1 minute ago, vilehoopster said:

How can you say that this stat is not relevant?? This stat proves absolutely that, unwritten or not, everyone was aware of it and followed it. Look at the stat, zero for 557 pitches not broken in 20 years. So it was an idea of sportsmanship that everyone was aware of. So that does give validity to LaRussa being upset.

Once the Twins put a guy out there throwing 47 mph lob balls, then all bets were off.  Yermin absolutely should have been swinging there.  Taking a walk would be like taking a walk in slow-pitch softball when your team is up by 10 runs. That should be more frowned upon than swinging 3-0.  If Yermin had grounded out on the 3-0 swing, there would be zero issue and the Twins would probably be happy that he swung.  It's a classic case of judging the result instead of the process.

Having said that, I also absolutely think Yermin needs to listen to his signs. He was given the take sign, so he needs to take.  The problem is that he should have never been given the take sign to begin with. 

To Vilehoopster: Yes, the stat is not relevant. A hitter can swing at any pitch he wants.

Yes, I agree in that this matter should have been handled internally. Just call the player in your office and discuss the matter.  A manager has a right to do this, and the situation doesn't get out of control. 

I am ready to on from this. At least until LaRussa does the next dumb thing.

 

Joe McEwing didn’t appear to be terribly concerned about Yermin apparently missing the take sign and breaking some arbitrary rule consudering he went through with his homerun handshake with Yermin.

Edited May 20, 20214 yr by GermanSoxFan

I don’t know if this has been posted in the last 10 pages or not.  I apologize if it has been.  Either way, I found it funny

 

1 minute ago, SoxBlanco said:

Once the Twins put a guy out there throwing 47 mph lob balls, then all bets were off.  Yermin absolutely should have been swinging there.  Taking a walk would be like taking a walk in slow-pitch softball when your team is up by 10 runs. That should be more frowned upon than swinging 3-0.  If Yermin had grounded out on the 3-0 swing, there would be zero issue and the Twins would probably be happy that he swung.  It's a classic case of judging the result instead of the process.

Having said that, I also absolutely think Yermin needs to listen to his signs. He was given the take sign, so he needs to take.  The problem is that he should have never been given the take sign to begin with. 

This is what bothers me with posters who make "absolute" statements as fact. How could he or "should" have absolutely been swinging there when no one, not a few, not some, NO ONE had done it in 20 years. Your opinion makes it an absolute?  557 previous players in that situation disagree with you. It was zero for 557. I don't think you can say "absolutely" here. 

8 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

How can you say that this stat is not relevant?? This stat proves absolutely that, unwritten or not, everyone was aware of it and followed it. Look at the stat, zero for 557 pitches not broken in 20 years. So it was an idea of sportsmanship that everyone was aware of. So that does give validity to LaRussa being upset. Even if Mercedes didn't know, he was told to take by McEwing. McEwing has said that. I'm tired of people on here lying and saying that Mercedes didn't get the take sign. 

Here's another repeated lie on this topic I'm sick of reading on this post and site. It's the people that claim that LaRussa thinks it's okay for the Twin to throw at Mercedes, to hit Mercedes. These liars claim that LaRussa is more concerned with the unwritten rules than if one of his players getting injured by being hit by a pitch. Mercedes wasn't hit by a pitch, and he wasn't hit by a pitch because the pitcher didn't throw at him; he threw behind Mercedes. There was no chance of Mercedes being injured, and it's a lie to say there was, a lie continually repeated on this site by people to reinforce a ridiculous point. What LaRussa was okay with is that the Twins made their statement about the 3 and O swing without any chance of Mercedes or any other Sox being hurt. That's what LaRussa was fine with, that the incident was over and the Twins made their statement and, again, no chance of someone being hurt from either team. So stop repeating that lie that LaRussa was okay with Mercedes being hit: LaRussa isn't okay with that and no one was hit. 

As a former high school basketball coach who has had to sit players down for taunting the other team, I agree with LaRussa about respecting your opponent and the game and not embarrassing your opponent when they're down. I know showboating and showing another player up is common now, but I still have problems with it and I think LaRussa had a right to be angry, especially when Yermin was told to take the pitch, just like he has the right to be angry that Moncada ran through the hold at 3rd sign and got thrown out at home during the gamed the night before. Sorry, make your old man yells at kids to stay off lawn jokes, but I still believe players should do what their coaches tell them to do and players should respect the game and their opponents. 

