27 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

For those who think Escobar is meh please be advised that his 15 HR's would currently lead the team. His .743 OPS would currently be 4th on the Sox behind Moncada, Abreu and Anderson and only Moncada is barely above .800 OPS. Moncada's OPS is propped up by his walks.

If Moncada get's injured Escobar can replace him at 3rd base.

Escobar's Slg % is .455 which would be 1st on the Sox. Abreu 's is .448 Moncada's is .403. Mendick  Slg % is .315 .

Against RHP his Slg % is .431 which would put him 3rd on the team behind Vaughn's .726 and Anderson's .446

Against RHP his 10 HR's would be 1st on the Sox.

Against LHP his 5 HR's would be tied with 2nd with Vaughn only behind Abreu's 6.

Against LHP his Slg. % is .530 which would be 3rd on the Sox behind  Vaughn and Abreu .

 

Contrary to popular belief without Eloy and Madrigal who actually had the Highest Slg Pct against LHP on the Sox (besides Vaughn) when injured, the Sox do not kill LHP anymore.

After Vaughn's outstanding .726 Slg. vs. RHP and Abreu is Mercedes and he can't be counted on anymore. After Mercedes is Grandal at .417 . After Grandal not a single regular above .358 .

All of this should tell you that if you think Escobar is meh then you should think the whole lineup is meh especially against RHP and yes ,even against LHP.

He is definitely better than Mendick and just about anyone on the Sox in an area where the Sox suck and that is power and slugging from both sides of the plate. When your 2 best LHH's OPS are propped up by walks putting Escobar behind our walk machines whether he hits righty or lefty Escobar is a pretty big upgrade.

I think I’m just of the mindset that unless they go out and get a stud, a trade like this doesn’t move the needle enough to World Series winner. Too many injuries and worried the SP might regress in the second half. 

Sox need healthy, professional hitters in their lineup ASAP.  Everybody is slumping/hurt right now except for Grandal, who doesn't have the ability to carry a team offensively.  The staff has been great, but who knows how that changes after today's enforcement update.  I think Escobar makes tons of sense as long as he's healthy and cheap.  You've got a  pretty favorable schedule to end the first half here, use it to get healthy and get these guys "right" and figure out if that's enough to make a deep playoff run.  If not, you still have a few weeks to add more pieces before July 31st.

12 minutes ago, hi8is said:

I’m not ready to call us desperate 

I think we are . The Sox need power badly. Look at how Escobar ,who shouldn't cost all that much but probably will be a pretty popular upgrade for a lot of teams, helps the Sox versatility and slugging from both sides of the plate. See my long post above.

7 minutes ago, ShoeLessRob said:

I think I’m just of the mindset that unless they go out and get a stud, a trade like this doesn’t move the needle enough to World Series winner. Too many injuries and worried the SP might regress in the second half. 

The only stud the Sox could afford with the power they need is Schwarber and the Nats probably aren't ready to throw in the towel on their season yet. Schwarber is great against RHP but he's just another walk machine like Grandal against LHP and he cant replace Moncada if Moncada goes down like Escobar can,

Against RHP and LHP the Sox aren't that good when it comes to power. Starting pitching is a key to every team with who knows whats happening with the sticky stuff enforcement. All the Sox can do is try to get better with power and depth and Escobar provides both against righties and lefties. If they can get Schwarber too I'd be thrilled but if it comes down to Schwarber or Escobar I'd have to go with Escobar.

If we leave starting pitching out of it the Sox chances to reach and win the World Series depends a lot of Eloy and Robert returning to being themselves.  I don't think they can do either without them. In the meantime improving depth and power from both sides of the plate is crucial.

49 minutes ago, hi8is said:

I’m not ready to call us desperate 

We are. Who are our top 5 homer guys and how many homers? 

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Against RHP his Slg % is .431 which would put him 3rd on the team behind Vaughn's .726 and Anderson's .446

 

After Vaughn's outstanding .726 Slg. vs. RHP 

You'd better look again @ Vaughns slugging vs RHP:

Vaughns Splits

 

Vaughn ain't slugging an otherworldly .726 vs. RHP. Hes slugging a putrid, anemic, NL pitcher-level .242 vs R as R. That's NOT his batting average. That's NOT his OBP. He's slugging a shitty .242 vs. RHP. If Leury were doing that, people would be losing their fucking shit over it on these boards. 

