7 hours ago, turnin' two said:

There should be some at least yellow flags with La Stella, first of all, former cub, so there's that, but even besides that, I have some concerns.  He has career .754 OPS.  But Turnin, you say, he has been better lately.  Ok that's fair.  But even over the last 3 seasons, an OPS of .787.  That's my first concern.  Secondly, he has never gotten more than 360 PAs in a season, and that was in his rookie season.  Now, this season he played in 55 games and had 228 PA, so maybe that shows he can be an everyday player.  My third concern is that next season will be his age 32 season, is this the time where we expect the best out of a player that has been mostly marginal in his career?  Is he a guy that just figured it out at 30, and will be better?  Or was 2019 some sort of fluke?  He has put up a career bWAR of 4.2 and 5.2 fWAR .

He has hit 21 HRs and 22 doubles over the last 2 seasons, (549 PA).  Is that what you expect from him in a full season?  That is very useful.  He has an .827 OPS over that time.  Pretty darn good.  Though, all of the other seasons in his career, he has hit 50 doubles and 10 homers with a .711 OPS (947 PA).  That, well, isn't a guy you go out and sign expecting much.  Honestly haven't seen him play much, or haven't noticed him at least, but he seems like an average to slightly below average defensive player, though those metrics aren't the best.  

Why should I be interested in him, and especially as a replacement for a guy that is 7 years younger?  Also Madrigal's OBP last year, would have been the 2nd best in La Stella's career (.389 151 PA).  Also what would you have to pay him to sign him?  Madrigal is obviously very cheap.  Now, I'm not completely against trading Madrigal, especially for an TOR starter.  But I'm not getting rid of him for the heck of it.  

So, I guess, I don't really see it on La Stella, what am I missing?  Can you sell me on him?

Well, you hit on it, in this scenario we are replacing Madrigal because he was traded for something hard to acquire. And if the question is who could possibly replace madrigal, well there are three second baseman all whom have high contact profiles (Lemahieu, Wong, LaStella) while offering high walk rates to go with it.

But la stella also offers a LH bat that crushes RH pitching in addition to his low k/high BB% profile, and that's really why I think he'd be the best fit.

But that's just looking for a similar profile. As fathom mentioned, Cesar Hernandez provided good defense, adequate power and a high walk rate that put him on a 4 WAR pace. 

Jonathan Schoop put up a great season last year but at least settles likely into a 2-3 war player. He keeps getting 1 year deals.

Then you have players that can be 2b. Last year Mike Moustakas became a second baseman, now he is one. Didi Gregorius is a safe 3 WAR player, good leadership. 

Profar is available, he put up a .340 obp and has 20 homer power.

And even at the lowest end, you could probably hope that a Jonathan Villar just had a weird 2020 season and gets back to a typical 2-4 WAR on a minor league contract.

So that is 7 second baseman on the market this year. This is a good year do that. But this has also been a position that has been good to "churn" in for the last few years. 

And I realized I didn't even mention the KBO transfer.

7 minutes ago, bmags said:

So that is 7 second baseman on the market this year. This is a good year do that. But this has also been a position that has been good to "churn" in for the last few years. 

Exactly why there is little demand for Madrigal, let alone as centerpiece of Darvish trade package

5 minutes ago, Flash said:

Exactly why there is little demand for Madrigal, let alone as centerpiece of Darvish trade package

Well I totally agree there.

9 hours ago, The Hawk said:

  Madrigal will not be a 2021 all star. He won't be ready to play at Opening Day for starters. Also, the kid is limited to being a singles hitter. He reminds me of another little guy who played 2nd base for the Sox, Nellie Fox. His game fit much better in the 50's and 60's than Madrigal's fits today's game. If Darvish passes a strong  physical, I'd do that trade. They can back-fill second base very easily. Darvish is a stud when healthy. I'd take my chances with him and someone like Quintana on my pitching staff. 

Yeah...those singles hitters that hit .340 in their rookie year are really easy to find.  Give me a break.

Even though I don't support a Darvish trade where we give up too much , I will say that Darvish is about as unique a pitcher as they come. He's got about 6 or 7 pitches he can throw and throw well. That game where he made the Sox look stupid he broke out a cutter he hadn't used since 2017.

