1 minute ago, tray said:

And he hit a dollar 86 in the majors.

We should give up on all prospects after they get demoted, make adjustments and proceed to hit the absolute hell out of the ball while filling a short term and long term hole on this team.

" Collins’s patience in working counts has also translated to high strikeout totals in his professional career: in 1365 minor league plate appearances, Collins has produced a 29% strikeout rate. His struggles making contact have also produced low batting averages, though Collins’s skillset is such that he can be productive without hitting for a high average. Scouts are also skeptical his defense behind the plate, with MLB Pipeline suggesting that Collins “lacks soft hands and is a shaky receiver.”

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/zack-collins

Just now, tray said:

" Collins’s patience in working counts has also translated to high strikeout totals in his professional career: in 1365 minor league plate appearances, Collins has produced a 29% strikeout rate. His struggles making contact have also produced low batting averages, though Collins’s skillset is such that he can be productive without hitting for a high average. Scouts are also skeptical his defense behind the plate, with MLB Pipeline suggesting that Collins “lacks soft hands and is a shaky receiver.”

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/zack-collins

My man.

This guy hits 70+ XBHs a year when our current RF is replacement level. 

in Charlotte.

More powerful than steaming locomotive, faster than a speeding bullet on the bases, slower than cold molasses behind the plate, it's a bird, it's a plane, no it's Zac(k) Collins.   Your Superman.

Edited December 24, 20196 yr by tray

35 minutes ago, tray said:

Zack hit .232 and .235 at A and AA ball. He walked a lot though so good OPS but that may not get him anything but strike outs looking in the majors.   And, " the longstanding questions about Zack Collins’ defense behind the plate aren’t any closer to being answered. "

Trade him for a relief pitcher so Zack gets his chance somewhere else.

So, batting average?

2016, High A: 151 wRC+
2017: High A/AA: 130 wRC+/166wRC+
2018: AA: 128 wRC+
2019: AAA/MLB: 140 wRC+/77 wRC+

Looks like a dude who crushed the minors and struggled in 100 PA in the Majors.

Weird because it took Nick Castellanos over 1,000 PA in the majors before he recorded an above average offensive line. 

Edited December 24, 20196 yr by Eminor3rd

14 minutes ago, tray said:

in Charlotte.

Because as we know, US Cellular field is renowned for suppressing power.

19 minutes ago, tray said:

in Charlotte.

5 hours ago, NotHahn said:

So what your saying is Nick Castellanos > JD Martinez

?

5 hours ago, Eminor3rd said:

Alright, asshole...

 

So what is it? Is he like JD Martinez or not? Is my "reading comprehension" a problem, or did you just say two completely opposite things?

If he isn't as good, why did YOU say that he reminded you of JD? If it's about doubles instead of homers, why did YOU compare them using ONLY HOMERS?

The only reason I said "not trying to be a dick" is because you argued using numbers that made SO little sense, I was afraid you'd be embarrassed when I pointed it out. 

The home run comparison was made to point out how power could surge when leaving Comerica Park and it's deep alleys. If you construed it that I was trying to say that he was a HR hitter of equal stature to JD - then that's on you. I never said or implied that, and the numbers I posted would of laughed off any such argument.

4 hours ago, Eminor3rd said:

So, batting average?

2016, High A: 151 wRC+
2017: High A/AA: 130 wRC+/166wRC+
2018: AA: 128 wRC+
2019: AAA/MLB: 140 wRC+/77 wRC+

Looks like a dude who crushed the minors and struggled in 100 PA in the Majors.

Weird because it took Nick Castellanos over 1,000 PA in the majors before he recorded an above average offensive line. 

I actually don’t really think you believe this. 

Just now, tray said:

" Collins’s patience in working counts has also translated to high strikeout totals in his professional career: in 1365 minor league plate appearances, Collins has produced a 29% strikeout rate. His struggles making contact have also produced low batting averages, though Collins’s skillset is such that he can be productive without hitting for a high average. Scouts are also skeptical his defense behind the plate, with MLB Pipeline suggesting that Collins “lacks soft hands and is a shaky receiver.”

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/zack-collins

Modern beisbol. Kinda crazy to have two catchers who cannot catch in Omar and Zakariah. Makes you wonder what they teach in those commie schools these days. When I was a lad you slept with your glove on and it was uphill in deep snow both ways. Santa couldn't even make it thru that snow. 

