10 minutes ago, macsandz said:

On-going. It's amicable and they both want to get it done. 

 

speaking of things that mean nothing.

5 minutes ago, macsandz said:

If you step back and measure what these dudes "share" they'd lose any legit source in less than a second.  

Nah, they have the exact ranking of how the Sox view every player, as well as how other teams view them as well.

I think I remember Steve Stone saying something similar to what Al’s tweeted. I just can’t find the tweet. Maybe he took this from Stone.

 

Edit: found it

 

I would really hate this to be true. One of the only things you can have pride in as a Sox fan is the way they lock up talent long term. 

Edited January 22, 20215 yr by Orlando

8 minutes ago, fathom said:

Nah, they have the exact ranking of how the Sox view every player, as well as how other teams view them as well.

They also have a complete sense of trade packages and ownership mandates in real time. 

17 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

Hahn and the official White Sox twitter account mentioned multiple championships. That is the standard they will be held to, regardless of how long the window is open. 

You really believe that ? Who is going to hold them accountable for only winning 1 championship rather than 2 ? I'd be thrilled with one. The Braves, Tigers, the Indians , Dodgers ,lots of very good teams compete year after year without winning the big one. It took the Braves forever and the Dodgers too. Dodgers were in the playoffs about 12 times in the 21st century before finally winning one. Starting in 1991 to 2005 the Braves made the playoffs every year and only won 1 World Series.

3 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

You really believe that ? Who is going to hold them accountable for only winning 1 championship rather than 2 ? I'd be thrilled with one. The Braves, Tigers, the Indians , Dodgers ,lots of very good teams compete year after year without winning the big one. It took the Braves forever and the Dodgers too. Dodgers were in the playoffs about 12 times in the 21st century before finally winning one. Starting in 1991 to 2005 the Braves made the playoffs every year and only won 1 World Series.

Well, then maybe they shouldn't have put their balls on the table like that. You are correct, it is tough to win but that's not my point. My point is if you said multiple championships and you don't make every attempt to make that happen, you will be accountable. If you try your best to make it happen and it doesn't, nothing you can do about it. 

Edited January 22, 20215 yr by SonofaRoache

Stone is right though. Giolito might be able to sign for 30+ million if he reaches free agency. He also might be unable to command 10 million.  That’s why a 5/75-80 is reasonable. 25 per free agency year vs gambling making it through next three years in order to command a higher salary. Signing the extension would be the prudent choice

6 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

You really believe that ? Who is going to hold them accountable for only winning 1 championship rather than 2 ? I'd be thrilled with one. The Braves, Tigers, the Indians , Dodgers ,lots of very good teams compete year after year without winning the big one. It took the Braves forever and the Dodgers too. Dodgers were in the playoffs about 12 times in the 21st century before finally winning one. Starting in 1991 to 2005 the Braves made the playoffs every year and only won 1 World Series.

Technically speaking winning the AL would be a championship. That’s why it’s called the championship series. The Braves and Dodgers did win numerous championships in that case.

Edited January 22, 20215 yr by Vulture

Just now, Vulture said:

Stone is right though. Giolito might be able to sign for 30+ million if he reaches free agency. He also might be unable to command 10 million.  That’s why a 5/75-80 is reasonable. 25 per free agency year vs gambling making it through next three years in order to command a higher salary. Signing the extension would be the prudent choice

So he's right if you believe that the worst thing that could happen is that you have waste on your roster in your worst case scenario, requiring you to spend more to compensate, or eat some cost to lower the burden.

But he does not consider it a bad thing to happen to lose an incredibly productive player for nothing and likely overpay for less production and be a worse team.

It's also bad to lose a productive player when you are ostensibly trying to win!

But if you gave Jerry two possibilities:

Win a world series every year for the rest of your life 

or 

Be able to dissolve the player union

Don't tell me he wouldn't be this meme!

