12 minutes ago, oldsox said:

Any chance that veteran was wrong?

No. And if you looked into the history of his decision to eventually kneel, you would understand. Standing for the national anthem in the NFL is a recent thing.. it's not tied to patriotism is any way shape or form.

33 minutes ago, Chisoxmb35 said:

No. And if you looked into the history of his decision to eventually kneel, you would understand. Standing for the national anthem in the NFL is a recent thing.. it's not tied to patriotism is any way shape or form.

As a man of color, I fully support athletes kneeling during the anthem and all forms of peaceful nonviolent protests. This being said, the argument of using veterans opinions to show that kneeling isn't disrespectful is weak imo for two main reasons. 

1. You can also find just as many vets that say it is disrespectful to kneel during the athem. 

2. Human rights should not be a pick and choose event. It should be acceptable for someone of color, lgbtq, women, etc to protest as they see fit, even during the anthem. This doesn't make them bad people, even if you do not agree it is the right way to protest. 

On the flip side, it is also the right of someone to be against kneeling without being called a racist. We are taught our whole lives that you show respect during the national anthem. You rise, take your hat off, and pay attention. Therefore, people against kneeling have the right to believe it is disrespecting the country, just like kneelers have the right to kneel against discrimination and oppression. Some people against kneeling are racist, but others may in fact just believe in what they were taught. 

I didn't find anything racist about what TLR said, although I disagree with his viewpoint. His comments about Black players and the anthem imo are not racist. I think they are misinformed, but not racist.  

Edited October 19, 20205 yr by SonofaRoache

Just now, Tony said:

And I want to make clear I'm not a fan of this hire and don't want it to happen. But just thinking about it from a realistic standpoint, the situation I described is something that I think could get some fans on board. 

We’re on the same page, and it’s one of the few ideas Stoney hasn’t dismissed 

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

We’re on the same page, and it’s one of the few ideas Stoney hasn’t dismissed 

Agree with both of you seems like the hope we need to hang our hat on.

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

We’re on the same page, and it’s one of the few ideas Stoney hasn’t dismissed 

Said in my post a while ago. It's not for me that he needs to be paired with someone younger, it will be easier to swallow for me if it's clear with the pitching coach and other coaches and player dev staff that their efforts to modernize their player dev does not end on the field. If he's just overseeing accountability and handling the bullpen, I'm sure it will be fine.

2 hours ago, fathom said:

Well said, and I think the most likely scenario right now. I bet we hear Thursday if Tony decides to take the job.

How is this unprecedented decision the most likely scenario?

I don’t know if anyone has posted this yet but it sounds like Hinch is one of the top choices. They just can’t interview him yet until after the World Series so we were going to have to wait anyways. 

https://www.mlb.com/amp/news/white-sox-2021-manager-search.html?tcid=tw_article_&__twitter_impression=true

Edited October 19, 20205 yr by maloney.adam

Hopefully this is all a ruse to get Tony one last big payday somewhere else.

5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Hopefully this is all a ruse to get Tony one last big payday somewhere else.

It's not.

1 hour ago, SonofaRoache said:

As a man of color, I fully support athletes kneeling during the anthem and all forms of peaceful nonviolent protests. This being said, the argument of using veterans opinions to show that kneeling isn't disrespectful is weak imo for two main reasons. 

1. You can also find just as many vets that say it is disrespectful to kneel during the athem. 

2. Human rights should not be a pick and choose event. It should be acceptable for someone of color, lgbtq, women, etc to protest as they see fit, even during the anthem. This doesn't make them bad people, even if you do not agree it is the right way to protest. 

On the flip side, it is also the right of someone to be against kneeling without being called a racist. We are taught our whole lives that you show respect during the national anthem. You rise, take your hat off, and pay attention. Therefore, people against kneeling have the right to believe it is disrespecting the country, just like kneelers have the right to kneel against discrimination and oppression. Some people against kneeling are racist, but others may in fact just believe in what they were taught. 

I didn't find anything racist about what TLR said, although I disagree with his viewpoint. His comments about Black players and the anthem imo are not racist. I think they are misinformed, but not racist.  

