18 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Two years ago many of us were calling for him to be extended before it became obvious to all.

Well this is quite simply a lie.

James McCann hasn't signed a deal yet. 

3 minutes ago, Quin said:

Well this is quite simply a lie.

You obviously don't know the difference between a lie and being off on the date by six months.  

4 minutes ago, Quin said:

Well this is quite simply a lie.

Yeah, if I remember correctly, the consensus to the signing was "meh" at best.  He proved to be much more valuable than we could have anticipated.

8 minutes ago, poppysox said:

He weakened the second half of 2019 but the term "disaster" doesn't fit the crime.  Catcher is such a taxing position I favor the co-catcher system.  I'm sure Grandal is the superior choice when all is considered, but James could have been kept in the Sox harness along with Grandal for a third of Grandals money if extended a year ago.

Even with his second half struggles in 2019, no way was James signing an extension for cheap. He was technically an all star and probably wanted to bet on himself for a big payday. Last year was a great scenario for him with the 60 games. 

1 minute ago, hogan873 said:

Yeah, if I remember correctly, the consensus to the signing was "meh" at best.  He proved to be much more valuable than we could have anticipated.

That's correct...and six months after that "meh" initial reaction a number of us were calling for his being extended.  There was also a good number of you saying there was no rush...plenty of time if he becomes anything.

5 minutes ago, poppysox said:

You obviously don't know the difference between a lie and being off on the date by six months.  

No, I just know you were trying to posit yourself as the smartest man in the room my establishing the earliest possible date for when the Sox could have extended James McCann, which was when he was fresh off of a DFA.

They easily could have signed him. He wanted to stay and be part of a winner.  Hahn made his bed now he has to lie in it.  

6 minutes ago, Quin said:

No, I just know you were trying to posit yourself as the smartest man in the room my establishing the earliest possible date for when the Sox could have extended James McCann, which was when he was fresh off of a DFA.

Go look it up asshat.

 

12 minutes ago, poppysox said:

That's correct...and six months after that "meh" initial reaction a number of us were calling for his being extended.  There was also a good number of you saying there was no rush...plenty of time if he becomes anything.

And there was plenty of time. The White Sox signed Grandal. That was the end of any McCann . 

Yes I don't think it's unlikely that pre-Grandal signing the sox could have given him an extension.

And as someone who was supportive of it, I think key was the reason to extend him was his work with pitching staff not his offensive resurgence. I didn't expect that to keep up, but then it did. So that would have been cool.

 

11 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

They easily could have signed him. He wanted to stay and be part of a winner.  Hahn made his bed now he has to lie in it.  

When it was announced that McCann was an all-star, that went out the window. He may have wanted to stay, but it wouldn't have been for cheap. And his terrible second half of 2019 made it necessary for us to sign Grandal. Had McCann been good in the second half of 2019, he would have been extended. 

9 minutes ago, bmags said:

Yes I don't think it's unlikely that pre-Grandal signing the sox could have given him an extension.

And as someone who was supportive of it, I think key was the reason to extend him was his work with pitching staff not his offensive resurgence. I didn't expect that to keep up, but then it did. So that would have been cool.

 

Resigning him woud have been all about his catching. Hahn obviously didn't see the staff reacting so negatively to Grandal even though it was all out there. 

10 minutes ago, bmags said:

Yes I don't think it's unlikely that pre-Grandal signing the sox could have given him an extension.

And as someone who was supportive of it, I think key was the reason to extend him was his work with pitching staff not his offensive resurgence. I didn't expect that to keep up, but then it did. So that would have been cool.

 

Yes, but once they signed Grandal, which, BTW, poppysox loved, that was the end of James McCann with the White Sox, unless he played like a back up catcher. Maybe he will, and the Sox can get him back for a fraction of his contract.  But he's a guy who went from non tender to 4 year contract. Good for him.

2 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

When it was announced that McCann was an all-star, that went out the window. He may have wanted to stay, but it wouldn't have been for cheap. And his terrible second half of 2019 made it necessary for us to sign Grandal. Had McCann been good in the second half of 2019, he would have been extended. 

I disagree.

Even now, yes he's getting a four year deal. People are talking about 10 mill a year. We'll see where it ends up. But catchers are cheap outside of Grandal/Realmuto. We paid 8 mill a year for Kelvin herrerras injured ass, and I think 3 for 25 would have gotten him. 