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/video/tommy-hottovy-details-where-yu-darvishs-nasty-cutter-against-sox-came

I like the idea of a Darvish trade, although I'm not sure of the likelihood of a Cubs/Sox trade.  I saw someone else mention a package of Darvish and Heyward.  That would take a lot of money off the Cubs' books and essentially fill two holes for the Sox.  While Darvish is a steal with his remaining contract, Heyward is not so much.  I think any deal like that would require some money to change hands.

23 minutes ago, hogan873 said:

I like the idea of a Darvish trade, although I'm not sure of the likelihood of a Cubs/Sox trade.  I saw someone else mention a package of Darvish and Heyward.  That would take a lot of money off the Cubs' books and essentially fill two holes for the Sox.  While Darvish is a steal with his remaining contract, Heyward is not so much.  I think any deal like that would require some money to change hands.

I think you’re throwing around “fills a hole” a bit too easily with Heyward.  He’s bad.  Unless you meant his body physically fills a hole because that’s all one can reasonably project. 

2 hours ago, poppysox said:

Yeah...those singles hitters that hit .340 in their rookie year are really easy to find.  Give me a break.

It was 29 games. 

37 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

I think you’re throwing around “fills a hole” a bit too easily with Heyward.  He’s bad.  Unless you meant his body physically fills a hole because that’s all one can reasonably project. 

Well, he's been good recently but you are absolutely maxing out sox budget at that point and I don't think he adds enough value for that. I do think it's fair to say he'd be "good" just not worth the price at his contract.

7 minutes ago, bmags said:

Well, he's been good recently but you are absolutely maxing out sox budget at that point and I don't think he adds enough value for that. I do think it's fair to say he'd be "good" just not worth the price at his contract.

He's still good defensively. And no team is stacked offensively 1-9. I do think there would need to be some cash changing hands and no Madrigal in that deal.

At he very least, unlike his first year, he is league average offensively. But last year he was great.

Madrigal is good and I would love to keep him but I also understand that his overall production is easily replaceable. If you can get a good pitcher for him, you do it. I would hope the Sox can take advantage of teams trying to cut payroll and not have to include Madrigal but in all likelihood they will. Signing a pitcher is ideal but after Bauer there is a huge drop off. I am for trading Madrigal because:

 

1. Kolten Wong or Tommy La Stella are actually better fits for this team.

and

2. Standing pat with pitching and letting "the kids figure it out" is not an option at this point. It just is what it is. 

 

It's time to put all the chips in.

I must be living under a rock cause I had no idea that Tommy La Stella was that good of a hitter.

Just now, Rowand44 said:

I must be living under a rock cause I had no idea that Tommy La Stella was that good of a hitter.

It started on the LA angels, and yeah, I don't follow west coast baseball that much either but picked up on it from salty cubs fans.

4 minutes ago, Rowand44 said:

I must be living under a rock cause I had no idea that Tommy La Stella was that good of a hitter.

He's not amazing but hes lefty, hits for a decent average (.280 last year) and has a bit of pop.

Edited November 18, 20205 yr by Orlando

3 minutes ago, Orlando said:

He's not amazing but hes Lefty, hits for a decent average (.280 last year) and has a bit of pop.

Ya, was looking at his numbers before I made that post and had no clue he was a plus .800 ops guy 3 of the last 4 seasons.  And I learned something today.

Edit: Guess it's fair to mention that the most ab's he's had in any of those seasons is 321.

Edited November 18, 20205 yr by Rowand44

4 minutes ago, Rowand44 said:

I must be living under a rock cause I had no idea that Tommy La Stella was that good of a hitter.

He's always been a good hitter but a couple years ago he made a swing change that allowed him to get to more power while still keeping his k rate very low.  

11 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

He's always been a good hitter but a couple years ago he made a swing change that allowed him to get to more power while still keeping his k rate very low.  

He is a former Top 100 prospect who never got the chance to play every day with the Cubs.

16 minutes ago, manbearpuig said:

He is a former Top 100 prospect who never got the chance to play every day with the Cubs.

If I remember correctly they liked using him as a pinch hitter because he's very good at hitting velocity.  They may have overthought that one.  

2 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

It was 29 games. 

Yeah...it might have been a little higher once he gets acclimated to the league.  Good point.

Awful lot of energy around a Madrigal trade. Is this still a reaction to Portillo's 'inside info' re: Madrigal to Cubs for Darvish or are we now saying we should try to move Madrigal because there are better 2B options available?

 

 

2 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

 

This guy is a fraud as well...