1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

He posted the 7th highest fWAR among position players this year.  Even with him being 30 the ask will be very because he’s controllable for the next five years and is dirt cheap.

Giants are not selling this offseason from all accounts. Santander makes more sense.

It's too late now but would love to have Arozarena, another Cuban, patrolling RF. Cardinals seemed like they gave up on him and he has been amazing this postseason. 

2 hours ago, fathom said:

Giants are not selling this offseason from all accounts. Santander makes more sense.

Soxtalk routinely acts like mets and giants are sellers despite all evidence to contrary.

 

1 hour ago, HoosierSox said:

It's too late now but would love to have Arozarena, another Cuban, patrolling RF. Cardinals seemed like they gave up on him and he has been amazing this postseason. 

When that trade happened we all opined for Liberatore. Rays are just such a good org. 

Springer-watch begins 

1 hour ago, HakunaMachado said:

Springer-watch begins 

Yeah we’ll all watch him resign with the Astros. 

10 hours ago, bmags said:

Soxtalk routinely acts like mets and giants are sellers despite all evidence to contrary.

 

Why in the world would the giants not be sellers??  

Edited October 18, 20205 yr by iWiN4PreP

15 hours ago, fathom said:

Giants are not selling this offseason from all accounts. Santander makes more sense.

Yaz and Santander the guys I brought up weeks ago. Of course Baltimore in a rebuild not likely to give up Santander either but I'm sure FO will make inquiries on both.

12 hours ago, bmags said:

Soxtalk routinely acts like mets and giants are sellers despite all evidence to contrary.

 

Making trades is different from being sellers. Trades are supposed to be equal. Teams sometimes sell high on an unexpectedly good asset.

6 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Making trades is different from being sellers. Trades are supposed to be equal. Teams sometimes sell high on an unexpectedly good asset.

Which makes them expensive to acquire and not a great option for the Sox. I’m not throwing away a bunch of prospect currency to pry Mike Yaz away from SFG

2 hours ago, iWiN4PreP said:

Why in the world would the giants not be sellers??  

I think giants owners said a couple times they don't want a full tank rebuild. 

28 minutes ago, bmags said:

Which makes them expensive to acquire and not a great option for the Sox. I’m not throwing away a bunch of prospect currency to pry Mike Yaz away from SFG

You know if Yaz had done this for the Sox everyone would be saying he's a fluke and not worth anything. Much like McCann until McCann proved he wasn't a fluke but you still had people here saying playing McCann more would've likely exposed him to showing what he truly is. Of course that kind of thinking probably was part of the reason why RR was fired. In the shortened season McCann had almost 100 less AB's than Yas.

I know the guy put up really good WAR numbers but you have to see what SF is asking . They need pitching. They will probably lose Gausman and maybe a QO makes Gausman think about staying. Maybe a guy like Cease would be appealing to them. They are trying to compete. I'm sure they will be looking for MLB talent mostly.

Edited October 18, 20205 yr by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

12 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

You know if Yaz had done this for the Sox everyone would be saying he's a fluke and not worth anything. Much like McCann until McCann proved he wasn't a fluke but you still had people here saying playing McCann more would've likely exposed him to showing what he truly is. Of course that kind of thinking probably was part of the reason why RR was fired. In the shortened season McCann had almost 100 less AB's than Yas.

I know the guy put up really good WAR numbers but you have to see what SF is asking . They need pitching. They will probably lose Gausman and maybe a QO makes Gausman think about staying. Maybe a guy like Cease would be appealing to them. They are trying to compete. I'm sure they will be looking for MLB talent mostly.

There’s a couple things I don’t like about this: 

- If we are trading mlb “ready” pitching like cease to me it’s only to get an immediate upgrade on pitching. 
- your assessment of Yaz is that of a player we’d buy at his ceiling and likely to decline.

There are plenty of RF options and I’d hate to lose a piece like cease that could be used to buy better pitching

13 minutes ago, bmags said:

There’s a couple things I don’t like about this: 

- If we are trading mlb “ready” pitching like cease to me it’s only to get an immediate upgrade on pitching. 
- your assessment of Yaz is that of a player we’d buy at his ceiling and likely to decline.

There are plenty of RF options and I’d hate to lose a piece like cease that could be used to buy better pitching

While I am in agreement that pitching is priority 1 that option is more likely to be pursued via the FA market. Cease becomes more expendable if and only if the Sox can upgrade pitching that way. They will still have Dunning. Kopech will be coming back.Crochet will need to be tried as a starter . There's still Stiever, Dahlquist and Thompson, Lambert. There is some hope that a new pitching coach may change the fortunes of Cease and Lopez. So yes I'd like to get the pitching settled before making a play for a RF. Yaz becoming a good ML OF was about as likely as Luis Gonzalez becoming one. He only has slightly less than 600 ML AB's and just turned 30.

