25 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

It doesn't sound like it's going to be an easy sum.  4 years for a reliever is outragous. 

 I like Bradley.  He has good stuff and closing experience.  I think there's another gear in there too.  He's the type of guy that can catch fire and throw the absolute shit out of it for a year Cliff Politte style.  

If teams were offering 4 years he would have signed by now. But if Hendriks was a FA in 2018, he would have a $60 mill plus deal. 

10 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

If the Sox sign Hendriks, Richards, & Schwarber are they the favorites to be AL champions next year?

...and all the great posts that followed.

Add Kurt Suzuki.

If Hendricks is the only big splash over Brantley, Richards would be an astute signing either way, but Schwarber gives me the heebee-jeebees.  He brings to mind Dunn and LaRoche.  He's kind of in that same mold; ~ .250 BA, high strikeouts, NL to AL.  His quality OBS is due, in large part, to a high walk rate.  That's fine but but I'd rather see an impressive DH OPS based more on BA than BB.  An alternative could be Daniel Murphy if he's willing to lay down the leather for the most part.  He could possibly make the NL->AL easier because he's such a good hitter.   And he could be a 1B backup along with 2B or 3B in an extreme pinch.  He doesn't have the same power #'s but his K's are ~half of Schwarber's and would put the ball in play a lot more.  He might be 2-4 $M cheaper, as well, making a Suzuki signing easier.

14 hours ago, Rounding_Third said:

He fits very well.  He and Eloy can take turns in left as long as both bats are in the lineup most every day keeping both fresh and engaged.  He's a leader, winner, clutch vet, professional, class act.  He reminds me a lot of Bears' Allen Robinson. Vaughn needs another year in AA or AAA.  Sox are going all in this year.  I doubt they would then turn over their every day DH to a single A .250 hitter.  Its not fair to the team and not fair to him.  We desperately need a lefty bat anyway or be challenged by right handed pitching again. 

I agree but I've like Brantley forever and I was hoping the Sox signed him last time he was available and could still play RF cromulently.

I'm also not real sure you can call playing every day over Vaughn blocking him. I have no doubt Brantley would contribute more to the Sox than Vaughn would for at least the 1st year and maybe even a 2nd year. It's a proven LH bat , OBP guy with some pop vs a RH bat, no MLB experience , no experience higher than A+. If Vaughn is so hot, let him tear up the minors for a while. Brantley can always be moved if Vaughn forces his way into contention for a starting job.

9 minutes ago, Rounding_Third said:

...and all the great posts that followed.

Add Kurt Suzuki.

If Hendricks is the only big splash over Brantley, Richards would be an astute signing either way, but Schwarber gives me the heebee-jeebees.  He brings to mind Dunn and LaRoche.  He's kind of in that same mold; ~ .250 BA, high strikeouts, NL to AL.  His quality OBS is due, in large part, to a high walk rate.  That's fine but but I'd rather see an impressive DH OPS based more on BA than BB.  An alternative could be Daniel Murphy if he's willing to lay down the leather for the most part.  He could possibly make the NL->AL easier because he's such a good hitter.   And he could be a 1B backup along with 2B or 3B in an extreme pinch.  He doesn't have the same power #'s but his K's are ~half of Schwarber's and would put the ball in play a lot more.  He might be 2-4 $M cheaper, as well, making a Suzuki signing easier.

You are a quality new member. Probably because I agree with some things you say. I too value BA more than most people and the less swing and miss approach. Any way you get on base is great but getting on via a hit accomplishes more.

2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I agree but I've like Brantley forever and I was hoping the Sox signed him last time he was available and could still play RF cromulently.

I'm also not real sure you can call playing every day over Vaughn blocking him. I have no doubt Brantley would contribute more to the Sox than Vaughn would for at least the 1st year and maybe even a 2nd year. It's a proven LH bat , OBP guy with some pop vs a RH bat, no MLB experience , no experience higher than A+. If Vaughn is so hot, let him tear up the minors for a while. Brantley can always be moved if Vaughn forces his way into contention for a starting job.

Did you copy the right post?   We're in the same choir.  

Just now, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

You are a quality new member. Probably because I agree with some things you say. I too value BA more than most people and the less swing and miss approach. Any way you get on base is great but getting on via a hit accomplishes more.

Also players with high batting averages have consistently good approaches at the plate and are more likely to not swing at bad pitches. They may not have the consistent power to have high OPS' but they are indeed useful. 

15 minutes ago, bmags said:

If teams were offering 4 years he would have signed by now. But if Hendriks was a FA in 2018, he would have a $60 mill plus deal. 