4 minutes ago, Vulture said:

Stone is right though. Giolito might be able to sign for 30+ million if he reaches free agency. He also might be unable to command 10 million.  That’s why a 5/75-80 is reasonable. 25 per free agency year vs gambling making it through next three years in order to command a higher salary. Signing the extension would be the prudent choice

I still wouldn't sign that if I was a pitcher. The trade off is the guaranteed payoff against the risk of injury. 4 years and $50 million is a totally sufficient guarantee against injury, and it still gives you a really good shot at a $200 million deal when you're 29.

3 minutes ago, bmags said:

So he's right if you believe that the worst thing that could happen is that you have waste on your roster in your worst case scenario, requiring you to spend more to compensate, or eat some cost to lower the burden.

But he does not consider it a bad thing to happen to lose an incredibly productive player for nothing and likely overpay for less production and be a worse team.

It's also bad to lose a productive player when you are ostensibly trying to win!

But if you gave Jerry two possibilities:

Win a world series every year for the rest of your life 

or 

Be able to dissolve the player union

Don't tell me he wouldn't be this meme!

There’s no way to know if Giolito will be a productive player four years from now. If you’re just going to give him what he theoretically would be able to get in free agency four years in advance might as well just wait and sign him as a free agent.

38 minutes ago, fathom said:

Nah, they have the exact ranking of how the Sox view every player, as well as how other teams view them as well.

Lol...I did love Portillo’s fully numbered list of pitching priorities, what a source he must have!

1 minute ago, Vulture said:

There’s no way to know if Giolito will be a productive player four years from now. If you’re just going to give him what he theoretically would be able to get in free agency four years in advance might as well just wait and sign him as a free agent.

This is silly.

You aren't getting "what he'd get in free agency four years in advance".

If Giolito was who he is today and hit free agency at age 29, he would not get a 1 year, (let's say) $25 million deal. He may get a multi year deal worth maybe 5 years 125 million, where his age 30 season is expected to be his most productive, and age 34 season least productive, but it allows them to allocate and plan for that long term.

You also get:

- Cost certainty of his arb numbers for next three years

- Guaranteed control for four years.

But if you may as well just wait and sign him as a free agent, you are going to need to give him a lot more years, a lot more money, and pay him a lot more for the years he is MUCH more likely to be worse because of aging.

And if you want to talk about things hard to get rid of - it's a lot easier to get rid of an expensive underperforming pitcher than it is an expensive underperforming hitter. Yet they were fine paying Robert and Moncada "free agency" money for just another year.

7 minutes ago, Vulture said:

Stone is right though. Giolito might be able to sign for 30+ million if he reaches free agency. He also might be unable to command 10 million.  That’s why a 5/75-80 is reasonable. 25 per free agency year vs gambling making it through next three years in order to command a higher salary. Signing the extension would be the prudent choice

If he went by the boards, he would be looking at something like:

21- 6 mil

22-12 mil

23 -20 mil

24-32 mil

25-32 mil

That works out to a touch over $100 million. 

I didn't quite put him up to the top level guys, (Cole maxed at $36, DeGrom 35, Stras 35) but realize that if he goes year to year 3 more times, he is probably staring at a 8/250 or more type of a deal, maybe as much as a $300 million type of deal.  if he puts that off for a couple of years, you have to make it worthwhile for when he does.

I think I worked out a deal at like 4 years 65 mil, with a 5th year at $25 mil for an option, so essentially a 5/90 type deal.

Bonus 5 mil

21- 5 mil

22- 10 mil

23-15 mil

24-25 mil

25-25 mil (buyout 5 mil)

 

 

25 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

If he went by the boards, he would be looking at something like:

21- 6 mil

22-12 mil

23 -20 mil

24-32 mil

25-32 mil

That works out to a touch over $100 million. 

I didn't quite put him up to the top level guys, (Cole maxed at $36, DeGrom 35, Stras 35) but realize that if he goes year to year 3 more times, he is probably staring at a 8/250 or more type of a deal, maybe as much as a $300 million type of deal.  if he puts that off for a couple of years, you have to make it worthwhile for when he does.

I think I worked out a deal at like 4 years 65 mil, with a 5th year at $25 mil for an option, so essentially a 5/90 type deal.