And thats one reason why Vaughn has to be sent down. He sucks out loud vs. RHP at an almost-entirely offensive position. While burning through his controllable years, and not really learning anything. This org has asked Vaughn to do the impossible, and its perfectly fine to admit that he's just not yet ready. Especially, in a "Win Now" season.

 

Now, insofar as Escobar goes, I'd take him. He's even played LF in the past, so if you'd want to put him there, fine. He'd fucking be better than Andrew Vaughn is right now vs the ~75% or so MLB pitchers that are RHP.

Edited June 22, 20214 yr by Two-Gun Pete

52 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I think we are . The Sox need power badly. Look at how Escobar ,who shouldn't cost all that much but probably will be a pretty popular upgrade for a lot of teams, helps the Sox versatility and slugging from both sides of the plate. See my long post above.

Certainly read your post and you make really good points. I think we can still win at the needed clip until we get Eloy and Robert back.

Also think we can find someone better than Escobar. I like that he’s a switch hitting infielder but players like Castellanos, Marte, Santander would be better for the lineup immediately.

1 hour ago, RTC said:

So let’s get more of that? 
 

#allthemediocrity! 

Well there isn't just obp, he has a 450 SLG which would place him  second on the sox in 21. Obviously he is not elite but he is a big upgrade that doesn't cost a ton

15 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Certainly read your post and you make really good points. I think we can still win at the needed clip until we get Eloy and Robert back.

Also think we can find someone better than Escobar. I like that he’s a switch hitting infielder but players like Castellanos, Marte, Santander would be better for the lineup immediately.

I don’t think this is a one or another type thing.  The Sox need will need to add two bats and will almost certainly go with a more reasonable priced option for 2B and likely explore more impactful options for the OF.

Personally, I think Escobar is about as good of a rental you can get for a decent price.  Versatile player, strong defender at 2B, fairly even offensive splits (101 wRC+ vs RHP, 105 vs LHP since 2017), and provides some much needed power (.211 ISO since 2017) which complements the lineup nicely. He’s also a great clubhouse guy who will help the team in whatever role they need him in.  He is not a star, but he’s exactly what we need for half a year with Madrigal out.

14 minutes ago, Dominikk85 said:

Well there isn't just obp, he has a 450 SLG which would place him  second on the sox in 21. Obviously he is not elite but he is a big upgrade that doesn't cost a ton

And let’s be honest, we don’t have much to trade.  Not sure what kind of additions are expecting.

26 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Certainly read your post and you make really good points. I think we can still win at the needed clip until we get Eloy and Robert back.

Also think we can find someone better than Escobar. I like that he’s a switch hitting infielder but players like Castellanos, Marte, Santander would be better for the lineup immediately.

I'm just trying to be realistic. The guys you mentioned like Castellanos, Starling Marte I assume and Santander all are difficult to attain , each one for various reasons. The most realistic would be Starling Marte. Reds arent giving up on their season yet and a guy like Castellanos is probably cost prohibitive and not a good OF, Starling Marte is a great player and a rental but still will cost more than Escobar. Santander would be costly and how likely are the Orioles to give him up ?

The Sox might be able to win at the needed clip until Eloy and Robert get back but I'd like to make sure of that and make the lineup even stronger going into the playoffs with them and Escobar without decimating the few good pieces we have on the farm. I also like the insurance Escobar provides for Moncada. None of the OF'er who you brought up can do that . I'd definitely check in on Starling Marte. I want to win at a clip that will give us home field advantage through the playoffs . Being at home would be a big advantage.

3 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I'm just trying to be realistic. The guys you mentioned like Castellanos, Starling Marte I assume and Santander all are difficult to attain , each one for various reasons. The most realistic would be Starling Marte. Reds arent giving up on their season yet and a guy like Castellanos is probably cost prohibitive and not a good OF, Starling Marte is a great player and a rental but still will cost more than Escobar. Santander would be costly and how likely are the Orioles to give him up ?