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

Yes, but once they signed Grandal, which, BTW, poppysox loved, that was the end of James McCann with the White Sox, unless he played like a back up catcher. Maybe he will, and the Sox can get him back for a fraction of his contract.  But he's a guy who went from non tender to 4 year contract. Good for him.

I didn't say it wasn't. But the extension talks were discussed in 2019.

1 minute ago, bmags said:

I didn't say it wasn't. But the extension talks were discussed in 2019.

I still think moving forward, Grandal is the better player, and McCann wasn't going to sign to be the back up when he was getting the offer he is getting. I know Giolito loved throwing to him, seemingly a lot more than throwing to Grandal. Again, if he doesn't like Grandal's pitch selection, have Lucas call the pitches. Many pitchers have called their own games over the years. Stone talks about how he did all the time.

6 minutes ago, bmags said:

I disagree.

Even now, yes he's getting a four year deal. People are talking about 10 mill a year. We'll see where it ends up. But catchers are cheap outside of Grandal/Realmuto. We paid 8 mill a year for Kelvin herrerras injured ass, and I think 3 for 25 would have gotten him. 

He would have jumped at that now he's going to get twice that much.  

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

I still think moving forward, Grandal is the better player, and McCann wasn't going to sign to be the back up when he was getting the offer he is getting. I know Giolito loved throwing to him, seemingly a lot more than throwing to Grandal. Again, if he doesn't like Grandal's pitch selection, have Lucas call the pitches. Many pitchers have called their own games over the years. Stone talks about how he did all the time.

We didn't have a chance once Grandal hit. And I get it, Grandal introduced lefty power and OBP into one of the few positions we didn't have long-term players in (and many of our longterm guys are RH hitters who are not as good vs RHP).

I don't think it was a bad idea, I just think Sox were a little too cute with in 2017-19 with their dumpster diving hoping to get a career resurgence and flip them. James was one of the few we had with control, and I think they were still just in the mindset of flipping and not valuing anything coming from vets. Lynn is actually an example of sox missing out on, they just weren't looking for players like that that required some additional commitment in years, but were relatively cheap on marketplace and could be valuable if things turned around.

But as it is, it's all ok. They did benefit from not bogging down roster with a Eric Hosmer or something. But they should have experimented more with whether their FA scouting was actually finding better talent at that tier of player that we will probably still be diving in for 5th starters/backups.

13 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Yes, but once they signed Grandal, which, BTW, poppysox loved, that was the end of James McCann with the White Sox, unless he played like a back up catcher. Maybe he will, and the Sox can get him back for a fraction of his contract.  But he's a guy who went from non tender to 4 year contract. Good for him.

Of course, I liked the Grandal signing...who wouldn't?  I believe I have been consistent in my advocating for two strong regular catchers because the position is physically draining.  There was even a time we talked about the 3 catcher system with rotating DH being a reasonable take on all this.

James McCann is going to be disappointing if he plays 100+ games for someone. He's really solid in a split role. Start vs all LHP and really mash. 

6 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

James McCann is going to be disappointing if he plays 100+ games for someone. He's really solid in a split role. Start vs all LHP and really mash. 

This. 100%. He is gonna be a 240/320 guy with 15hr/50 rbis as a starter. He WILL wear down. We saw it in 2019. I am happy for him and loved we squeezed the absolute best out of him. But it is time to move on.

Edited December 10, 20205 yr by EloyJenkins

I think the team that signs him understands they're signing him for his defense and leadership first.  Whatever he gives offensively is gravy.  

Edited December 10, 20205 yr by Harold's Leg Lift

23 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

He would have jumped at that now he's going to get twice that much.  

Your love affair with mccann is absurdly annoying. 

If pitchers are so soft that throwing to grandal hurts their game they should find a new career. Tim anderson liked the prior hitting coach, he survived and didn't cry about a new one. 

Grandal has a better catcher era than his backups for his career. This mccann argument has always been laughable.

And he has a better a better catcher ERA despite Clayton Kershaw having s personal catcher.

Edited December 10, 20205 yr by Look at Ray Ray Run

It will be interesting to see how the Sox handle Grandal next year. A few trends to watch next year is that he usually is a better hitter in first half of the season (understandable being a catcher) and he also experiences a fairly big drop in production when not catching but playing IB and this year DH. Sox wanted to get his LH bat in lineup but maybe there will be better options next year. 

Edited December 10, 20205 yr by SCCWS