I don't think the first part is true.  If multiple teams are offering 4 years why not wait it out for a higher AAV?  If you're the guy at the top of the market there's no reason to rush it. 

The second part is nauseating.  

16 minutes ago, Rounding_Third said:

...and all the great posts that followed.

Add Kurt Suzuki.

If Hendricks is the only big splash over Brantley, Richards would be an astute signing either way, but Schwarber gives me the heebee-jeebees.  He brings to mind Dunn and LaRoche.  He's kind of in that same mold; ~ .250 BA, high strikeouts, NL to AL.  His quality OBS is due, in large part, to a high walk rate.  That's fine but but I'd rather see an impressive DH OPS based more on BA than BB.  An alternative could be Daniel Murphy if he's willing to lay down the leather for the most part.  He could possibly make the NL->AL easier because he's such a good hitter.   And he could be a 1B backup along with 2B or 3B in an extreme pinch.  He doesn't have the same power #'s but his K's are ~half of Schwarber's and would put the ball in play a lot more.  He might be 2-4 $M cheaper, as well, making a Suzuki signing easier.

Dunn was a problem because he was brought here to be a main part of our lineup. Bringing in Schwarber wouldn't be as devastating because he'd be a bottom of the order guy with less pressure on him. I'd take a lower average from him if he slugs right handers well. I also like that Schwarber has competed in the playoffs and for a division title 6 years running. He is battle tested and that means a lot on a young team like ours that hasn't played in the real playoffs yet. 

. 

5 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I don't think the first part is true.  If multiple teams are offering 4 years why not wait it out for a higher AAV?  If you're the guy at the top of the market there's no reason to rush it. 

The second part is nauseating.  

Well, if lesser guys start signing then you run the risk of only having one or two suitors. In this economy,that means your market value could crater. 

7 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

You are a quality new member. Probably because I agree with some things you say. I too value BA more than most people and the less swing and miss approach. Any way you get on base is great but getting on via a hit accomplishes more.

Thank you sir! You as well!  Looking forward to many fine and perhaps heated discussions amongst you all.    

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Zero reason to add another starter to a multi year deal at this point if you have any hopes / plans of extending Lynn.

THis team needs another starter badly for 2021.  I will believe the extension talk when I see it.

14 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

Dunn was a problem because he was brought here to be a main part of our lineup. Bringing in Schwarber wouldn't be as devastating because he'd be a bottom of the order guy with less pressure on him. I'd take a lower average from him if he slugs right handers well. I also like that Schwarber has competed in the playoffs and for a division title 6 years running. He is battle tested and that means a lot on a young team like ours that hasn't played in the real playoffs yet. 

. 

True enough about Kyle.  But perhaps LH DH should be considered to be a main part.  That position has eluded us since Thome and was our Achilles heel last year.  I'd like to see a LH DH inserted before or after Eloy (5th or 6th).  Not sure if  they could do that with Kyle, maybe, but certainly with Brantley and even Murphy.

Edited December 18, 20205 yr by Rounding_Third

13 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

Well, if lesser guys start signing then you run the risk of only having one or two suitors. In this economy,that means your market value could crater. 

and until that actually starts happening there is no reason for him to rush into anything.  

21 minutes ago, Rounding_Third said:

True enough about Kyle.  But perhaps LH DH should be considered to be a main part.  That position has eluded us since Thome and was our Achilles heel last year.  I'd like to see a LH DH inserted before or after Eloy (5th or 6th).  Not sure if  they could do that with Kyle, maybe, but certainly with Brantley and even Murphy.

The dynamics of our team won't let that happen until probably 2023. We have Vaughn coming up soon so the only chance of getting a quality LH DH long term is after Abreu leaves. For the season of 2021, we have to make good with what we have. In 2021, our big hitters are gonna be Tim, Yoan, Jose, Eloy, Robert, and Yasmani. Anything else on top of that will be a cherry. 

23 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

and until that actually starts happening there is no reason for him to rush into anything.  

I agree with you but it could go sideways for him. Let's say his hypothetical market is the Mets, Sox, Angels, and Nationals. If the Mets and Nationals sign Colome and Yates tomorrow, he has no time to re-evaluate. If it is down to the Sox and Angels, they may even reduce their offers to 2 or 3 years. 

12 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

The dynamics of our team won't let that happen until probably 2023. We have Vaughn coming up soon so the only chance of getting a quality LH DH long term is after Abreu leaves. For the season of 2021, we have to make good with what we have. In 2021, our big hitters are gonna be Tim, Yoan, Jose, Eloy, Robert, and Yasmani. Anything else on top of that will be a cherry. 

