6 minutes ago, bmags said:

July but yeah

Ok, that makes more sense, but these articles are saying it’s approaching and it’s still 6 weeks out. 

7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The Vera, Dalquist, Kelley, Thompson crowd is the second wave.  They are the ones who come in after guys fall off, or leave.

If you believe in the 2nd wave sure. I don't. I'd rather win the World Series now. We all know with Reinsdorf around there isn't going to be any sustained success. For that to happen the Sox would have to operate like a cross between the Rays and how they operate now. It feels like its getting better in that regard with Katz and some other changes but the talent evaluations are still  lacking  as is going after guys who process talent on both sides of the ball. It still feels like the team possesses too many 1st base , C, DH types and is short on up the middle  athletic versatile well rounded players.

All of this should have been accomplished at the beginning of the rebuild. Instead of spending money on it they spent money on idiotic veteran players  and picking up those 1st base DH types I was talking about.

Edited June 17, 20214 yr by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

Just now, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

If you believe in the 2nd wave sure. I don't. I'd rather win the World Series now. We all know with Reinsdorf around there isn't going to be any sustained success. For that to happen the Sox would have to operate like a cross between the Rays and how they operate now. It feels like its getting better in that regard with Katz and some other changes but the talent evaluations are still  lacking  as is going after guys who process talent on both sides of the ball. It still feels like the team possesses too many 1st base , C, DH types and is short on up the middle  athletic versatile well rounded players.

So the solution is trading all of the young starting pitching.

18 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

How much do you give up for Frazier? One of Sheets/Burger + one of Stiever/Thompson?

Something like Stiever + Sheets + Gonzalez + Burdi

20 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The problem with Frazier is that he's been good for about 220 at bats of his entire career.

But he also never was bad except for the shortened 2020, a 105 career wrc+ is obviouisly not a star but a decent fill at 2b in which is better than what you can expect from mendick (about a 90 wrc+ or so according to projections). 

All depends on the price of course, all of the top5 prospects should be off limits. But if it costs like two guys in the 7-15 range why not? 

Edited June 17, 20214 yr by Dominikk85

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

So the solution is trading all of the young starting pitching.

Ok lets not start misquoting me  before we go any further please. I never said the solution is trading all the starting pitching. Please quote something I actually said otherwise it's not worth responding to. It really subverts actual baseball discussion when you paraphrase or put words in someones mouth.

4 minutes ago, Dominikk85 said:

But he also never was bad except for the shortened 2020, a 105 career wrc+ is obviouisly not a star but a decent fill at 2b in which is better than what you can expect from mendick (about a 90 wrc+ or so according to projections). 

All depends on the price of course, all of the top5 prospects should be off limits. But if it costs like two guys in the 7-15 range why not? 

Because you are talking about like a .5 WAR difference.  That isn’t going to help much if at all in the playoffs. And for what, trading away prospects that could help sustain playoff appearances?

12 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Castellanos was practically a bust prior to going to the Cubs.

He had a 119, 111 and 129 wRC+ the three years prior to the trade. His defensive ratings were bad, but he certainly wasn't a "bust." Frazier has never had a 120+ game season over 100 wRC+ and the one season he was at 116 he played 113 games.

6 minutes ago, Dominikk85 said:

But he also never was bad except for the shortened 2020, a 105 career wrc+ is obviouisly not a star but a decent fill at 2b in which is better than what you can expect from mendick (about a 90 wrc+ or so according to projections). 

All depends on the price of course, all of the top5 prospects should be off limits. But if it costs like two guys in the 7-15 range why not? 

He's been a below average major leaguer every year but one of his career. You cannot guarantee me that he's better than Danny Mendick so why would I trade anything that could ever even be a MLB player for him?

27 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The problem with Frazier is that he's been good for about 220 at bats of his entire career.

You identify young talent and you go after it  then you trade it before it gets too expensive. This is what TB does so well . I'd rather get Escobar because he would be cheaper if I want to live in Reinsdorfs head and have room to add some arms.

Sox are gonna trade for Trevor Story and the Rockies are gonna give us money for it, dammit. 

8 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Ok lets not start misquoting me  before we go any further please. I never said the solution is trading all the starting pitching. Please quote something I actually said otherwise it's not worth responding to. It really subverts actual baseball discussion when you paraphrase or put words in someones mouth.

If you feel like our MiLB system has one type of player, and your solution is to trade the young pitching to help the MLB team, that is exactly what will happen.

5 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

You identify young talent and you go after it  then you trade it before it gets too expensive. This is what TB does so well . I'd rather get Escobar because he would be cheaper if I want to live in Reinsdorfs head and have room to add some arms.

Frazier is 29/30 years old

Edited June 17, 20214 yr by Look at Ray Ray Run

4 minutes ago, YoYoIsMyHero said:

Sox are gonna trade for Trevor Story and the Rockies are gonna give us money for it, dammit. 

Now that would be a big time move LOL. .Bye bye Crochet

Edited June 17, 20214 yr by Squirmin' for Yermin

Would you trade Mendick for Escobar? Personally, I think Frazier is going to cost too much, and regressing to the mean is probable.

Edited June 17, 20214 yr by Dick Allen

7 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Frazier is 29/30 years old

I already said I prefer Escobar mainly because he hits HR's and we don't need Frazier for 2 years. Please contribute your ideas to the discussion unless you are afraid of being wrong.

Just now, Dick Allen said:

Would you trade Mendick for Escobar?

Damn straight I would.

16 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

If you feel like our MiLB system has one type of player, and your solution is to trade the young pitching to help the MLB team, that is exactly what will happen.