Now, if you want to complain about LaRussa on this, there are couple points you could make: First, this stuff never should have gotten out of the clubhouse. I guess the media today makes that all but impossible. Still, I would have like Tony to really, really tried to avoid any questions on this and try to keep it in house. 

And now the thing that really bothers me and has anyone brought this up?  When LaRussa was hired, he was told that stuff like this was gonna happen, excessive celebrations, bat throwing, taunting and showboating. He was told this was gonna happen with this team. Tony made it clear that he understood that players have changed and he's would have to be understanding on this sort of thing. Now, I'm sure this isn't the first thing that a Sox player has done that rubbed TLR wrong, but the 3 and 0 swing was exactly the type of thing he was told would happen, and he replied that he would be, I don't know the right word, "accepting" or and that he could ignore it. And he didn't. This is what bothers me: he is doing exactly what he was told he couldn't do because it would alienate his players, and he said he wouldn't do it, but he did. 

I hope he can learn from this, and I hope he and the players have talked this out, but that he did what he was told not to do and said he wouldn't do, that is cause for concern. So let's deal with that not all the BS made up stuff that's not true. 

 

When talking about something that is mostly subjective, calling people liars is basically a personal attack.  When the evidence is all out there and you are 100% completely wrong, it is a slap in the face to everyone who you are disagreeing with.  You want to get an attitude about unwritten rules, and sportsmanship, yet write a post like this?  You were hypocrite as soon as you hit send.  You lost all of the BS high moral ground you tried to act like you had.  GTFOH. 

12 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

How can you say that this stat is not relevant?? This stat proves absolutely that, unwritten or not, everyone was aware of it and followed it. Look at the stat, zero for 557 pitches not broken in 20 years. So it was an idea of sportsmanship that everyone was aware of. So that does give validity to LaRussa being upset. Even if Mercedes didn't know, he was told to take by McEwing. McEwing has said that. I'm tired of people on here lying and saying that Mercedes didn't get the take sign. 

Here's another repeated lie on this topic I'm sick of reading on this post and site. It's the people that claim that LaRussa thinks it's okay for the Twin to throw at Mercedes, to hit Mercedes. These liars claim that LaRussa is more concerned with the unwritten rules than if one of his players getting injured by being hit by a pitch. Mercedes wasn't hit by a pitch, and he wasn't hit by a pitch because the pitcher didn't throw at him; he threw behind Mercedes. There was no chance of Mercedes being injured, and it's a lie to say there was, a lie continually repeated on this site by people to reinforce a ridiculous point. What LaRussa was okay with is that the Twins made their statement about the 3 and O swing without any chance of Mercedes or any other Sox being hurt. That's what LaRussa was fine with, that the incident was over and the Twins made their statement and, again, no chance of someone being hurt from either team. So stop repeating that lie that LaRussa was okay with Mercedes being hit: LaRussa isn't okay with that and no one was hit. 

As a former high school basketball coach who has had to sit players down for taunting the other team, I agree with LaRussa about respecting your opponent and the game and not embarrassing your opponent when they're down. I know showboating and showing another player up is common now, but I still have problems with it and I think LaRussa had a right to be angry, especially when Yermin was told to take the pitch, just like he has the right to be angry that Moncada ran through the hold at 3rd sign and got thrown out at home during the gamed the night before. Sorry, make your old man yells at kids to stay off lawn jokes, but I still believe players should do what their coaches tell them to do and players should respect the game and their opponents. 

Now, if you want to complain about LaRussa on this, there are couple points you could make: First, this stuff never should have gotten out of the clubhouse. I guess the media today makes that all but impossible. Still, I would have like Tony to really, really tried to avoid any questions on this and try to keep it in house. 

And now the thing that really bothers me and has anyone brought this up?  When LaRussa was hired, he was told that stuff like this was gonna happen, excessive celebrations, bat throwing, taunting and showboating. He was told this was gonna happen with this team. Tony made it clear that he understood that players have changed and he's would have to be understanding on this sort of thing. Now, I'm sure this isn't the first thing that a Sox player has done that rubbed TLR wrong, but the 3 and 0 swing was exactly the type of thing he was told would happen, and he replied that he would be, I don't know the right word, "accepting" or and that he could ignore it. And he didn't. This is what bothers me: he is doing exactly what he was told he couldn't do because it would alienate his players, and he said he wouldn't do it, but he did. 

I hope he can learn from this, and I hope he and the players have talked this out, but that he did what he was told not to do and said he wouldn't do, that is cause for concern. So let's deal with that not all the BS made up stuff that's not true. 

