On 3/7/2021 at 5:23 PM, turnin' two said:

I think the most likely scenario is that Rodon has the job out of spring training, gets hurt, Lopez carries it for a while, then Kopech takes it.

I agree with this guy. I think the Sox feel that Rodon has more upside and can really be something. But, I disagree with that idea. 

I never remember Rodon ever being good; at his best, he was slightly above average. Sometimes he'd pitch a game and come out after 5 and 2/3 innings with a guy on 2nd and Jason B. would be saying something like, "Now that's the Carlos Rodon we've been waiting for, really showing his potential." He say something like that, and I'd think, "Really, a No. 3 pick with a great game? Really, giving up 2 runs (maybe 3) in less than six innings??  At his best, he's just above average. 

On the other hand, I can remember lots of outstanding games and stretches of games from Lopez. I admit, they're becoming distant memories, but I know he can really throw a great shut or a one-run game. I went to a game against the Angels when he came out in the 7th or so, and he lost 1 to 0. 

I just really feel that he has way more upside than Rodon. I wouldn't bet the house (or even five dollars) on it, but I wouldn't be shocked if he was the Sox three-pitcher this year. I've seen and can remember great games from Lopez, though rather briefly and long ago. 

2 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

I agree with this guy. I think the Sox feel that Rodon has more upside and can really be something. But, I disagree with that idea. 

I never remember Rodon ever being good; at his best, he was slightly above average. Sometimes he'd pitch a game and come out after 5 and 2/3 innings with a guy on 2nd and Jason B. would be saying something like, "Now that's the Carlos Rodon we've been waiting for, really showing his potential." He say something like that, and I'd think, "Really, a No. 3 pick with a great game? Really, giving up 2 runs (maybe 3) in less than six innings??  At his best, he's just above average. 

On the other hand, I can remember lots of outstanding games and stretches of games from Lopez. I admit, they're becoming distant memories, but I know he can really throw a great shut or a one-run game. I went to a game against the Angels when he came out in the 7th or so, and he lost 1 to 0. 

I just really feel that he has way more upside than Rodon. I wouldn't bet the house (or even five dollars) on it, but I wouldn't be shocked if he was the Sox three-pitcher this year. I've seen and can remember great games from Lopez, though rather briefly and long ago. 

Taking out injuries.. Rodon has been better than Lopez in every year. Go with Rodon first until his health gets him, then Lopez if necessary then hopefully Kopech takes the reigns in June.

I just poured over Lopez's pitch type info and the only chance he has at success is improving his command.  Good luck.  Rarely do guys that can't command even a fastball suddenly master their arsenal after 4-5 years in the league.  It's not even like he had a bad arm injury or anything he just can't command any of his pitches and they get hammered.  That said, Cooper had him trying to throw way too many fucking changeups.  More curveballs can't possibly hurt, can it?

On 3/7/2021 at 2:19 PM, Timmy U said:

Lopez has an option left.  I think if Rodon is healthy, he gets first crack at the job regardless of what Lopez does this spring.  May not be fair, but that’s life.

Pretty much. Money finds it’s way onto the field

On 3/7/2021 at 10:42 AM, poppysox said:

I love this pitching staff!!!  Almost as good as the offense.  What a year this could be.?

Go’ be like Hoyt Dotson Bannister and Burns up in here!

41 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I just poured over Lopez's pitch type info and the only chance he has at success is improving his command.  Good luck.  Rarely do guys that can't command even a fastball suddenly master their arsenal after 4-5 years in the league.  It's not even like he had a bad arm injury or anything he just can't command any of his pitches and they get hammered.  That said, Cooper had him trying to throw way too many fucking changeups.  More curveballs can't possibly hurt, can it?

Mechanically he's pretty much always been a mess.  My guess is Coop was trying to simplify things.  With the Nats he looked every bit of a reliver, no chance in hell of being a SP.

Hopefully he responds to some of the newer training methods like the core belts or something like that.  If he can keep things under control out of the pen, some team will have enough of a hope in his potential to try to trade for him.  IMO his window with the Sox is fully closed.  Lambert and Stiever are already better, and that's to say nothing about Kopech and Crochet.

3 minutes ago, YourWhatHurts said:

Mechanically he's pretty much always been a mess.  My guess is Coop was trying to simplify things.  With the Nats he looked every bit of a reliver, no chance in hell of being a SP.

Hopefully he responds to some of the newer training methods like the core belts or something like that.  If he can keep things under control out of the pen, some team will have enough of a hope in his potential to try to trade for him.  IMO his window with the Sox is fully closed.  Lambert and Stiever are already better, and that's to say nothing about Kopech and Crochet.

Maybe I'm misremembering but didn't Cooper have him pitching from the stretch at all times as well?  

6 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Maybe I'm misremembering but didn't Cooper have him pitching from the stretch at all times as well?  

