Madrigal for Gallen.

Why?

Gallen had a nice year last year - a nice pro-debut - but he was never a big prospect - never even breaking the top 10 for his team.

4 minutes ago, Wisebri224 said:

This is making nothing in today's game.  Wheeler over $20 million, Bumgarner looking that way.  By 2023, that $16.6 is #4  starter money the way this craziness is going.  

Its a good price (I am not saying otherwise), but its not nothing.  Obviously its far less than he'd get on the FA market, which is a big reason why he'd command a large return.  

2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Why?

Gallen had a nice year last year - a nice pro-debut - but he was never a big prospect - never even breaking the top 10 for his team.

This is a main reason why I would not even consider that.  Never really high thought of.  Many players come in hot and fizzle.  I wouild just stay clear of losing a big prospect like Madrigal for a guy like that.  We see it all the time..

I mean look what the Marlins traded him for in the middle of his debut.... Jazz Chisholm

Chisholm has a chance to be a monster.  That's going to be a hell of a trade for the Marlins.  

3 minutes ago, cjgalloway said:

This is a main reason why I would not even consider that.  Never really high thought of.  Many players come in hot and fizzle.  I wouild just stay clear of losing a big prospect like Madrigal for a guy like that.  We see it all the time..

I mean look what the Marlins traded him for in the middle of his debut.... Jazz Chisholm

I mean, FWIW, Chisholm is generally ranked fairly closely to Madrigal.  MLBpipeline has Chisholm 53, Madrigal 40.

But yah, I am not trading Madrigal for Gallen either.  I don't get why so many people are ready to trade our mlb ready 2nd baseman.  The guy is going to be a fixture at 2B for the next 7 seasons - why are we filling a hole by creating another?  Unless Rendon is walking through the door, trading Madrigal would be so stupid. 

Why not ? Gallen might be the next great pitcher and we need pitching while there are 2nd basemen all over the place. Not sure when he is a FA because FG has it as 2025 and BF has it as 2026. Weird they are so far apart because FG has him as Arb. Eligible in 2020 while BF has him Arb. Eliglible in 2023

I don’t think there’s any chance the Rays sell low on Snell this year, unless they think he’s hurt or something. His ERA was way higher than his FIP, the latter of which was excellent. He’s a very, very strong bounce back candidate, and they know it. 

2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I mean, FWIW, Chisholm is generally ranked fairly closely to Madrigal.  MLBpipeline has Chisholm 53, Madrigal 40.

But yah, I am not trading Madrigal for Gallen either.  I don't get why so many people are ready to trade our mlb ready 2nd baseman.  The guy is going to be a fixture at 2B for the next 7 seasons - why are we filling a hole by creating another?  Unless Rendon is walking through the door, trading Madrigal would be so stupid. 

This is pre=update.. Madrigal will stay around 40.  Chisholm will fall out of the top 100 post update.

Edited December 9, 20196 yr by cjgalloway

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

I mean, FWIW, Chisholm is generally ranked fairly closely to Madrigal.  MLBpipeline has Chisholm 53, Madrigal 40.

But yah, I am not trading Madrigal for Gallen either.  I don't get why so many people are ready to trade our mlb ready 2nd baseman.  The guy is going to be a fixture at 2B for the next 7 seasons - why are we filling a hole by creating another?  Unless Rendon is walking through the door, trading Madrigal would be so stupid. 

Well, mainly that 2b has been pretty easy to fill, especially at his expected offensive production. I'm not sure there is an easier position to fill.

1 minute ago, cjgalloway said:

This is pre=update.. Madrigal will stay around 40.  Chisholm will fall out of the top 100.

Why would chisholm fall out of the top 100?

Rule number one:  Don't trade with people way smarter than you!     I know some would say that means we can't trade but that is not my intent.

1 minute ago, Eminor3rd said:

I don’t think there’s any chance the Rays sell low on Snell this year, unless they think he’s hurt or something. His ERA was way higher than his FIP, the latter of which was excellent. He’s a very, very strong bounce back candidate, and they know it. 

The Rays trading Snell doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Although the Pham trade was odd given their window as well.