Willfull ignorance is not an excuse for bigoted views.

Saying its disrespectful to the veterans while not listening to the actual meaning of it - understanding it has nothing to do with the military - is the problem.

Also, when did the military take over the national anthem again? Did I miss that? TlR was telling a black man how he should and shouldn't protest systemic injustice. He may not have been trying to be racist, but it's actions and people like Tony whose willful ignorance has exasperated and carried on these racist systems for eternity. I'm done making excuses for idiots like that. 

Edited October 19, 20205 yr by Look at Ray Ray Run

4 hours ago, Tony said:

Been thinking about this more. Not an original thought but I'm starting to come around to the idea the Sox can win the PR battle on this if they pair Tony with the right guy. I'll be honest that I don't know a ton about Jirschele, but the Sox have done a good job hyping him up over the last few years and it's a name Sox fans seem to be excited about. 

If the Sox want to go outside the box with TLR, they should go all-in on it. Keep Joe McEwing on as bench coach if you want, hire TLR as Manager and name Jirschele "Assistant Manager." Let people know that Tony is the guy right now, but given the "unique" circumstances (Of TLR being 1000 years old), they also need to look to the future and Jirschele is a guy they have incredibly high hopes for. Let Jirschele get his feet wet at the big league level without it all being thrown on him at once. 

I think you can sell that, and I'd be somewhat on board with it all. 

LaRussa= Desperately Seeking Playoffs.

Hiring Tony LaRussa reminds me of the Robin Ventura hire. That was interesting - for about a day. After that, it wasn't so interesting. Plus the Hawkeroo is all for it. That is another reason not to do it. Seems like Hawkeroo and JR have guilt feelings about 1986. They shouldn't. Tony landed on his feet and ended up in the Hall. Say no to Tony and move on already.

Hiring TLR as the manager would be a disaster. He is way past his prime and may not be able to get through to the players. The game has changed soo much since TLR has last managed. Let’s move forward not backwards.

Edited October 19, 20205 yr by maloney.adam

2 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Willfull ignorance is not an excuse for bigoted views.

Saying its disrespectful to the veterans while not listening to the actual meaning of it - understanding it has nothing to do with the military - is the problem.

Also, when did the military take over the national anthem again? Did I miss that? TlR was telling a black man how he should and shouldn't protest systemic injustice. He may not have been trying to be racist, but it's actions and people like Tony whose willful ignorance has exasperated and carried on these racist systems for eternity. I'm done making excuses for idiots like that. 

Ignorance also does not equate racist. He understands why people are protesting as do others against kneeling, bigots and non bigots alike. It is reasonable to think it is disrespecting the military when you watch games and see the military saluting and being honored before and after the anthem. At sporting events you always see the flag when the military is present on the field to some capacity. When a war hero dies, a flag is often times placed near the casket or wrapped around the casket. When my lifelong navy serving uncle died, flags were all over his funeral. Not once have I seen a flag at another non serving person's funeral. Ignorance needs to be corrected in this scenario, but it does not equate to racist. It is very reasonable to equate the flag to the military when it is done so quite often in this country. Telling a black man how he should and shouldn't protest racism is wrong but not racist. Telling someone that they cannot find an action someone does wrong is also wrong. Especially when the word racist is used. 

Edited October 19, 20205 yr by SonofaRoache

5 hours ago, Chisoxmb35 said:

Patriotism? Gmafb. Kap asked a VETERAN what the most respectful way to protest was and the veteran told him kneeling. You have no clue what you're talking about if you think kneeling is anti patriotic or has ANYTHING to do with patriotism. It quite simply doesn't.

Reading comprehension isnt your strong suit.  From tonys perspective, he finds it unpatriotic to see people kneeling for the flag or during the anthem. This has nothing to do with the prospective of the kneeler. Tonys perspective on this is also the same perspective of the VFW and American Legion.  Are these organizations racist?

