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Trade Whispers - Starting Pitchers


Chicago White Sox
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Just now, EloyJenkins said:

IF, and it's a big if...would you guys support a Vaughn headliner to Brewers with the plan to sign Brantley for 2 years? He is DH for those competitive years and Eloy slots in year 3 when Sox finally have Cespedes and Colas ready to go...plus FA LF shouldn't be too hard to get for a world series winning team :)

Yes. If the Sox believe that Burnes would step in and continue to be a Cy Young contending pitcher for the next 4 years, then you make that deal.

There is risk involved, as there is with any trade. But, as mentioned above, the lack of innings from Burnes is a risk-factor that needs to be considered.

I honestly see value in both paths:

Path 1: trade top prospects for a young, cost-controlled pitcher who you feel will compete for Cy Youngs.  Then sign a vet DH. This is an aggressive move, that if it pays off, wins you a World Series

Path 2: Sign a Quintana type to cover desperately needed innings, keep your prospects, re-evaluate at the deadline what holes there are to fill. This path still leaves you as the co-favorite to win the AL and leaves the opportunity for aggressiveness at the deadline.

This roster is well enough constructed that there are multiple paths to a championship club right now.

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10 minutes ago, turnin' two said:

Just with Woodruff and Burnes in the rotation and Williams and Hader in the pen, that may be enough to give the Brewers a bit of an edge over the other teams in the NL central.  I don't get why they would trade any of those guys for less than a king's ransom.  

The question is do the Brewers think they can realistically contend for a NL crown, if not, and they too are concerned about Burnes ability to throw 200 innings, it could make sense to sell "high".. Or at least see what the offers are.

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6 minutes ago, turnin' two said:

That isn't what he was saying.  He was saying you could get deGrom like production at 20% of the cost in Burnes.  

For the record, this is not me equating Burnes to deGrom.

Ah, the problem there is DeGrom has actually thrown over 200 IP at the major league level 3 times.  I can't make the leap that you can just project Burnes out to that level without knowing if he can handle that kind of workload.

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Yeah I just don't get the Brewers motivation at all. Their payroll is pretty cheap compared to last year, and Woodruff/Burnes don't save them any money. 

And that's the thing, the only way this makes sense to me is if they are trying to sell high on burnes to get rid of Cain's salary. And that would put them at like a 55 million salary, and maybe sign JBJ for $10 mill and they would like incredibly believe in stiever.

So I guess if I was them the conversation would be take Cain, trade Burnes, and in return get a cease back.

 

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3 minutes ago, bmags said:

Yeah I just don't get the Brewers motivation at all. Their payroll is pretty cheap compared to last year, and Woodruff/Burnes don't save them any money. 

And that's the thing, the only way this makes sense to me is if they are trying to sell high on burnes to get rid of Cain's salary. And that would put them at like a 55 million salary, and maybe sign JBJ for $10 mill and they would like incredibly believe in stiever.

So I guess if I was them the conversation would be take Cain, trade Burnes, and in return get a cease back.

 

No way they are working on Cease's pitches, to turn around and trade him.

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1 hour ago, Flash said:

Would you trade for DeGrom? What if you got DeGrom-like performance at < 20% of the cost? 

I understand your viewpoint, I just think it's a bit of a reach at this stage to say Burnes would be the NL favorite for Cy Young over the likes of DeGrom, Buehler, Soroka, etc. 

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2 hours ago, Wisebri224 said:

Maybe even it's one of those talks where it's, "Hey we are interested in Burnes, here's a package."  "Nope, we aren't trading Burnes but maybe Woodruff?".  Question, if Milwaukee says, take out Madrigal and replace with Kelley and we have a deal for Burnes (Kelley, Heuer, Stiever, Sheets) do you pull the trigger?  I still would as it's a place we have depth, but honestly even with Madrigal you are offering Milwaukee 3 of your top 10 prospects / MLB ready types.  I think there would be quite a few teams willing to listen from that buffet of choices

Comparable to what we got for Sale IMO.  Not interested.

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15 minutes ago, bmags said:

Yeah I just don't get the Brewers motivation at all. Their payroll is pretty cheap compared to last year, and Woodruff/Burnes don't save them any money. 

And that's the thing, the only way this makes sense to me is if they are trying to sell high on burnes to get rid of Cain's salary. And that would put them at like a 55 million salary, and maybe sign JBJ for $10 mill and they would like incredibly believe in stiever.

So I guess if I was them the conversation would be take Cain, trade Burnes, and in return get a cease back.

 

Now that lines up with something that makes sense for Milwaukee.

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6 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

Would that same package plus a sweetener get Zac Gallen? 

I just have to imagine it would be easier to get players from teams that are unlikely to compete this year like the dbacks. Because there is no compelling reason I see for the brewers to send out those pitchers when they aren't expensive and are unlikely to be while also being very likely to be in a good position to win the division this year.

 

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8 minutes ago, bmags said:

Yeah I just don't get the Brewers motivation at all. Their payroll is pretty cheap compared to last year, and Woodruff/Burnes don't save them any money. 

