June 25, 20214 yr Time to shuffle the deck a bit. Bring up Beckham, Sheets, and Burger. Send down Mercedes, cut Gonzalez, option Mendick?
June 25, 20214 yr 37 minutes ago, manbearpuig said: Time to shuffle the deck a bit. Bring up Beckham, Sheets, and Burger. Send down Mercedes, cut Gonzalez, option Mendick? I’d keep Gonzalez on the 40 man roster over Rutherford, but otherwise I’d be down for all this.
June 25, 20214 yr On 6/22/2021 at 2:35 PM, ChiSox59 said: The White Sox are not in a position to punt Vaughn's development in order to give Jake Lamb, Brian Goodwin or Leury Garcia at bats. Those guys are all who they are - below average players who are lucky to have MLB jobs right now. Andrew Vaughn is a consensus top 15-20 prospect in the game who is widely considered to have the potential to be an elite MLB hitter. IS he right now? No. Will be be buy August 2021? Probably not. But we already know who Lamb, Goodwin and Garcia are and it isn't pretty. Vaughn has enormous upside, especially as a LF/RF. I also don't think playing any of those guys over Vaughn puts the Sox in a better position to win now. If Eloy, Engel and Luis were healthy - I'd have no problem sending AV to AAA to get a year of control back and let him get his swing hitting bombs in a bandbox. But we just simply don't have that luxury at this stage, and I am dumbfounded that some posters (frankly just a couple) can't wrap their head around that. There are no better options than Vaughn in LF right now. Yes I know there are plenty of Vaughn fanboys that no matter how he hits against RHP would still insist he play LF. Quite the impassioned plea for a guy with .230 OBP .238 Slg. and .468 OPS against RHP. How low would it have to go to say a guy with a .600 or .700 or.750 OPS who fields the position just as well if not better got more playing time in LF over him ?Just curious . How bad do you want him to play? All starts against LHP and all starts against RHP ? Never take him out of the lineup ? Never replace him defensively ? Never replace him for a pinch runner ? Oh well at least now I know some guys would rather lessen the Sox chances to win a World Series than to temporarily stall or give a break to a top prospects development. You act as if he won't be here next year.
June 25, 20214 yr Author 36 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Yes I know there are plenty of Vaughn fanboys that no matter how he hits against RHP would still insist he play LF. Quite the impassioned plea for a guy with .230 OBP .238 Slg. and .468 OPS against RHP. How low would it have to go to say a guy with a .600 or .700 or.750 OPS who fields the position just as well if not better got more playing time in LF over him ?Just curious . How bad do you want him to play? All starts against LHP and all starts against RHP ? Never take him out of the lineup ? Never replace him defensively ? Never replace him for a pinch runner ? Oh well at least now I know some guys would rather lessen the Sox chances to win a World Series than to temporarily stall or give a break to a top prospects development. You act as if he won't be here next year. Giving him at bats to see if he can improve possibly helps their chances to win a World Series. Edited June 25, 20214 yr by manbearpuig
June 25, 20214 yr 11 hours ago, Jerksticks said: Not gonna disagree. The fun ends after the taek. But I still think Schwarber is a horrible horrible baseball player. He put up like 5WAR over his first 6 years. Let’s not pretend he is actually a good player. Don't let facts and numbers get in the way of your inaccurate feelings! God forbid!
June 25, 20214 yr Can Burger actually play 2nd? I read he is playing it but how is he doing? If he is half-way decent bring him and try him. Although I'd bring him up regardless. He cant be much worse than Yermin at this time. Worth a shot.
June 25, 20214 yr Author 1 minute ago, Capital G said: Can Burger actually play 2nd? I read he is playing it but how is he doing? If he is half-way decent bring him and try him. Although I'd bring him up regardless. He cant be much worse than Yermin at this time. Worth a shot. Go the Vaughn route and have him play 2nd for the first 6 innings and then bring in someone else. Or just DH him.
