Trade Whispers - Starting Pitchers

[RagahRagah]

9 minutes ago, Jerksticks said:

I actually think it does.  
 

I get your point if Lynn was an addition to a regular solid roster...but I don’t think you realize just how much talent THIS roster is dripping with.  Dude we might have the entire all star team, like all 26 guys

Like I said, we only added 2 guys and one is playing a position that had no problems last year. 

It is quite possible we may have a worse team than last year. I don't believe that will be the case, but all of this declaring 95+ wins and deep playoff runs is hilariously overconfident right now. And even IF Lynn deals and Dallas stays good, we may still have 2 black holes in the rotation.

This team has a lot to prove.

[fathom]

Sounds like Tanaka back to Japan

[Jack Parkman]

6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

There is no more overused term than "realism" on a message board.  People who is it are just not rectified with the fact they are just pessimists looking to justify their pessimism. 

Most people would think I'm a negative nancy. There are a lot of reasons to be excited about the Sox. Literally the only reason to be pessimistic is because ownership won't authorize the moves to put the team over the top, yet again. I'm fine going with Cease in the rotation, with Kopech not far behind. I don't like the Lynn move because he's old and even if they wanted to extend him if he's good, he won't be cheap, so he's probably gone. 

The Sox moves this offseason are a C-/D+ from me. They improved a bit, but likely only this year. 

Edited January 26, 2021 by Jack Parkman

[RagahRagah]

6 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

So eaton replacing the biggest black hole this team has ever seen and Vaughn (hopefully) replacing negative value DH value aren't major improvements? 

Why the duck is Lynn going to regress? You don't just find spin rate and effectiveness out of nowhere. And news flash....Keuchel is really good. If anything why aren't you talking about the definite improved production out of moncada, Eloy, robert, madrigal and potentially giolito that is coming?

Sorry, I actually forgot about Eaton, lol. But I stand by what I said. A lot of people are not high on Eaton and for good reason.

Dallas indeed is good. But people forget what happened to him the previous 2 years before he got here. And he is near Lynn's age. Lynn and Dallas are definitely regression candidates whether you like it or not.

I am hopeful but people are getting way too ahead of themselves. 

[southsider2k5]

 

[RagahRagah]

10 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

There is no more overused term than "realism" on a message board.  People who use it are just not rectified with the fact they are just pessimists looking to justify their pessimism. 

Justify? Why would anyone need to justify pessimism? Have you not watched this team the last 15 years or so?

Reality is this team has been bad for several years now and even last year, in a shortened season, they choked down the stretch. Just like we are used to.

I don't need to "justify" a fucking fact. There are plenty of reasons to be worried.

Edited January 26, 2021 by RagahRagah

[EloyJenkins]

1 minute ago, RagahRagah said:

Sorry, I actually forgot about Eaton, lol. But I stand by what I said. A lot of people are not high on Eaton and for good reason.

Dallas indeed is good. But people forget what happened to him the previous 2 years before he got here. And he is near Lynn's age. Lynn and Dallas are definitely regression candidates whether you like it or not.

I am hopeful but people are getting way too ahead of themselves. 

I think 95 wins is not ahead of anything. It's realistic without major injury. IF and it's a huge If...Katz has unlocked Cease it's better than any free agent other than Bauer this off-season. This team has flaws. All do. But I just can't see why people could possibly be down on the next 2-3 years

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:

Justify? Why would anyone need to justify pessimism? Have you not watched this team the last 15 years or so?

Reality is this team has been bad for several years now and even last year, in a shortened season, they choked down the stretch. Just like we are used to.

I don't need to "justify" a fucking fact. 

And thanks for making my point. Now you are using tank years to justify regression in 2021. But I am sure Dylan Covey justifies Lance Lynn collapsing. 

[RagahRagah]

2 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

I think 95 wins is not ahead of anything. It's realistic without major injury. IF and it's a huge If...Katz has unlocked Cease it's better than any free agent other than Bauer this off-season. This team has flaws. All do. But I just can't see why people could possibly be down on the next 2-3 years

That's the thing... a lot of this heavy optimism is based on "ifs." Not a fan. Usually doesn't work out well.