The Sox might be able to win at the needed clip until Eloy and Robert get back but I'd like to make sure of that and make the lineup even stronger going into the playoffs with them and Escobar without decimating the few good pieces we have on the farm. I also like the insurance Escobar provides for Moncada. None of the OF'er who you brought up can do that . I'd definitely check in on Starling Marte. I want to win at a clip that will give us home field advantage through the playoffs . Being at home would be a big advantage.

Alrighty - I’m sold.

Escobar + an arm for the pen + another bat... because why not.

59 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Alrighty - I’m sold.

Escobar + an arm for the pen + another bat... because why not.

I am both shocked and dismayed. I think it's the 1st time in the history of my many years on Soxtalk that someone has actually said this to me. For that you get an emoji of love !

Remember when the Sox made trades with the DBacks like 1-2 times every year?

It's been a while.

31 minutes ago, YourWhatHurts said:

Remember when the Sox made trades with the DBacks like 1-2 times every year?

It's been a while.

As long as they perform more like 2008 Quentin and 2016 Eaton than Alex Cintron... 

I'm taking the hold up is Escobar's injury???.

 

7 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

As long as they perform more like 2008 Quentin and 2016 Eaton than Alex Cintron... 

Also the every-other-year "good" version of Javy Vazquez, and Matt Davidson vs. the Royals

15 minutes ago, 2Deep said:

I'm taking the hold up is Escobar's injury???.

 

Or the rumor is garbage. 

16 hours ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

You'd better look again @ Vaughns slugging vs RHP:

Vaughns Splits

 

Vaughn ain't slugging an otherworldly .726 vs. RHP. Hes slugging a putrid, anemic, NL pitcher-level .242 vs R as R. That's NOT his batting average. That's NOT his OBP. He's slugging a shitty .242 vs. RHP. If Leury were doing that, people would be losing their fucking shit over it on these boards. 

And thats one reason why Vaughn has to be sent down. He sucks out loud vs. RHP at an almost-entirely offensive position. While burning through his controllable years, and not really learning anything. This org has asked Vaughn to do the impossible, and its perfectly fine to admit that he's just not yet ready. Especially, in a "Win Now" season.

 

Now, insofar as Escobar goes, I'd take him. He's even played LF in the past, so if you'd want to put him there, fine. He'd fucking be better than Andrew Vaughn is right now vs the ~75% or so MLB pitchers that are RHP.

Sorry I meant LHP. I was looking up so many stats for so many players and jumping back and forth between 2 different stats websites and my post against both RHP and LHP trying not to making a mistake. I obviously didn't accomplish that. I will go over the post again and fix it. Done. Thanks for pointing it out.

And trust me I agree with almost everything you said about Vaughn except for sending him down. He's just too good against LHP to send him down. I want every advantage the Sox can get against LHP too because the Sox lost a big contributor against RHP in Mercedes because he is totally unreliable now. Vaughn bat against LHP will help pick up some of that slack DHing or playing the OF vs. LHP. I took a lot of heat early in the season for saying what you are saying now.

He'll also continue to get AB's against RHP on the small chance he can show some vast improvement in sporadic AB's against them. That might not be what we want but it's still going to happen.

 

Edited June 22, 20214 yr by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

19 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Or the rumor is garbage. 

It certainly makes a ton of sense on paper. Although with Nightengale leaking it, I can't help but wonder why the Sox intentionally want this info out there. They normally don't operate like that unless they are looking at an alternative option and trying to force their hand?

Escobar was on the bench tonight, but apparently was available if needed.  At least the injury concerns seem to be cleared up.

Could be unrelated but figured I’d post since a Eduardo + Soria combo was being discussed earlier in this thread. 

 

5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Could be unrelated but figured I’d post since a Eduardo + Soria combo was being discussed earlier in this thread. 

 

Soria kinda sucks. Should just be a throw in to the deal.

3 minutes ago, chw42 said:

Soria kinda sucks. Should just be a throw in to the deal.

Yea I don't want Soria or any D'backs relievers. Aim higher.

7 minutes ago, chw42 said:

Soria kinda sucks. Should just be a throw in to the deal.

Could also be us absorbing money to reduce prospect cost.