LOL I can't remember him ever not having baserunners on so I don't know.  Probably.

If I was Coop he'd only pitch from the stretch anyway given how unlikely it is that he'd ever have a clean inning.

8 hours ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

If Reynaldo is our #3.. Something went horribly wrong.

Or awesomely right ?

This just makes me realize what a home run the Sox were for Katz - I don't know if there was a better pitching coach job available with all these projects and upside arms the Sox have. All of these guys supporting the anchors of rotation (Gio/Keuchel/Lynn) and pen (Hendriks/Bummer). The anchors should everything together and if the Sox get good season from 2/3 of the guys below Katz is an absolute genius.  

Lopez - Seemed like he really had a tumultuous relationship with Renteria and Coop. People have implied he's not that intelligent or hard headed but he's good arm who has a good deal of experience now. Seems to lose the mental battle, struggled with previous coaches, went away from what got him to the pros, etc. He pitches well, Katz is god. He doesn't, well he was on his last shot anyway. 

Rodon -Former high profile prospect with an out pitch and velo from the left side. Has not been able to stay healthy. He looked really good in 2019 before he went down to injury and was actually a capable albeit inconsistent starter the 4 years before that. He pitches well, Katz is god. He doesn't - well he was on the his last shot anyway. 

Then you have Cease...

Cease - Easy and repeatable delivery. Cease has plus, plus velo and a spin rate on the pitch that grades out as 5th in the AL (minimum 100 pitches) but a fastball that really grades as a poor pitch given the utter lack of command Cease has. His secondary offerings are relatively advanced. If Katz can do anything to improve the fastball he can get all the credit for a high ceiling player.

That's not even mentioning Kopech and Crochet. Katz can become a legend with just a few of these guys pitching to their ability. 

 

 

He's a fresh of breathe air compared to Coop, who needed to go long ago.

14 minutes ago, manbearpuig said:

He's a fresh of breathe air compared to Coop, who needed to go long ago.

He's beginning to sound like the pitcher's Walt Hriniak.

It ain’t over yet!  Team Cy Lopez 4 Life!

Not a good start for Lopez tonight so far. 3 hits and 2 runs so far in the first. 

Looks like Bad Reynaldo started tonight.

I have no interest in ever seeing Lopez pitch for the Sox if he’s at 92-93 mph 

Lopez getting shelled. Team is playing like poop.  Can’t believe he’s still getting chances.  Hope he enjoys Charlotte.

Edited March 12, 20215 yr by fathom

I'm guessing Lopez is who he is. A mediocre starter at best.

Looks like Coop still isn't letting Lopey throw his curveball.  

Just now, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Looks like Coop still isn't letting Lopey throw his curveball.  

Too late to bring in Cahill?  

1 minute ago, Sox80 said:

I'm guessing Lopez is who he is. A mediocre starter at best.

Is he even mediocre?  If he’s really at 92-93, he’s done.

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

Too late to bring in Cahill?  

Has Lori approved more fans?

Just now, fathom said:

Is he even mediocre?  If he’s really at 92-93, he’s done.

That's why I said at best.   I agree close the book on him. 

1 hour ago, raBBit said:

This just makes me realize what a home run the Sox were for Katz - I don't know if there was a better pitching coach job available with all these projects and upside arms the Sox have. All of these guys supporting the anchors of rotation (Gio/Keuchel/Lynn) and pen (Hendriks/Bummer). The anchors should everything together and if the Sox get good season from 2/3 of the guys below Katz is an absolute genius.  

Lopez - Seemed like he really had a tumultuous relationship with Renteria and Coop. People have implied he's not that intelligent or hard headed but he's good arm who has a good deal of experience now. Seems to lose the mental battle, struggled with previous coaches, went away from what got him to the pros, etc. He pitches well, Katz is god. He doesn't, well he was on his last shot anyway. 

Rodon -Former high profile prospect with an out pitch and velo from the left side. Has not been able to stay healthy. He looked really good in 2019 before he went down to injury and was actually a capable albeit inconsistent starter the 4 years before that. He pitches well, Katz is god. He doesn't - well he was on the his last shot anyway. 

Then you have Cease...

Cease - Easy and repeatable delivery. Cease has plus, plus velo and a spin rate on the pitch that grades out as 5th in the AL (minimum 100 pitches) but a fastball that really grades as a poor pitch given the utter lack of command Cease has. His secondary offerings are relatively advanced. If Katz can do anything to improve the fastball he can get all the credit for a high ceiling player.

That's not even mentioning Kopech and Crochet. Katz can become a legend with just a few of these guys pitching to their ability. 

 

 

Our staff seems like the perfect fit for Katz.  I haven't heard a negative word yet.

Man, rodon and cease have zero room for error with Lopez still sucking. My first gulp of spring training