 

Then you better stop rooting for the White Sox, as they are giving out these bobble heads on May 28th

Move along, grandpa. 

3 minutes ago, NWINFan said:

To Vilehoopster: Yes, the stat is not relevant. A hitter can swing at any pitch he wants.

Yes, I agree in that this matter should have been handled internally. Just call the player in your office and discuss the matter.  A manager has a right to do this, and the situation doesn't get out of control. 

I am ready to on from this. At least until LaRussa does the next dumb thing.

 

Unless his coach/ manger tells him not to. So a .197 hitter in the 8th of a tied game with a man of 1st, he gets the take sign. According to your post that batter can swing away. Your exact quote was, "A hitter can swing at any pitch he wants."

Come on you guys, think before you post. 

3 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

This is what bothers me with posters who make "absolute" statements as fact. How could he or "should" have absolutely been swinging there when no one, not a few, not some, NO ONE had done it in 20 years. Your opinion makes it an absolute?  557 previous players in that situation disagree with you. It was zero for 557. I don't think you can say "absolutely" here. 

Do you know why he should be absolutely be swinging there? Because he's paid to do what he did. It was the best possible outcome. 

Again, for the 100th time, you're upset Mercedes hit a home run for the White Sox. Think about that for a second. Take it in. 

11 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

How can you say that this stat is not relevant?? This stat proves absolutely that, unwritten or not, everyone was aware of it and followed it. Look at the stat, zero for 557 pitches not broken in 20 years. So it was an idea of sportsmanship that everyone was aware of. So that does give validity to LaRussa being upset. Even if Mercedes didn't know, he was told to take by McEwing. McEwing has said that. I'm tired of people on here lying and saying that Mercedes didn't get the take sign. 

Here's another repeated lie on this topic I'm sick of reading on this post and site. It's the people that claim that LaRussa thinks it's okay for the Twin to throw at Mercedes, to hit Mercedes. These liars claim that LaRussa is more concerned with the unwritten rules than if one of his players getting injured by being hit by a pitch. Mercedes wasn't hit by a pitch, and he wasn't hit by a pitch because the pitcher didn't throw at him; he threw behind Mercedes. There was no chance of Mercedes being injured, and it's a lie to say there was, a lie continually repeated on this site by people to reinforce a ridiculous point. What LaRussa was okay with is that the Twins made their statement about the 3 and O swing without any chance of Mercedes or any other Sox being hurt. That's what LaRussa was fine with, that the incident was over and the Twins made their statement and, again, no chance of someone being hurt from either team. So stop repeating that lie that LaRussa was okay with Mercedes being hit: LaRussa isn't okay with that and no one was hit. 

As a former high school basketball coach who has had to sit players down for taunting the other team, I agree with LaRussa about respecting your opponent and the game and not embarrassing your opponent when they're down. I know showboating and showing another player up is common now, but I still have problems with it and I think LaRussa had a right to be angry, especially when Yermin was told to take the pitch, just like he has the right to be angry that Moncada ran through the hold at 3rd sign and got thrown out at home during the gamed the night before. Sorry, make your old man yells at kids to stay off lawn jokes, but I still believe players should do what their coaches tell them to do and players should respect the game and their opponents. 

Now, if you want to complain about LaRussa on this, there are couple points you could make: First, this stuff never should have gotten out of the clubhouse. I guess the media today makes that all but impossible. Still, I would have like Tony to really, really tried to avoid any questions on this and try to keep it in house. 

And now the thing that really bothers me and has anyone brought this up?  When LaRussa was hired, he was told that stuff like this was gonna happen, excessive celebrations, bat throwing, taunting and showboating. He was told this was gonna happen with this team. Tony made it clear that he understood that players have changed and he's would have to be understanding on this sort of thing. Now, I'm sure this isn't the first thing that a Sox player has done that rubbed TLR wrong, but the 3 and 0 swing was exactly the type of thing he was told would happen, and he replied that he would be, I don't know the right word, "accepting" or and that he could ignore it. And he didn't. This is what bothers me: he is doing exactly what he was told he couldn't do because it would alienate his players, and he said he wouldn't do it, but he did. 

I hope he can learn from this, and I hope he and the players have talked this out, but that he did what he was told not to do and said he wouldn't do, that is cause for concern. So let's deal with that not all the BS made up stuff that's not true. 

 

McEwing told him to take? and McEwing said that?  Where is that posted anywhere - I haven't see one quote anywhere from McEwing.  If you watch the tape - mercedes isnt even looking for signs - because there are none in a 16-4 blow out.