We can be down because we are still seeing things we've always seen. Big talk, broken promises, dumpster diving, lack of optomizing.

Again, sometimes I really wonder how many people here have ACTUALLY been watching this team for the last decade +.

[Jose Abreu]

 

[RagahRagah]

12 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

And thanks for making my point. Now you are using tank years to justify regression in 2021. But I am sure Dylan Covey justifies Lance Lynn collapsing. 

You're reaching and being selective, which is all the "justification" I need. Not all years in the last decade and a half were "tank years."

It gets tiring when people constantly tell you you are simply being "pessimistic" yet seem to ignore virtually all your points and reasons why you feel that way.

Know what is worse than pessimism? Blind optimism. 

Edited January 26, 2021 by RagahRagah

[KrankinSox]

5 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

 

No to Matz

[hi8is]

9 minutes ago, KrankinSox said:

No to Matz

Why?

[EloyJenkins]

16 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:

That's the thing... a lot of this heavy optimism is based on "ifs." Not a fan. Usually doesn't work out well.

We can be down because we are still seeing things we've always seen. Big talk, broken promises, dumpster diving, lack of optomizing.

Again, sometimes I really wonder how many people here have ACTUALLY been watching this team for the last decade +.

Okay, riddle me this...what have the Rays, Yankees or Twins done to fight regression this off-season? I'll wait for a realistic answer.

[Rey21]

3 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Why?

He’s on a 1 year deal and was ass last year, if they’re gonna give up more assets for a pitcher it’s gonna be one with control 

Edited January 26, 2021 by Rey21

[Jack Parkman]

2 minutes ago, Rey21 said:

He’s on a 1 year deal and was ass last year, if they’re gonna give up more assets for a pitcher it’s gonna be one with control 

Go look at his baseball savant profile. Matz sucks. 

Of the pitchers left, Odorizzi and Archer are pretty much the only ones worth signing. Odorizzi probably isn't happening.  

Edited January 26, 2021 by Jack Parkman

[hi8is]

Man, I must have just remembered his first two years in the league. Ugly.

[KrankinSox]

2 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Why?

Everything depends on price so I walk back my 'no' a little bit. If you can get him for next to nothing, then fine. But acquiring him won't move the needle for me at all.

Hasn't had a FIP below 4.6 since 2016 and he was horrendous last season while dealing with a shoulder injury.  His one saving grace is that he made 30 starts in both 2018 and 2019, so I guess we could use the innings.

[RagahRagah]

10 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

Okay, riddle me this...what have the Rays, Yankees or Twins done to fight regression this off-season? I'll wait for a realistic answer.

Not sure what any of those teams have to do with the White Sox or our regression candidates. Who are the Yankees regression candidates? They have always been a more well-rounded team than us. You're only shooting yourself in the foot by trying to compare us.

And you aside, I can see I'm already at the point where certain people won't even actually counter the points I'm making, stop responding and just click their stupid little laugh emoticons. If you can't even bother to acknowledge the points someone is making, then just don't post. It gets tiresome. Your little laugh reaction is just quiet concession because you can't actually argue the points someone is making and instead just argue completely around them. Which means you have no merit. For all the intelligence discussion here, there is also a lot of flat out laziness and lack of actually countering the actual things people are fucking saying. When you have to do that, it's a sign you might be wrong.

There are plenty of reasons to be skeptical of this team this year. Get over it.

Edited January 26, 2021 by RagahRagah

[EloyJenkins]

6 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:

Not sure what any of those teams have to do with the White Sox or our regression candidates. Who are the Yankees regression candidates? They have always been a more well-rounded team than us. You're only shooting yourself in the foot by trying to compare us.

And you aside, I can see I'm already at the point where certain people won't even actually counter the points I'm making, stop responding and just click their stupid little laugh emoticons. If you can't even bother to acknowledge the points someone is making, then just don't post. It gets tiresome. Your little laugh reaction is just quiet concession because you can't actually argue the points someone is making and instead just argue completely around them. Which means you have no merit. For all the intelligence discussion here, there is also a lot of flat out laziness and lack of actually countering the actual things people are fucking saying. When you have to do that, it's a sign you might be wrong.

There are plenty of reasons to be skeptical of this team this year. Get over it.