2 minutes ago, pcq said:

Modern beisbol. Kinda crazy to have two catchers who cannot catch in Omar and Zakariah. Makes you wonder what they teach in those commie schools these days. When I was a lad you slept with your glove on and it was uphill in deep snow both ways. Santa couldn't even make it thru that snow. 

???

I see I'm not the only one with trouble sleeping, haha. While I'd love the Sox to sign Nick. I would be absolutely shocked if they did. Everything seems to be pointing to Edwin Encarnacion.

5 minutes ago, Sarava said:

I see I'm not the only one with trouble sleeping, haha. While I'd love the Sox to sign Nick. I would be absolutely shocked if they did. Everything seems to be pointing to Edwin Encarnacion.

Wake up for the one year old, stay up to yell at the drunk crowd

5 minutes ago, bmags said:

Wake up for the one year old, stay up to yell at the drunk crowd

Pffff. This is standard protocol for night owl workers.

Just now, Sarava said:

I see I'm not the only one with trouble sleeping, haha. While I'd love the Sox to sign Nick. I would be absolutely shocked if they did. Everything seems to be pointing to Edwin Encarnacion.

When you pass out during Family Feud it's EZ to wake up early and I even chopped down an artificial tree. I am ready for Jerry to send us Big Nick for Festivus who I suspect is waiting on the Wrigley's and Kras Bryant. Just my own theory. 

I work midnight shift.  ?‍♂️

Also yes, Nick.

9 hours ago, mqr said:

There’s a large gap between being pessimistic and not thinking Nick Castellanos is JD Martinez

But there isn't a large gap between being pessimistic and thinking Keuchel is Dylan Covey & Mazara is Adam Engel

9 hours ago, Eminor3rd said:

I think that works in OOTP, but realistically, and ESPECIALLY with this front office, if they go get a guy, that means they're going to give that guy the job. And the major problem is that I can't even remember the last time the White Sox developed a guy that made a relatively seamless transition to the MLB from the minors -- all their guys have to struggle and either failed or eventually figured it out at the MLB level. Is that a drafting issue, or a player development issue? Maybe it's just more common than I think it is because I don't watch other teams as closely as I do the White Sox -- but regardless, the White Sox need to give the prospect ABs for him to figure out how to hit at the MLB level. With a highly paid incumbent, I don't know how that ever happens unless the incumbent is so bad that he doesn't even deserve playing time.

I acknowledge that NC is almost certainly  better hitter than Collins in 2020, and probably a better hitter than Vaughn in 2021. But when you have multiple holes to fill and a "limited" budget to fill it, and when your player dev/drafting is mediocre enough that you only hit on your top talents, I feel like you need to spend your money filling the holes instead of trying to get a 1 or 2 win improvement on guys you already have.

These moves reek of desperation. The White Sox went into this offseason with literally $15.333M committed to 2020. No-brainer arbitration bumped that to $37M, and Abreu bumped it up a bit more. We're being asked as fans, to be okay with Gio Gonzalez (Steamer projects 1.1 fWAR for 2020) and Dallas Keuchel (Steamer projects 2.4 fWAR for 2020) as the answer to our pitching problem. When 5 and 6 win pitchers were available and were bought by franchises that were up against the luxury tax! We traded a prospect for Nomar Mazara (Steamer projects 1.5 fWAR) with better options (including NC!) available in FA, and now we're going to pay a 2-3 win DH to block Zack Collins. These are inefficient, back-against-the-wall, win-now moves, and this is exactly the strategy that got the White Sox in enough deep shit to require a rebuild in the first place.

I don't hate these players, I just want the franchise to start acting like a successful franchise. To do the things that everyone can see the elite franchises do. ESPECIALLY because we've all had to put up with bullshit the past three years in order to give them that chance.

I’m sorry, but you’ve gone off the rails with this post.  Outside of Keuchel, none of our additions could even be argued as “backs-against-the-wall, win now” moves.  Grandal is one of top two or three catchers in baseball and solved numerous needs for us.  He was a tremendous addition even if you want to argue we’re still a year away.  Gonzalez provides cheap SP depth that this team desperately needed if you followed the team at all last and does so for $6M.  A guy like Mazara is the exact oppose of a “win now” move.  And buying a 2 to 3 win DH for 1/$10M is the definition of efficiency.