4 hours ago, SonofaRoache said:

As a man of color, I fully support athletes kneeling during the anthem and all forms of peaceful nonviolent protests. This being said, the argument of using veterans opinions to show that kneeling isn't disrespectful is weak imo for two main reasons. 

1. You can also find just as many vets that say it is disrespectful to kneel during the athem. 

2. Human rights should not be a pick and choose event. It should be acceptable for someone of color, lgbtq, women, etc to protest as they see fit, even during the anthem. This doesn't make them bad people, even if you do not agree it is the right way to protest. 

On the flip side, it is also the right of someone to be against kneeling without being called a racist. We are taught our whole lives that you show respect during the national anthem. You rise, take your hat off, and pay attention. Therefore, people against kneeling have the right to believe it is disrespecting the country, just like kneelers have the right to kneel against discrimination and oppression. Some people against kneeling are racist, but others may in fact just believe in what they were taught. 

I didn't find anything racist about what TLR said, although I disagree with his viewpoint. His comments about Black players and the anthem imo are not racist. I think they are misinformed, but not racist.  

I think we share a lot of agreement on this. I think ultimately whether you agree with players kneeling during the anthem comes down on your perspective, not on whether one side is informed and the other misinformed. There is evidence to support both sides.

what bothers me is when posters, plenty in this thread, take a statement like tonys and blow it up into claiming its a sign hes a racist. Its intellectually dishonest at best, and at worst really speaks to the character of the poster having an incredibly negative outlook of other people. 

i dont agree with those that are kneeling. I acknowledge that many have experienced anecdotal and personal experiences of racism. But i dont agree with the manner of protest, and further, i dont agree that their experiences trump impersonal data and statistics that there is a systemic issue of racism in this country.  But that doesnt mean i think theyre bad people. Its a disagreement. People should be able to discuss these types of disagreements without one side demonizing the other.  

Edited October 19, 20205 yr by ChiSox1917

2 hours ago, NWINFan said:

Hiring Tony LaRussa reminds me of the Robin Ventura hire. That was interesting - for about a day. After that, it wasn't so interesting. Plus the Hawkeroo is all for it. That is another reason not to do it. Seems like Hawkeroo and JR have guilt feelings about 1986. They shouldn't. Tony landed on his feet and ended up in the Hall. Say no to Tony and move on already.

I think theres a pretty big difference between a top 10 manager of all time and robin ventura

We’re not going to hear anything until after the World Series this year. The candidate list includes at least one person coaching in the World Series. 

7 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

The candidate list includes at least one person coaching in the World Series. 

That’s a nice thing to hear and I think we all know who that could be.

3 minutes ago, hi8is said:

That’s a nice thing to hear and I think we all know who that could be.

Quatraro?

3 minutes ago, bmags said:

Quatraro?

Mark Prior, of course.

44 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

We’re not going to hear anything until after the World Series this year. The candidate list includes at least one person coaching in the World Series. 

It’s either Dave Roberts or Matt Quatraro.

Edited October 19, 20205 yr by maloney.adam

33 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

It’s either Dave Roberts or Matt Quatraro.

Dave Roberts won't be leaving the Dodgers after reaching the WSeries IMO. Cmon are we at this point that a manager must win it all or get fired? I say no. The guy is the NL champion and he did a nice job letting that guy pitch the last 3 innings rather than bring in somebody for the 9th.

Edited October 20, 20205 yr by greg775

1 hour ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

We’re not going to hear anything until after the World Series this year. The candidate list includes at least one person coaching in the World Series. 

Got to be Quatraro

1 hour ago, greg775 said:

Dave Roberts won't be leaving the Dodgers after reaching the WSeries IMO. Cmon are we at this point that a manager must win it all or get fired? I say no. The guy is the NL champion and he did a nice job letting that guy pitch the last 3 innings rather than bring in somebody for the 9th.

I said it’s either Dave Roberts or Matt Quatraro. The either was the key word. Obviously your too stuck in la la land about TLR to even read my post carefully. I would be all for a Roberts hire but did I say he is a candidate? No, I was only mentioning it as an option or a possibility. 

Edited October 20, 20205 yr by maloney.adam