Hopefully the trades referenced above lead to a World Series like these four:

1. Mariners: Freddy Garcia for Olivio, Reed and Morse.

2. Yankees: Jose Contreras for Loaiza.

3. Cubs: Garland for Karchner.

4. Brewers: Podsednik and Vizcaino for Carlos Lee.

 

18 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I'd much rather just sign pitching when all it costs is money.  

This for sure.  I would rather pay full price for Trever Bauer than give up any assets for Blake Snell.

Just now, South Side Hit Men said:

Hopefully the trades referenced above lead to a World Series like these four:

1. Mariners: Freddy Garcia for Olivio, Reed and Morse.

2. Yankees: Jose Contreras for Loaiza.

3. Cubs: Garland for Karchner.

4. Brewers: Podsednik and Vizcaino for Carlos Lee.

 

The Esteban Loiaza signing might be the best butterfly affect in the franchise history.

16 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Reading up on his injury history and really have no idea what he’d be worth.  I knew he hadn’t pitched in some time, but that is a brutal stretch of injuries and there really aren’t any good comps.  With no options left maybe they would be willing to throw him.  Just crazy how he went from a Kopech type prospect to potentially nothing in a blink of an eye.

Makes you think.

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

This for sure.  I would rather pay full price for Trever Bauer than give up any assets for Blake Snell.

All of us would, the problem is Uncle Jerry probably doesn’t agree.

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

This for sure.  I would rather pay full price for Trever Bauer than give up any assets for Blake Snell.

Completely agree. Does Jerry though? That is the $64k(or million) question. 

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

This for sure.  I would rather pay full price for Trever Bauer than give up any assets for Blake Snell.

Does anyone know what length of deal Bauer wants? I remember people saying he wanted one or two year deals. I'm assuming this may have changed after winning the CY Young. 

1 minute ago, SonofaRoache said:

Does anyone know what length of deal Bauer wants? I remember people saying he wanted one or two year deals. I'm assuming this may have changed after winning the CY Young. 

He has a lot of pressure from the MLBPA to get the best deal in this particular season, leading up to labor negotiations. 

Honestly, Jerry has no qualms paying his own players top dollar but he'd rather not do it for a player from another organization. 

I really hope bucket is right about Giolito reaching Buehrle status with the org. 

Edited December 4, 20205 yr by Jack Parkman

1 minute ago, SonofaRoache said:

Does anyone know what length of deal Bauer wants? I remember people saying he wanted one or two year deals. I'm assuming this may have changed after winning the CY Young. 

Here's my psychoanalysis of bauer and I believe I'm right.

This free agency is about validation for Bauer. He sees himself as a top pitcher. He's saying all the right things to not let baggage drag him down. He's put in a ton of work and this is an area where he expects to see the feedback live up to that.

So if you give him a one year deal that makes him the best paid pitcher in baseball? I think he'd sign it. Meaning, if you put 1 yr $38 million on the table? That makes him higher paid than trout, and I think he'd sign it.

So then you have to think about AAVs or total salary.

Top AAVs by pitcher

Cole - $36 million AAV Total $324 mill

Scherzer - $35.9 million AAV // Total $210 million

Greinke - $35 million AAV // Total $206.5 million

Strasburg - $35 million AAV // Total $245 million

Verlander - $33 million AAV // Total $66 million

Price - $32 million AAV // Total $217 million

He thinks he's a top 5 pitcher. These are top 5 pitcher salaries. I don't think anyone is getting him the $200+ million this year.

But it's possible he gets a 4 yr deal if they put him at $35 mill or above.

My .02. This is going to seem high to people, but I still think he hits these levels of $30 mill +

 

 

11 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The Esteban Loiaza signing might be the best butterfly affect in the franchise history.

A month after the trade, I had the pleasure to watch in person the worst loss in Yankees history, 22-0 vs. Cleveland on an East Coast baseball road trip. Future White Sox starter, and perennial Kenny Williams obsession Javier Vazquez started, Loaiza ended it. It was awesome. 
 

They went on to choke away a 3-0 series lead against Boston several weeks later.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/NYA/NYA200408310.shtml

https://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/01/sports/baseball/yankees-slide-to-a-newlow-against-indians-220.html

 

Edited December 4, 20205 yr by South Side Hit Men

21 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

He has a lot of pressure from the MLBPA to get the best deal in this particular season, leading up to labor negotiations. 

Honestly, Jerry has no qualms paying his own players top dollar but he'd rather not do it for a player from another organization. 

I really hope bucket is right about Giolito reaching Buehrle status with the org. 

I don't Bauer as the kind to GAF what anyone tells him.

Bauer’s agent was kissing up to Cohen big time in his latest vlog.

25 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The Esteban Loiaza signing might be the best butterfly affect in the franchise history.

Worked out great for him too.  Heard he's done great things after baseball.

51 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Why is he more of a risk post TJS?  He’s already shown his velocity is back.

That's not the only thing to worry about. I feel he will be ok but TJ raises more potential long term issues. 

Either way, for Snell it's an easy loss for me.

Just now, Rowand44 said:

Worked out great for him too.  Heard he's done great things after baseball.

Talk about a dude who was at his best when he was dealing.

17 minutes ago, bmags said:

Here's my psychoanalysis of bauer and I believe I'm right.