So basically you are upset that Sox spent $55M guaranteed on a low ceiling starter in Keuchel when elite guys were available and have now decided to go on this bizarre tangent where you claim everything we’ve done has railroaded our rebuild.  Trying to argue blocking Collins is somehow this egregious offense is funny to me.  I actually like Collins as a prospect, but he not a guy who should just be handed a job, especially with Vaughn right around the corner.  Smart organizations would use him as a versatile bench piece or as minor league depth if they have any realistic chance of competing.  The Yankees did not hesitate bumping a much higher regarded prospect in Frazier down to AAA to add the same 2 to 3 win DH we’re looking at now.

I’m sure you’re response will be we’re not ready to compete and that’s fine if you want to make that argument.  But the front office believes the clock is starting to tick with Moncada & Giolito only left with four years of control and wants to have a roster in place that can win the worst division in baseball if our young guys take big enough steps forward in their development next year.  The Twins executed this such plan to perfection last year without any elite free agents and there is reason to believe we can do the same.  If you’re going to be critical of our individual moves, at least do so under this lens.  Just don’t argue they’ve pushed all their chips in and that they’re all win at all costs moves.

Edited December 24, 20196 yr by Chicago White Sox

Am I the only one that could see Castellanos signing a 1-year "bet on yourself" deal, with the hopes of getting a monster contract in 2021?

5 minutes ago, KnightsOnMintSt said:

Am I the only one that could see Castellanos signing a 1-year "bet on yourself" deal, with the hopes of getting a monster contract in 2021?

That would not be a bad idea for him.  He'd also need to prove he can be an average RF. That may help him more than proving he's actually a stud hitter. I'd offer him 1 year 20 million.  Why tf not.

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I’m sorry, but you’ve gone off the rails with this post.  Outside of Keuchel, none of our additions could even be argued as “backs-against-the-wall, win now” moves.  Grandal is one of top two or three catchers in baseball and solved numerous needs for us.  He was a tremendous addition even if you want to argue we’re still a year away.  Gonzalez provides cheap SP depth that this team desperately needed if you followed the team at all last and does so for $6M.  A guy like Mazara is the exact oppose of a “win now” move.  And buying a 2 to 3 win DH for 1/$10M is the definition of efficiency.

So basically you are upset that Sox spent $55M guaranteed on a low ceiling starter in Keuchel when elite guys were available and have now decided to go on this bizarre tangent where you claim everything we’ve done has railroaded our rebuild.  Trying to argue blocking Collins is somehow this egregious offense is funny to me.  I actually like Collins as a prospect, but he not a guy who should just be handed a job, especially with Vaughn right around the corner.  Smart organizations would use him as a versatile bench piece or as minor league depth if they have any realistic chance of competing.  The Yankees did not hesitate bumping a much higher regarded prospect in Frazier down to AAA to add the same 2 to 3 win DH we’re looking at now.

I’m sure you’re response will be we’re not ready to compete and that’s fine if you want to make that argument.  But the front office believes the clock is starting to tick with Moncada & Giolito only left with four years of control and wants to have a roster in place that can win the worst division in baseball if our young guys take big enough steps forward in their development next year.  The Twins executed this such plan to perfection last year without any elite free agents and there is reason to believe we can do the same.  If you’re going to be critical of our individual moves, at least do so under this lens.  Just don’t argue they’ve pushed all their chips in and that they’re all win at all costs moves.

? 

I have been as critical of this FO as anyone, but this new complaint about blocking future prospects by spending money on good players is baffling. Building up your assets by spending money you have, and have been hoarding, is exactly what they should be doing. They are building a team with depth for the first time I can remember. They are preserving their core, while allowing more time for development, and even making players earn it through competition. They are using veteran's to safeguard against the best case scenario. Just because these are foreign concepts to Sox fans doesn't make them wrong.

Having too many options and potentially too many good players will always work itself out. 

5 hours ago, bmags said:

I actually don’t really think you believe this. 

I can't even remember what I was arguing, honestly. Seems like I was trying to say Zack Collins wasn't a bust yet.