Ok I asked you to quote something I said. That's pretty easy to do here  and since you didn't . End of discussion. There's a reason why courtrooms have stenographers but apparently you have no use for using the info easily at hand.

 

Edited June 17, 20214 yr by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

38 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

If you believe in the 2nd wave sure. I don't. I'd rather win the World Series now. We all know with Reinsdorf around there isn't going to be any sustained success. For that to happen the Sox would have to operate like a cross between the Rays and how they operate now. It feels like its getting better in that regard with Katz and some other changes but the talent evaluations are still  lacking  as is going after guys who process talent on both sides of the ball. It still feels like the team possesses too many 1st base , C, DH types and is short on up the middle  athletic versatile well rounded players.

All of this should have been accomplished at the beginning of the rebuild. Instead of spending money on it they spent money on idiotic veteran players  and picking up those 1st base DH types I was talking about.

But why not both? You're talking about the wave of guys that are years away from contributing (Kelley, etc) in order to win now. Why not trade the "almost ready" guys like Sheets and Stiever to win now, and then keep those second wave guys like Kelley?

We can go both: win now and prepare for replacing Gio and Keuchel in the future. We have so much of the core locked up for 5+ years that guys like Kelley that come cheap are exactly what we need to AVOID Reinsdorf impeding future success.

49 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

If you believe in the 2nd wave sure. I don't. I'd rather win the World Series now. We all know with Reinsdorf around there isn't going to be any sustained success. For that to happen the Sox would have to operate like a cross between the Rays and how they operate now. It feels like its getting better in that regard with Katz and some other changes but the talent evaluations are still  lacking  as is going after guys who process talent on both sides of the ball. It still feels like the team possesses too many 1st base , C, DH types and is short on up the middle  athletic versatile well rounded players.

All of this should have been accomplished at the beginning of the rebuild. Instead of spending money on it they spent money on idiotic veteran players  and picking up those 1st base DH types I was talking about.

Didn’t they hit on almost every acquisition so far?

46 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

If you feel like our MiLB system has one type of player, and your solution is to trade the young pitching to help the MLB team, that is exactly what will happen.

I really don't want to trade the next Bassitt for some rental 2B that will produce .5 more WAR than Mendick and mean jack squat in the playoffs.  One of Kelley, Steiver, Lampert and so forth will probably be a decent 4th starter cost controlled for 6+ years at the MLB level.  Why make a trade like that?  The Sox' window is wide open not just this year but potentially the next 4+.  Don't trade a guy that can contribute to another playoff team in 2025 in some misguided attempt to go "all in" needlessly.

Edited June 17, 20214 yr by chitownsportsfan

1 hour ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Castellanos was practically a bust prior to going to the Cubs.

He had an 830 ops and 193 extra base hits the three years prior to going to the cubs

7 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I really don't want to trade the next Bassitt for some rental 2B that will produce .5 more WAR than Mendick and mean jack squat in the playoffs.  One of Kelley, Steiver, Lampert and so forth will probably be a decent 4th starter cost controlled for 6+ years at the MLB level.  Why make a trade like that?  The Sox' window is wide open not just this year but potentially the next 4+.  Don't trade a guy that can contribute to another playoff team in 2025 in some misguided attempt to go "all in" needlessly.

Exactly.  You trade a Dunning because he’s super old for a prospect, has severe innings limits and had no realistic chance of really contributing to this team or next year’s.  
 

Those young pitchers are our gold storage so we don’t become the cubs.

Sox really don't need to have urgency. These next four with the Astros are big of course. After that, the Sox schedule leading up the ASB is 18 games against awful teams (current winning percentage rank in parenthesis).

2 @ PIT (28th)

3 vs. SEA (18th)

4 vs. MIN (26th)

3 @ DET (23rd)

3 @ MIN (26th)

3 @ BAL (29th)

Meanwhile Cleveland's July is

4 vs. Houston

3 @ Tampa

4 vs. KC

3 @ Oakland

3 @ Houston

4 vs. Tampa

2 vs. STL

Then they come to Chicago last weekend of July. 

If the Sox handle their business, they should be several games up on Cleveland going into the All Star Break. The Indians will have their ace, #3 starter, catcher on the shelf. Their #5 starter has already been a disaster before Pleasac/Bieber injuries. JMO, but I get the feeling these substance bans are going to have a particular effect on Cleveland. Cleveland has the lowest payroll in baseball. They have Jose Ramirez under control for 2 years after this year through team options. They also have Eddie Rosario, Bryan Shaw, Cesar Hernandez and Roberto Perez as either free agents or guys under control in 2022 only if CLE flexes the club option. If you know anything about the Indians owner, you know that he wouldn't hate it if the Sox tore through their schedule and the Indians got swept the through the first week of July. He can then cash in on Ramirez for a significant package and sell off their other expiring contracts and potentially getting something for them instead of letting their value expire with an ~85-86 win team with very limited upside. 

Sox should be able to walk through the next 5 weeks and find themselves in a better position than they are today. The type of players that Sox are going to acquire are still going to be available in the July 20's and up to the deadline. Sox best move right now is 100% to hang tight and see where they are at. See what Mendick can do. Call up Fry. See if Burr/Ruiz can continue to get guys out. See if Heuer/Foster have their bad luck turn around. See how Eloy/Robert recover. See if any other key players get hurt. Sox are sitting pretty right now. Urgency would be a bad thing. 

Edited June 17, 20214 yr by raBBit

55 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Now that would be a big time move LOL. .Bye bye Crochet

Look how little teams gave up for big name rentals like Machado or Hanley, Story probably wouldn’t cost Crochet.

Edited June 17, 20214 yr by GermanSoxFan