This free agency is about validation for Bauer. He sees himself as a top pitcher. He's saying all the right things to not let baggage drag him down. He's put in a ton of work and this is an area where he expects to see the feedback live up to that.

So if you give him a one year deal that makes him the best paid pitcher in baseball? I think he'd sign it. Meaning, if you put 1 yr $38 million on the table? That makes him higher paid than trout, and I think he'd sign it.

So then you have to think about AAVs or total salary.

Top AAVs by pitcher

Cole - $36 million AAV Total $324 mill

Scherzer - $35.9 million AAV // Total $210 million

Greinke - $35 million AAV // Total $206.5 million

Strasburg - $35 million AAV // Total $245 million

Verlander - $33 million AAV // Total $66 million

Price - $32 million AAV // Total $217 million

He thinks he's a top 5 pitcher. These are top 5 pitcher salaries. I don't think anyone is getting him the $200+ million this year.

But it's possible he gets a 4 yr deal if they put him at $35 mill or above.

My .02. This is going to seem high to people, but I still think he hits these levels of $30 mill +

 

 

If Bauer is only getting something like 4/$140M we should be all over that.  I know it’s a huge AAV ($10M than we offered Wheeler), but you erase most of the downside risk of paying top dollar for clear declining years.  Honestly, if you told me right now I could have that and Joc on a 2/$20M deal but nothing else, I’d be more than 100% ok with that as our entire offseason.  Bauer is a legit perfect free agent for us and it will be a shame if / when he goes elsewhere.

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

Talk about a dude who was at his best when he was dealing.

Well done, sir.

43 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I'd much rather just sign pitching when all it costs is money.  

First and foremost, I try to sign Bauer.

If you can't, I just sign two guys out of the Quintana/Happ/Paxton/Richards/Kluber/Archer group.  Maybe try to give Rodon a cheap deal as 7th starter/bullpen help insurance if the bridge isn't burned.

I'd be open to trades, but not one that is going to require moving top end guys - which Snell would.  

10 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

First and foremost, I try to sign Bauer.

If you can't, I just sign two guys out of the Quintana/Happ/Paxton/Richards/Kluber/Archer group.  Maybe try to give Rodon a cheap deal as 7th starter/bullpen help insurance if the bridge isn't burned.

I'd be open to trades, but not one that is going to require moving top end guys - which Snell would.  

This is exactly where I'm at.

Anyone have any rumors on what teams are strongly interested in bauer? I.e. talking to him etc?

1 hour ago, Orlando said:

Kopech seems like someone the Rays will unlock immediately 

I don't know that that is someone the Rays will unlock immediately - I think Kopech is extremely special.  He will unlock himself anywhere he goes and unless the Sox legitimately don't believe he has interest in baseball, I would absolutely not trade him.  He is a true TOR prospect who has plenty of control left and while he may not be as helpful this year and injuries and COVID opt-out set his timeline back, having a COST CONTROLLED TOR guy like that will be huge as the Sox continue to contend and push for the series for a number of years.  

Kopech is on my do not trade list, unless Sox are getting a cost-controlled horse of an ace (and obviously that will take more than Kopech).  Snell is good - but I don't think of him as a true-ace (but that might be because i still think aces should be able to pitch 200+ innings a year, etc).  Maybe no ace will do that next year - cause we have to manage COVID workloads after a season with lighter innings pitched - but in general.  

19 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

If Bauer is only getting something like 4/$140M we should be all over that.  I know it’s a huge AAV ($10M than we offered Wheeler), but you erase most of the downside risk of paying top dollar for clear declining years.  Honestly, if you told me right now I could have that and Joc on a 2/$20M deal but nothing else, I’d be more than 100% ok with that as our entire offseason.  Bauer is a legit perfect free agent for us and it will be a shame if / when he goes elsewhere.

I'll go one step farther - if all the Sox did was get Bauer and just say we are going to go sit around and just grab a vet who sits in the market for RF (to platoon with Engel - not even a Joc type) - I would be 1000% exstatic.  It keeps the Sox so well positioned to either make future trades at the deadline and/or bring up more waves later this year, next year, etc.  

Just now, Chisoxfn said:

I'll go one step farther - if all the Sox did was get Bauer and just say we are going to go sit around and just grab a vet who sits in the market for RF (to platoon with Engel - not even a Joc type) - I would be 1000% exstatic.  It keeps the Sox so well positioned to either make future trades at the deadline and/or bring up more waves later this year, next year, etc.  

Fully agree.

22 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

First and foremost, I try to sign Bauer.

If you can't, I just sign two guys out of the Quintana/Happ/Paxton/Richards/Kluber/Archer group.  Maybe try to give Rodon a cheap deal as 7th starter/bullpen help insurance if the bridge isn't burned.

I'd be open to trades, but not one that is going to require moving top end guys - which Snell would.  

^^^^^^

3 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

I'll go one step farther - if all the Sox did was get Bauer and just say we are going to go sit around and just grab a vet who sits in the market for RF (to platoon with Engel - not even a Joc type) - I would be 1000% exstatic.  It keeps the Sox so well positioned to either make future trades at the deadline and/or bring up more waves later this year, next year, etc.  

I would agree with that.  If JR/KW/RH came out and said we made this one move, but with Covidonomics that is all we can spend, I would be thrilled.