52 minutes ago, hankchifan said:

With Brantley offensive firepower, he can afford to be average in the outfield.  Not so much now with Vaughn.

Exactly And plenty of people here had reservations in the off season adding Brantley because of his age catching up to him in the OF .Vaughn is 23.

2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Yes excuse me I said Baseball Prospectus and believe it or not I looked at that Total Zone stat you used on Baseball Reference  and saw the stat you used and spent quite a bit of time looking at it.

Basically I saw you used one column of a whole range of the Total Zone stats, 21 different defensive stats columns.17 of those columns had either a negative, 0 or no data at all  for Vaughn. This indicates he has not yet compiled the necessary stats to properly grade him or you ignored the others and just used the highest number you could find in the positive which was that 12 under the column Rtot/yr.

Rtot/yr defined is: Total Zone  The number of runs above or below average the fielder was worth per 1200 innings. This number combines the Rtz, Rdp, Rof, Rcatch into a total defensive contribution , In 3 of those 4 categories there were 2 with no data at all and 1 was a 0. Vaughn has 411 innings of total in his career yet the stat clearly states it needs 1200 inning to truly calculate these things yet it gave him a 12 anyway which you used.

When I look under that same column and look at Vaughn's 2 game sample in RF I see 103. When I look up Dwight Evans Career in RF who is usually considered a great RF I see 77. Would you then think Vaughn is a better RF then Dwight Evans ? This is the danger in using small sample sizes against a larger sample size.

 

What I used, is each player's career annualized totals, for each distinct position. This allows to compare players over mulitple years like Hamilton, to players like Goodwin with about a year at each of the two positions, and Vaughn annualized, so that his less than half year can be compared on equal footing. Each is over an entire career, the longest available time span, which is what you were getting at when discussing "small sample sizes". It's why I didn't throw Jake Lamb into the discussion (played less than a dozen games at any position, not used currently or expected ever to be a regular at either LF or RF).

Since there is no indication Vaughn will no longer continue to play LF as long as he is here and Eloy is out, it's safe to assume he will continue to play. The Sox have been coy as to whether Eloy will ever attempt to pretend to field again (this year, next year, or ever). 

Edited June 25, 20214 yr by South Side Hit Men

8 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Exactly And plenty of people here had reservations in the off season adding Brantley because of his age catching up to him in the OF .Vaughn is 23.

Say it again.

You play Andrew Vaughn as often as possible because he is 23, and still learning the game of baseball.  He is going to be one of your best hitters if you don't stunt his growth by turning him into a weak side platoon hitter prematurely.

5 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Say it again.

You play Andrew Vaughn as often as possible because he is 23, and still learning the game of baseball.  He is going to be one of your best hitters if you don't stunt his growth by turning him into a weak side platoon hitter prematurely.

Vaughn is 23 does that help ? And once again I never said to turn him into a weak side platoon player .Saying this for the 3rd time has not helped your edification at all !

13 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

What I used, is each player's career annualized totals, for each distinct position. This allows to compare players over mulitple years like Hamilton, to players like Goodwin with about a year at each of the two positions, and Vaughn annualized, so that his less than half year can be compared on equal footing. Each is over an entire career, the longest available time span, which is what you were getting at when discussing "small sample sizes". It's why I didn't throw Jake Lamb into the discussion (played less than a dozen games at any position, not used currently or expected ever to be a regular at either LF or RF).

Since there is no indication Vaughn will no longer continue to play LF as long as he is here and Eloy is out, it's safe to assume he will continue to play. The Sox have been coy as to whether Eloy will ever attempt to pretend to field again (this year, next year, or ever). 

Unfortunately there is no way to use Vaughn's small sample size of less than a year where he has no errors and not nearly enough chances to prove his true worth as a LF and extrapolated it to use against others career stats who also have limited exposure to LF on a year to year basis.