Bonus 5 mil

21- 5 mil

22- 10 mil

23-15 mil

24-25 mil

25-25 mil (buyout 5 mil)

 

 

excellent work.

1 hour ago, SonofaRoache said:

To clarify, I meant getting a top pitcher in return, without the Moncada. I think a desperate team would definitely bite IF it came to that. 

One year of an ace will get you two nice prospects every time.  I'm not worried...RH does extensions better than anyone in the game IMO.

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

I still wouldn't sign that if I was a pitcher. The trade off is the guaranteed payoff against the risk of injury. 4 years and $50 million is a totally sufficient guarantee against injury, and it still gives you a really good shot at a $200 million deal when you're 29.

 

"Pigs get fat...hogs go to slaughter." ?

1 hour ago, Vulture said:

Technically speaking winning the AL would be a championship. That’s why it’s called the championship series. The Braves and Dodgers did win numerous championships in that case.

He said "the big one" not championships. 

1 minute ago, SonofaRoache said:

He said "the big one" not championships. 

He was talking about Hahn’s statement about multiple championships. Have to follow the thread for context

3 hours ago, Vulture said:

Technically speaking winning the AL would be a championship. That’s why it’s called the championship series. The Braves and Dodgers did win numerous championships in that case.

You knew I meant World Series. Oh ha nvm Hahn speak, meaning he could mean winning the AL counts as a championship .

Edited January 23, 20215 yr by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

3 hours ago, SonofaRoache said:

Well, then maybe they shouldn't have put their balls on the table like that. You are correct, it is tough to win but that's not my point. My point is if you said multiple championships and you don't make every attempt to make that happen, you will be accountable. If you try your best to make it happen and it doesn't, nothing you can do about it. 

Are you Tony LaRussa  ? Are you going to say tell everyone if they were sincere or not ? Accountable to who ? I don't get it . It there someone out there who holds GM's accountable for everything they said that doesn't happen like only winning one world series instead of multiple ones ?

3 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Are you Tony LaRussa  ? Are you going to say tell everyone if they were sincere or not ? Accountable to who ? I don't get it . It there someone out there who holds GM's accountable for everything they said that doesn't happen like only winning one world series instead of multiple ones ?

Again, it is about the effort necessary to win. I clearly said if they put forth their best effort to win then not winning even one title will not be their fault. Fans can hold them accountable for making those bold proclamations and then not doing what is necessary to see it through. Fans hold them accountable with their wallets and eyes. 

Everyone should relax and take a breath.  The off-season isn't over yet.  Lot's of good players still available and no one knows what the FO is going to do.  RH isn't talking it up with the next-door neighbor and JR for sure isn't giving his financial intentions to anyone.  It's fun to speculate and play GM but our FO is one of the tightest lipped management groups in sports.   My "guess" is something good will be happening soon.  Keep the faith.?

2 hours ago, poppysox said:

One year of an ace will get you two nice prospects every time.  I'm not worried...RH does extensions better than anyone in the game IMO.

But pitching extensions are always going to be high-risk.  Look at Danks, or Jose Contreras after 2006.  

What if we extended Lopez off his one good year, where would we be now?  

Plus, with hitters you’re never dealing with the career impact of a second TJS.

Sale and Q worked out so well, but the White Sox continuing those relationships long-term would have been disastrous.

JR also let Buehrle walk but kept Konerko.  We can see the hesitancy they have going any longer than 3-4 year deals for pitching.

18 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

But pitching extensions are always going to be high-risk.  Look at Danks, or Jose Contreras after 2006.  

What if we extended Lopez off his one good year, where would we be now?  

Plus, with hitters you’re never dealing with the career impact of a second TJS.

Sale and Q worked out so well, but the White Sox continuing those relationships long-term would have been disastrous.

JR also let Buehrle walk but kept Konerko.  We can see the hesitancy they have going any longer than 3-4 year deals for pitching.

I don't disagree.  My comment was meant to say I trust RH to get an extension on fair terms or be wise enough to trade a player while he still has value.  I never want us to be in the Brandt position the Cubs find themselves in with any of our top players.  You just can't end up empty-handed with that type of player.  Better to trade them a year too early.