I suppose I am still a bit perplexed about while we were in a rebuild the Giants found a gem while the Sox didn't. The Sox tried to find a LHH gem but they all seemed to be lumbering 1st base types like Palka, Skole, AJ Reed, Alonzo or OF's like Charlie Tilson, Delmonico, John Jay or righties Cordell, Trayce Thompson, Willy Garcia, Rymer Liriano, Jacob May, Ryan LaMarre . Even though we didn't get Machado, the Alonso and Jay moves could've hurt the Sox pursuit of more young players and was a waste of cash. That's a whole lot of failure when you look at 3 years of rebuilding. Then again if the Sox had got Yas maybe their coaches don't bring out of him what the Giant coaches did.

Anyway so yeah we'd be buying high but its not like Yas has a long track record and while he does have lots of years of control left they are more than likely going to be on the downside of his career. Cease has a lot of upside but we still have people here thinking he's the same as Lopez. Maybe the Sox hang onto Rodon. Some people here think he could easily get an MLB contract next year worth as much as $5M a year if non-tendered. I don't . But perhaps Cease and Rodon would entice the Giants. Or just Cease alone.

I'm not locked in on Yas I'd certainly be willing to explore Anthony Santander. That kid may be on the cusp of becoming a star but it's hard to know that. Baltimore probably wants youth more than the Giants do.

4 hours ago, iWiN4PreP said:

Why in the world would the giants not be sellers??  

You could ask this question after any season the last like 3 years.

2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Cease becomes more expendable if and only if the Sox can upgrade pitching that way.

I would think Cease has ceased to be a prime prospect. Why would anybody think he's gonna be anything but just another guy after watching him pitch?

1 minute ago, greg775 said:

I would think Cease has ceased to be a prime prospect. Why would anybody think he's gonna be anything but just another guy after watching him pitch?

Greg he is only going to be 25 next year. He must have tried new things this year that didn't work. He went from striking out 10 per 9 innings in 2019  to 6.8 this year. That's a steep drop off. It doesn't appear his stuff got any worse. I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong. Like many young pitchers he just doesn't have the command yet to take the next step . Whatever he did this year failed pretty badly but he still has only 131 innings in MLB . That's not even a full season . He could become Walker Buehler or Reynaldo Lopez . Even though most have given up on Lopez he still has plenty of potential. There's always some missing piece. Giolito found his pieces he needed. So can Cease.

43 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Greg he is only going to be 25 next year. He must have tried new things this year that didn't work. He went from striking out 10 per 9 innings in 2019  to 6.8 this year. That's a steep drop off. It doesn't appear his stuff got any worse. I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong. Like many young pitchers he just doesn't have the command yet to take the next step . Whatever he did this year failed pretty badly but he still has only 131 innings in MLB . That's not even a full season . He could become Walker Buehler or Reynaldo Lopez . Even though most have given up on Lopez he still has plenty of potential. There's always some missing piece. Giolito found his pieces he needed. So can Cease.

I'll buy what you are selling. I don't hate Cease but his lines in the box score were so pedestrian, so ugly. Hopefully the new pitching coach can help him. Lopez has been so so bad. Ditto him working with the new pitching coach hopefully.

It looked to me like Cease was afraid to put the ball over the plate.

Cease stop using the curve. Use the curve.

On 10/18/2020 at 11:29 AM, greg775 said:

I would think Cease has ceased to be a prime prospect. Why would anybody think he's gonna be anything but just another guy after watching him pitch?

The most important guy that the Sox will add in this off-season may in actuality be the new pitching coach. Cease has got a multi-million dollar arm but his lower half mechanically sucks. This should be pretty fixable but he needs to throw strikes with command.

23 minutes ago, The Hawk said:

The most important guy that the Sox will add in this off-season may in actuality be the new pitching coach. Cease has got a multi-million dollar arm but his lower half mechanically sucks. This should be pretty fixable but he needs to throw strikes with command.

I'd thought that this was the case with both the hire, and with Cease.

 

I also wondered if the cavalcade of failures to develop Rodon, then Lopez, and now  Cease were some of the reasons for Cooper no longer being here. In any case, I'd prefer for Cease to start 2021 in Charlotte/Schaumburg, learning to use his curveball again, and getting his shitty bb/9 below ~3 or so.

Wouldn't say rodon was a failure of development. 15-18 he was a solid pitcher averaging a 4.01 ERA and 1.7 bWAR. That is not fantastic but basically a good 4 starter or mediocre 3 starter. 

He already was not durable averaging only 124 innings but was generally an effective pitcher. 

Then injuries got worse and he was very bad in 19 and 20 albeit it was only like 40 innings combined. 

So he maybe was not what you expect from such a high pick but he was generally a solid pitcher who was ruined by injuries. 

So unless you attribute the injuries to the training or mechanics not optimized by the Sox you can't attribute his decline to bad development. 

4 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Engel!

   I think that a platoon of Engel and Mazara will be okay next year. Engel is also a great defensive outfielder and Mazara I think is better than average over-all. 

5 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Engel!

I think it says a lot that the White Sox didn’t trust him enough to play him over Mazara even when he was clearly playing better. 

No one, and I mean no one on this planet, hates Rick Hahn trades more than me. But if we can’t afford to sign both a RF and a starting pitcher of the caliber that will make us a threat to the Rays and Yankees and Astros, let alone the freaking Dodgers with Betts, then now might be the time to trade for a real one. Can another GM make the deal for us?

This remains a league of superteams. You want to beat a super team, you build a super team.