 

Its ironic that you are boldly talking about lies and BS when a lot of the stuff you are saying is debatable or flat out made up by TLR.  

So mercedes had NO CHANCE of being hurt? Do you think Duffy threw behind him on purpose? Or did he miss? 

You know when pitchers throw at hitters they can often miss their target - it happens.... so the no chance thing you are spewing is false.

 

 

1 minute ago, vilehoopster said:

Unless his coach/ manger tells him not to. So a .197 hitter in the 8th of a tied game with a man of 1st, he gets the take sign. According to your post that batter can swing away. Your exact quote was, "A hitter can swing at any pitch he wants."

Come on you guys, think before you post. 

Apples to oranges. Nobody looked at the signs. Watch the inning again..

Just now, harkness99 said:

McEwing told him to take? and McEwing said that?  Where is that posted anywhere - I haven't see one quote anywhere from McEwing.  If you watch the tape - mercedes isnt even looking for signs - because there are none in a 16-4 blow out.

 

Its ironic that you are boldly talking about lies and BS when a lot of the stuff you are saying is debatable or flat out made up by TLR.  

So mercedes had NO CHANCE of being hurt? Do you think Duffy threw behind him on purpose? Or did he miss? 

You know when pitchers throw at hitters they can often miss their target - it happens.... so the no chance thing you are spewing is false.

 

 

Joe McEwing said that Yermin missed a take sign.  That is am important distinction and correction here meaning, according to our 3B coach who would be giving the signs, that Yermin DIDN'T actually know he should be taking.

35 minutes ago, Chisoxmb35 said:

Wait what? Reigning them in? It looks like he's close to losing the clubhouse with his geriatric worldview.. if he hasn't lost it now with the Yermim insanity.. We are winning IN SPITE of LA Russa, not because of him. In actuality we need to KEEP complaining about this until he gets fired as it's actually hurting the team in real time!

 

*Edit-typos

Not sure that will happen. I doubt  JR even know who Yermin is and  Hahn probably headed fr the tall grass. 

2 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

Unless his coach/ manger tells him not to. So a .197 hitter in the 8th of a tied game with a man of 1st, he gets the take sign. According to your post that batter can swing away. Your exact quote was, "A hitter can swing at any pitch he wants."

Come on you guys, think before you post. 

thats a completely different situation and plus  the entire "he ignored a take sign" is either revisionist history with some fictional editing or complete bullshit... he isn't even looking at McEwing.

 

17 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

How can you say that this stat is not relevant?? This stat proves absolutely that, unwritten or not, everyone was aware of it and followed it. Look at the stat, zero for 557 pitches not broken in 20 years. So it was an idea of sportsmanship that everyone was aware of. So that does give validity to LaRussa being upset. Even if Mercedes didn't know, he was told to take by McEwing. McEwing has said that. I'm tired of people on here lying and saying that Mercedes didn't get the take sign. 

Here's another repeated lie on this topic I'm sick of reading on this post and site. It's the people that claim that LaRussa thinks it's okay for the Twin to throw at Mercedes, to hit Mercedes. These liars claim that LaRussa is more concerned with the unwritten rules than if one of his players getting injured by being hit by a pitch. Mercedes wasn't hit by a pitch, and he wasn't hit by a pitch because the pitcher didn't throw at him; he threw behind Mercedes. There was no chance of Mercedes being injured, and it's a lie to say there was, a lie continually repeated on this site by people to reinforce a ridiculous point. What LaRussa was okay with is that the Twins made their statement about the 3 and O swing without any chance of Mercedes or any other Sox being hurt. That's what LaRussa was fine with, that the incident was over and the Twins made their statement and, again, no chance of someone being hurt from either team. So stop repeating that lie that LaRussa was okay with Mercedes being hit: LaRussa isn't okay with that and no one was hit. 

As a former high school basketball coach who has had to sit players down for taunting the other team, I agree with LaRussa about respecting your opponent and the game and not embarrassing your opponent when they're down. I know showboating and showing another player up is common now, but I still have problems with it and I think LaRussa had a right to be angry, especially when Yermin was told to take the pitch, just like he has the right to be angry that Moncada ran through the hold at 3rd sign and got thrown out at home during the gamed the night before. Sorry, make your old man yells at kids to stay off lawn jokes, but I still believe players should do what their coaches tell them to do and players should respect the game and their opponents. 