For how envious Sox fans are of the Rays organization, their fanbase doesn't share your level of excitement. The Rays just sold a 3-4 WAR outfielder in maybe the best year they have had to win/compete in a decade +. The Red Sox are not trying to compete; Toronto and Baltimore are bad. The Yankees are really the only team their competing with, for once, and they have a really good team. The Rays NEVER go for it, and that is maddening. They just traded Pham to accumulate another middle infield prospect, but why? They have no room for him in the system, and the Rays never trade from their prospect wealth to acquire high end/elite talent to compete in a given year. 

They consistently reshuffle their deck, and put rosters that are watchable and talented but not good enough on the field. 

3 minutes ago, bmags said:

Well, mainly that 2b has been pretty easy to fill, especially at his expected offensive production. I'm not sure there is an easier position to fill.

Why is 2nd base easy to fill?

Outside of catcher, 2nd base has consistently had the fewest 3+ WAR players in baseball over the past decade. 

That means to me, that if Madrigal is a 3+ WAR player for the next 7 years he's an incredibly valuable piece.

4 minutes ago, bmags said:

Well, mainly that 2b has been pretty easy to fill, especially at his expected offensive production. I'm not sure there is an easier position to fill.

Question about Madrigal? I saw last years production with the 3 levels that he had close to 40 SB's. IF and when on the Sox roster for 2020 do we expect the team to use his speed? Also wondering where you guys think he would fit in the lineup? Don't mean to jump topics but Madrigal's name came up here.

4 minutes ago, Saufley said:

Question about Madrigal? I saw last years production with the 3 levels that he had close to 40 SB's. IF and when on the Sox roster for 2020 do we expect the team to use his speed? Also wondering where you guys think he would fit in the lineup? Don't mean to jump topics but Madrigal's name came up here.

His stolen base totals and success rate went down at every level.  He's not going to be a stolen base guy at the big league level and he'll hit at the bottom of the order.  

13 minutes ago, bmags said:

Why would chisholm fall out of the top 100?

I don't know if he'll fall out, but he just hit 220 with a 33.8% k-rate at AA. He was young, and still was 12% better than league average but I wouldn't be shocked if he felt a bit; not out of the top 100 though.

9 minutes ago, bmags said:

Why would chisholm fall out of the top 100?

Super bad K rates.  Bad batted ball.  .761 OPS.  There are 100 better prospects in baseball.. I'd bet he falls out of top 100 for sure.

1 minute ago, cjgalloway said:

Super bad K rates.  Bad batted ball.  .761 OPS.  There are 100 better prospects in baseball.. I'd bet he falls out of top 100 for sure.

Maybe by dopes who just scout stat lines but not by anyone who scouts tools.  

Just now, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Maybe by dopes who just scout stat lines but not by anyone who scouts tools.  

I'm not saying he still isn't a fine prospect.. But he will not be top 100 after the year he had.

2 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Maybe by dopes who just scout stat lines but not by anyone who scouts tools.  

Right. Because casual fans get the chance to go out and watch thousands of MiLB players and "scout tools" 

Sometimes stats are all you have to go by. 

Edited December 9, 20196 yr by Charlie Haeger's Knuckles

2 minutes ago, Charlie Haeger's Knuckles said:

Right. Because casual fans get the chance to go out and watch thousands of MiLB players and "scout tools" 

Sometimes stats are all you have to go by. 

I was talking about the people who rank prospects. 

4 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Maybe by dopes who just scout stat lines but not by anyone who scouts tools.  

So you think he goes up and not down? Certainly possible as he was still 12% better than league average and a 21 year old, but k'rates north of 30 can scare off anyone. Hell, moncada fell in some rankings solely because of his bat to ball skills and he struck out a lot but his batted ball numbers were absurd.

58 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Whose player evaluation would you trust more, the White Sox or the Rays? I'll hang up and listen.

Trading with the Rays would make me pretty nervous after they fleeced the Pirates in the Archer deal. Their limited budget forces their scouting and player development to be top notch in order to compete. I would be interested in who the Rays would ask for, knowing they clearly see something in those guys.

Tampa has the best farm in baseball right now.