You didn't answer my question. How have the Rays, Twins or Yankees improved this off-season? Heres a fact check...they haven't at all. And you are deflecting.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:

Not sure what any of those teams have to do with the White Sox or our regression candidates.

And you aside, I can see I'm already at the point where certain people won't even actually counter the points I'm making, stop responding and just click their stupid little laugh emoticons. If you can't even bother to acknowledge the points someone is making, then just don't post. It gets tiresome. 

There are plenty of reasons to be skeptical of this team this year. Get over it.

I am actually like you except there just comes a time when you say this is my team we have a lot of good players. I can't do anything about who the Sox sign or trade. I can b**** and moan about the owners, my hopes, my dreams, my understanding of all the bad. However I will enjoy all the fine talent we have and will enjoy seeing them play. Unless you get in the World Series year after year chances are you aren't going to get many shots to win it so ultimately disappointment happens.

There are so many things in life that are sorrowful. Find joy where you can in the team and the sport .

 

[RagahRagah]

4 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

You didn't answer my question. How have the Rays, Twins or Yankees improved this off-season? Heres a fact check...they haven't at all. And you are deflecting.

What am I deflecting? What do the Yankees have to do with us? They have been a better team then us... pretty much forever. 

There's literally no relevance with your question. And again, literally none of my points are being tackled. If there is any deflection it is on your part.

And again... laughing smilies without responses for some people. Damn, Uber pwnage, eh?

[Rey21]

9 minutes ago, EloyJenkins said:

You didn't answer my question. How have the Rays, Twins or Yankees improved this off-season? Heres a fact check...they haven't at all. And you are deflecting.

I wouldn’t say the Yankees haven’t improved, if healthy Taillon and Kluber could be really big additions - those are big ifs but what if Lynn/Kuechel/Abreu regress, Moncada is 2018 Moncada, Robert goes through a sophomore slump, Eloy is hurt and out for a bit, Cease and or Kopech don’t turn a corner, Eaton doesn’t provide anything,  Crochett or Bummer get hurt again (Regardless of how either is feeling now, a nerve issue for Bummer and forearm issue for Crochett is troubling) the Sox aren’t prepared for any of that. We were told the money would be spent to solidify this thing, they have an opportunity to shut us up and step on the gas pedal but instead they’re tapping on it. 

Edited January 26, 2021 by Rey21

[RagahRagah]

4 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I am actually like you except there just comes a time when you say this is my team we have a lot of good players. I can't do anything about who the Sox sign or trade. I can b**** and moan about the owners, my hopes, my dreams, my understanding of all the bad. However I will enjoy all the fine talent we have and will enjoy seeing them play. Unless you get in the World Series year after year chances are you aren't going to get many shots to win it so ultimately disappointment happens.

There are so many things in life that are sorrowful. Find joy where you can in the team and the sport .

 

It's just that some people refuse to acknowledge what goes on and go overboard with with expectations despite so many obvious reasons they shouldn't. 

Expecting this to automatically be a division winner, 95+ wins and deep playoff run team is a little overconfident and I explained the reasons why. As expected, the guilty parties don't even want to actually explore or even read those reasons.

Being confident is fine. But based on what we saw last year, there are a lot of things that are gonna have to go right this year. The idea Lance Lynn will make this a 95 win team, ignoring all the other questionable factors, is pretty laughable.

Edited January 26, 2021 by RagahRagah

[Chicago White Sox]

1 minute ago, Rey21 said:

I wouldn’t say the Yankees haven’t improved, if healthy Taillon and Kluber could be really big additions - those are big ifs but what if Lynn/Kuechel/Abreu regress, Moncada is 2018 Moncada, Robert goes through a sophomore slump, Eloy is hurt and out for a bit, Cease and or Kopech don’t turn a corner, Eaton doesn’t provide anything,  Crochett or Bummer get hurt again (Regardless of how either is feeling now, a nerve issue for Bummer and forearm issue for Crochett is troubling) the Sox aren’t prepared for any of that. We were told the money would be spent to solidify this thing, they have an opportunity to shut us up and step on the gas pedal but instead they’re tapping on it. 

So you’re question is what if everything possible goes wrong?