I'm not ready to stamp Vaughn yet.  .250 BA in A ball doesn't get me excited yet.  Let's see how he does at Charlotte or Birmingham in 2021.  Hopefully he excels! But I've seem too many "can't miss"'s miss.   Hopefully, that core will improve on their production and sub .500 record against RHP.  That being said, I'd still favor signing Brantley for 2 years with option or Murphy over Schwarber for 1 yr w/opt.  Any other similar candidates that you know of?  

3 minutes ago, Rounding_Third said:

I'm not ready to stamp Vaughn yet.  .250 BA in A ball doesn't get me excited yet.  Let's see how he does at Charlotte or Birmingham in 2021.  Hopefully he excels! But I've seem too many "can't miss"'s miss.   Hopefully, that core will improve on their production and sub .500 record against RHP.  That being said, I'd still favor signing Brantley for 2 years with option or Murphy over Schwarber for 1 yr w/opt.  Any other similar candidates that you know of?  

I don't think stats from 50 games during somebody's draft season should ever be referenced. 

Vaughn is one of the best college hitters in the last 10 years...and that's not hyperbole. I'm not too worried about him.

13 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

I don't think stats from 50 games during somebody's draft season should ever be referenced. 

Vaughn is one of the best college hitters in the last 10 years...and that's not hyperbole. I'm not too worried about him.

If Vaughn was anything but a 1B he would have been 1-1.

17 minutes ago, Rounding_Third said:

I'm not ready to stamp Vaughn yet.  .250 BA in A ball doesn't get me excited yet.  Let's see how he does at Charlotte or Birmingham in 2021.  Hopefully he excels! But I've seem too many "can't miss"'s miss.   Hopefully, that core will improve on their production and sub .500 record against RHP.  That being said, I'd still favor signing Brantley for 2 years with option or Murphy over Schwarber for 1 yr w/opt.  Any other similar candidates that you know of?  

Vaughn will be given a chance to succeed the next two years. This is why I penciled him into the lineup and why we cannot add a long term LH bat just yet. No quality LH DH bat will want to come here with Abreu and Vaughn getting almost all of the plate appearances. 

1 hour ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I don't think the first part is true.  If multiple teams are offering 4 years why not wait it out for a higher AAV?  If you're the guy at the top of the market there's no reason to rush it. 

The second part is nauseating.  

Maybe, but the past few years I've seen the top level guys set pretty clearly what they wanted and when it was hit was when they signed. The top level guys clearly do have some influence in setting their market.

4 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

Vaughn will be given a chance to succeed the next two years. This is why I penciled him into the lineup and why we cannot add a long term LH bat just yet. No quality LH DH bat will want to come here with Abreu and Vaughn getting almost all of the plate appearances. 

I wouldn't mind going cheap with someone like Schwarber who you could pull the plug on with no long-term commitment if he is bad and Vaughn waiting to be called up.

Dude, what? Kurt Suzuki is an FA? If he's cool being a backup, please sign him! 

3 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I get it but relievers are so volatile I'd rather see them use that money to strengthen the rotation especially if they can get a good deal on a guy like Tanaka or Odorizzi.  Then they can sign someone like Archie Bradley.  That would make a pretty damn good pitching staff. 

I would like Odorizzi and Bradley, also. Odorozzi was very good in 2019 and in 2020 had some unfortunate injuries. Hopefully the back strain would not flare up again. Bradley seems to have been solid for several years and as has been mentioned does have closing experience. I just worry about the competition in signing them both.  Also, do we have the cash available to sign both along with a Brantley, which would top off  a pretty good offseason of signings. IMO

 

18 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

Vaughn will be given a chance to succeed the next two years. This is why I penciled him into the lineup and why we cannot add a long term LH bat just yet. No quality LH DH bat will want to come here with Abreu and Vaughn getting almost all of the plate appearances. 

Guys, please don't get me wrong, I think Vaughn will be great in a year or two, just not getting too high yet.  Not grading him an A or F, just an I.  Hopefully, a year from now, he's ready for the show. Ofc he's going to get a chance to succeed, he just hasn't got much of a minor league resume YET.  His college stats are great , for sure, but he still needs to prove they convert to MLB org baseball.  For anyone hoping for him on the 2021 Sox roster, I don't think that's going to happen.

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

THis team needs another starter badly for 2021.  I will believe the extension talk when I see it.

Ok, but why commit to 2022 when there will be starters taking one year deals?