If for instance in the coming years as a part timer in LF (assuming he plays 1st base the majority of his career) you might get small sample sizes like you did with Leury and Goodwin in LF  that range in the negative just like with those guys . You might get a -50 one year, a -10, a 0, or a +25. You use SSS sizes  on a year to year basis for all those guys in LF to make a definitive statement that Vaughn is the 2nd best LF remaining on the roster. If he kicks one groundball or has 1 pop up hit him in the head like Robert did , in a part time role it hits his stats like a body tied to a big rock thrown into the ocean

Edited June 25, 20214 yr by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

The great mystery in regards to injuries this year is how the start/stop/start nature of last year and a major departure from normal training and games last year would affect this year. Its possible that, yes, there are issues with the training staff, and they are paid to deal with this; however, the large number of injuries throughout the league makes me wonder if a lot of this will abate next year because of the freak nature of last year, or maybe however training was adjusted during the pandemic might be to blame. The White Sox have typically been among the league's best when it comes to injuries, so I've given them some benefit of the doubt so far.

3 hours ago, Heads22 said:

The great mystery in regards to injuries this year is how the start/stop/start nature of last year and a major departure from normal training and games last year would affect this year. Its possible that, yes, there are issues with the training staff, and they are paid to deal with this; however, the large number of injuries throughout the league makes me wonder if a lot of this will abate next year because of the freak nature of last year, or maybe however training was adjusted during the pandemic might be to blame. The White Sox have typically been among the league's best when it comes to injuries, so I've given them some benefit of the doubt so far.

Well, it's possible we see another owner lockout and significant number of games lost in 2022, so it could be deja vu all over again. This will continue to suppress salaries based on reduced playing time performance, an added incentive for the owners to impose another significant lockout.

I don't get the blaming of Sox personnel, this is a leaguewide phenomenon. Herb Schneider is still around as an emeritus, I doubt there were any significant changes in how the club operates, as all three working trainers have been with the organization for decades.

On 6/22/2021 at 11:36 AM, fathom said:

Someone fire the medical staff 

Agreed! The medical staff as well as the trainers, strength and flexibility coaches.

 

Good news.  Getting the band back together.

 

7 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

 

Wow that’s tremendous news.

23 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

 

Will be a really interesting roster decision coming up.  Goodwin or Sheets out?  Maybe a DL trip for Leury?

7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Will be a really interesting roster decision coming up.  Goodwin or Sheets out?  Maybe a DL trip for Leury?

burger or mendick

On 7/2/2021 at 4:44 PM, DirtySox said:

 

I must have missed the explanation. Did they ever go into details about this "bizarre" injury?

10 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Will be a really interesting roster decision coming up.  Goodwin or Sheets out?  Maybe a DL trip for Leury?

Would they dump Lamb to keep Burger and Sheets around?  Goodwin seems like the easiest guys to slip through waivers to keep him in the org. 

I think Burger goes when Engel returns and Sheets goes when Lamb returns, but I wouldn't mind keeping Sheets up and DFA Lamb.

Goodwin probably sticks around until Robert is back.

16 minutes ago, kleedawg said:

burger or mendick

Mendick pretty much has to stay, otherwise you have no MI depth.

12 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Would they dump Lamb to keep Burger and Sheets around?  Goodwin seems like the easiest guys to slip through waivers to keep him in the org. 

Lamb is already DLd

Why wasn't Goodwin playing deeper? I can't wait until Engel is back.

16 minutes ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

I think Burger goes when Engel returns and Sheets goes when Lamb returns, but I wouldn't mind keeping Sheets up and DFA Lamb.

Goodwin probably sticks around until Robert is back.

I feel like Sheets has already showed he has more potential, we need a LH big bat at the DH spot IMO and until Sheets shows otherwise it should be him IMO

1 minute ago, BigHurt3515 said:

I feel like Sheets has already showed he has more potential, we need a LH big bat at the DH spot IMO and until Sheets shows otherwise it should be him IMO

I don't disagree, but there's no reason to have both Sheets and Lamb. One of them has to go when Lamb's IL time is up.

Is he fully healthy, or only enough to play 2 or 3 games a week max like last time before he got hurt yet again?

 

 

22 hours ago, WhiteSoxFan1993 said:

I don't disagree, but there's no reason to have both Sheets and Lamb. One of them has to go when Lamb's IL time is up.

Lamb can play 3rd base at least. Meanwhile, the Sox have Eaton, Goodwin, Vaughn, Engel, Hamilton and Sheets as OFers. I'd prefer Goodwin or Eaton gone tbh.