Now, if you want to complain about LaRussa on this, there are couple points you could make: First, this stuff never should have gotten out of the clubhouse. I guess the media today makes that all but impossible. Still, I would have like Tony to really, really tried to avoid any questions on this and try to keep it in house. 

And now the thing that really bothers me and has anyone brought this up?  When LaRussa was hired, he was told that stuff like this was gonna happen, excessive celebrations, bat throwing, taunting and showboating. He was told this was gonna happen with this team. Tony made it clear that he understood that players have changed and he's would have to be understanding on this sort of thing. Now, I'm sure this isn't the first thing that a Sox player has done that rubbed TLR wrong, but the 3 and 0 swing was exactly the type of thing he was told would happen, and he replied that he would be, I don't know the right word, "accepting" or and that he could ignore it. And he didn't. This is what bothers me: he is doing exactly what he was told he couldn't do because it would alienate his players, and he said he wouldn't do it, but he did. 

I hope he can learn from this, and I hope he and the players have talked this out, but that he did what he was told not to do and said he wouldn't do, that is cause for concern. So let's deal with that not all the BS made up stuff that's not true. 

 

I don't give a fuck about it, it's stupid and irrelevant and the game should move on

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

When talking about something that is mostly subjective, calling people liars is basically a personal attack.  When the evidence is all out there and you are 100% completely wrong, it is a slap in the face to everyone who you are disagreeing with.  You want to get an attitude about unwritten rules, and sportsmanship, yet write a post like this?  You were hypocrite as soon as you hit send.  You lost all of the BS high moral ground you tried to act like you had.  GTFOH. 

Is it subjective, or is it people manipulating fact in a situation to prove a erroneous point? What the term for people like that?

So, your point is that people weren't purposeful in their inaccurate description of what happened, that they just saw it that way and are therefore not liars. I think you have some validity here.

But the point is that they continue to repeat something that is not true. How does one deal with that?

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

Joe McEwing said that Yermin missed a take sign.  That is am important distinction and correction here meaning, according to our 3B coach who would be giving the signs, that Yermin DIDN'T actually know he should be taking.

I never saw any quotes from McEwing.

5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Joe McEwing said that Yermin missed a take sign.  That is am important distinction and correction here meaning, according to our 3B coach who would be giving the signs, that Yermin DIDN'T actually know he should be taking.

Missed/ignored are word games.  McEwing gave the sign and Mercedes didn't follow it.  Just because McEwing isn't throwing him under the bus like Tony doesn't mean anything.

Edited May 20, 20214 yr by Green Line

2 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I don't give a fuck about it, it's stupid and irrelevant and the game should move on

.. And, that's just your opinion.  Other people have different opinions.  Thats life.

1 minute ago, vilehoopster said:

Is it subjective, or is it people manipulating fact in a situation to prove a erroneous point? What the term for people like that?

So, your point is that people weren't purposeful in their inaccurate description of what happened, that they just saw it that way and are therefore not liars. I think you have some validity here.

But the point is that they continue to repeat something that is not true. How does one deal with that?

MY point is that you are 100% wrong here.  All of the interviews and written materials very clearly show that.  It was also that you calling people people liars while talking about respect and sportsmanship in the same post would be bad enough by itself for the depth of the hypocrisy that you just showed, but the fact that you are 100% in that assertion actually makes it worse.

Just now, Green Line said:

.. And, that's just your opinion.  Other people have different opinions.  Thats life.

That's absolutely true, the difference is I'm not calling you stupid or a liar, I'm telling you why I feel you are wrong.  
 

and I know it wasn't you calling people liars and stupid 

7 minutes ago, Tony said:

Do you know why he should be absolutely be swinging there? Because he's paid to do what he did. It was the best possible outcome. 

Again, for the 100th time, you're upset Mercedes hit a home run for the White Sox. Think about that for a second. Take it in. 

Because he didn't respect the Twins.

1 minute ago, Green Line said:

Now you're just playing dumb.  Missed/ignored are word games.  McEwing gave the sign and Mercedes didn't follow it.  Just because McEwing isn't throwing him under the bus like Tony doesn't mean anything.

Because this story is bogus... if you watch the video 

mercedes isn't looking at McEwing because at 16-4 why would he be?

Just now, harkness99 said:

Because this story is bogus... if you watch the video 

mercedes isn't looking at McEwing because at 16-4 why would he be?

There's no way for anyone to really know what he saw and didn't see.

4 minutes ago, harkness99 said:

I never saw any quotes from McEwing.

I take that back.  It was actually Tony who said he missed a sign.

McEwing said he had no problem with what Mercedes did.