And that's the thing, the only way this makes sense to me is if they are trying to sell high on burnes to get rid of Cain's salary. And that would put them at like a 55 million salary, and maybe sign JBJ for $10 mill and they would like incredibly believe in stiever.

So I guess if I was them the conversation would be take Cain, trade Burnes, and in return get a cease back.

 

The Brewers are in baseball purgatory, not dissimiliar to where the Sox were just before they began the rebuild.  A weak farm system and an MLB roster of stars and scrubs, their stars being Woodruff, Burnes, Hader, Williams, Yelich, and maybe Hiura.  They can conceivably compete in and maybe win a weak NL central, but no way are they contenders in the NL with the likes of the Dodgers, Padres, Braves, and Mets.  And they don't seem to have any appetite to add to payroll in the current environment.  So they can keep all those guys above and be a .500ish team with them for the next 4 years, or look to trade them at peak values to try to add elite talent to the farm.

For those that don't think Madrigal would interest the Brewers, I disagree.  Madrigal is exactly the type of profile the Brewers covet (good avg, good walk rate, low strikeouts).  Stearns even said as much when they acquired Yelich (back when his career high in hrs was only about 18) and Cain.  Hiura is no obstacle to any Madrigal interest.  The universal DH is coming soon and that's where Hiura is going.  If there's no DH in the NL this year, I'm sure the Brewers would be willing to move Hiura to 1B for the season.

What I don't understand is why the Sox seem eager to part with Madrigal and Heuer, or why the Brewers would want current MLB players.  A package of Milb players (Steiver, Kelley, +) makes more sense to me.

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2 minutes ago, Perfect Vision said:

The Brewers are in baseball purgatory, not dissimiliar to where the Sox were just before they began the rebuild.  A weak farm system and an MLB roster of stars and scrubs, their stars being Woodruff, Burnes, Hader, Williams, Yelich, and maybe Hiura.  They can conceivably compete in and maybe win a weak NL central, but no way are they contenders in the NL with the likes of the Dodgers, Padres, Braves, and Mets.  And they don't seem to have any appetite to add to payroll in the current environment.  So they can keep all those guys above and be a .500ish team with them for the next 4 years, or look to trade them at peak values to try to add elite talent to the farm.

For those that don't think Madrigal would interest the Brewers, I disagree.  Madrigal is exactly the type of profile the Brewers covet (good avg, good walk rate, low strikeouts).  Stearns even said as much when they acquired Yelich (back when his career high in hrs was only about 18) and Cain.  Hiura is no obstacle to any Madrigal interest.  The universal DH is coming soon and that's where Hiura is going.  If there's no DH in the NL this year, I'm sure the Brewers would be willing to move Hiura to 1B for the season.

What I don't understand is why the Sox seem eager to part with Madrigal and Heuer, or why the Brewers would want current MLB players.  A package of Milb players (Steiver, Kelley, +) makes more sense to me.

I just can't disagree more. The Brewers made the playoffs last year. They made the playoffs the year before that. They made the playoffs the year before that. The year before that they won 86 games and were in 2nd place.

The white sox at the time hadn't made the playoffs in 8 years. They had finished in 4th place in two years where they were ostensibly competing for the playoffs, not only not being able to compete with an in-its-prime royals team, but getting lapped by an ascending Cleveland team.

And Stearns did all that by a bunch of paperclip moves finding players like Shaw and Aguilar and finding trash heap starting pitchers and getting good seasons out of them.

They looked in bad shape last year, had one of their better players sit out, and made the playoffs.

The entire division around them is imploding. They have the best staff in the division, and an incredible bullpen. They are the same paper clip moves from another playoff year.

And even if they were the white sox, why in teh world would it make sense to take a 2b already in the majors and a reliever as part of your main package?

The only wind of brewers pitchers on the move continues to be unofficial sox personalities. Nobody from milwaukee or nationally has thrown any credence to this.

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5 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Here is the trade:

 

White Sox Get:

Corbin Burnes

Omar Narvaez

 

Brewers Get:

Nick Madrigal

Zack Collins

Jonathan Stiever

Codi Heuer

Too good to be true for the Sox, which means it’s way too light IMO

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49 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Comparable to what we got for Sale IMO.  Not interested.

Really?  Which of those 4 guys coming from us was a #1 overall prospect right now?  Moncada was the #1 prospect in the game and Kopech was top 30.  Madrigal is at #36 and no others to be found.  Maybe if you are talking about 4 players being similar but that's where the similarities end.  Burnes isn't Sale but these names aren't those either

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1 minute ago, Wisebri224 said:

Really?  Which of those 4 guys coming from us was a #1 overall prospect right now?  Moncada was the #1 prospect in the game and Kopech was top 30.  Madrigal is at #36 and no others to be found.  Maybe if you are talking about 4 players being similar but that's where the similarities end.  Burnes isn't Sale but these names aren't those either

 

1 minute ago, Wisebri224 said:

Really?  Which of those 4 guys coming from us was a #1 overall prospect right now?  Moncada was the #1 prospect in the game and Kopech was top 30.  Madrigal is at #36 and no others to be found.  Maybe if you are talking about 4 players being similar but that's where the similarities end.  Burnes isn't Sale but these names aren't those either

3 of our top 10.

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