June 25, 20214 yr 7 minutes ago, manbearpuig said: Go the Vaughn route and have him play 2nd for the first 6 innings and then bring in someone else. Or just DH him. If the guy can hit at the MLB level, I think this is a good idea. 2B is a higher profile position, though. Lots of plays run through the middle infield. We, as fans, would have to be patient with him because he'd miss some plays and make some mistakes. But, again, if he hits, it'll be easier to forgive some defensive issues.
June 25, 20214 yr Author Just now, hogan873 said: If the guy can hit at the MLB level, I think this is a good idea. 2B is a higher profile position, though. Lots of plays run through the middle infield. We, as fans, would have to be patient with him because he'd miss some plays and make some mistakes. But, again, if he hits, it'll be easier to forgive some defensive issues. Personally, I'm good with him just DHing at this point.
June 25, 20214 yr 1 hour ago, manbearpuig said: Time to shuffle the deck a bit. Bring up Beckham, Sheets, and Burger. Send down Mercedes, cut Gonzalez, option Mendick? Completely agree (probably don't need to cut Gonzalez yet tho), but I doubt we see it today. Also, where TF is Kopech? We need to get him back.
June 25, 20214 yr 16 minutes ago, Capital G said: Can Burger actually play 2nd? I read he is playing it but how is he doing? If he is half-way decent bring him and try him. Although I'd bring him up regardless. He cant be much worse than Yermin at this time. Worth a shot. I saw a DP turn that, while successful, looked really rough.
June 25, 20214 yr 28 minutes ago, manbearpuig said: Giving him at bats to see if he can improve possibly helps their chances to win a World Series chances. Yes, this is the whole point. With Vaughn you have the realistic chance for dramatic improvement that will pay off as the season wears on. On the other hand, you know what you're getting with his current below-replacement-level replacements, and it ain't good.
June 25, 20214 yr Author 5 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said: Yes, this is the whole point. With Vaughn you have the realistic chance for dramatic improvement that will pay off as the season wears on. On the other hand, you know what you're getting with his current below-replacement-level replacements, and it ain't good. Right. And the alternative is playing guys like Billy Hamilton (when he is back) and Brian Goodwin who have had lackluster careers to this point anyway. Edited June 25, 20214 yr by manbearpuig
June 25, 20214 yr 37 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Yes I know there are plenty of Vaughn fanboys that no matter how he hits against RHP would still insist he play LF. Quite the impassioned plea for a guy with .230 OBP .238 Slg. and .468 OPS against RHP. How low would it have to go to say a guy with a .600 or .700 or.750 OPS who fields the position just as well if not better got more playing time in LF over him ?Just curious . How bad do you want him to play? All starts against LHP and all starts against RHP ? Never take him out of the lineup ? Never replace him defensively ? Never replace him for a pinch runner ? Oh well at least now I know some guys would rather lessen the Sox chances to win a World Series than to temporarily stall or give a break to a top prospects development. You act as if he won't be here next year. Well at least I know who the Brian Goodwin and Jake Lamb fanboys are who would rather win a couple of games in June versus developing their talent to win for the next decade.
June 25, 20214 yr 7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Well at least I know who the Brian Goodwin and Jake Lamb fanboys are who would rather win a couple of games in June versus developing their talent to win for the next decade. Not to mention he was patting himself on the back when he agreed Nick Williams was the better option. How did that work out? How is Vaughn supposed to improve vs RHP if he sits against them?
June 25, 20214 yr 18 minutes ago, bmags said: I saw a DP turn that, while successful, looked really rough. Yeah and it's not like Burger has ever looked good at 3B. He's just not much of an athlete and while he's a "ballplayer" he's just never going to be a graceful guy between the lines. That said, give him the starts at DH against LHP. Give him a start or two at 2B each week. The bar to clear Mercedes production is very low.
June 25, 20214 yr 50 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Yes I know there are plenty of Vaughn fanboys that no matter how he hits against RHP would still insist he play LF. Quite the impassioned plea for a guy with .230 OBP .238 Slg. and .468 OPS against RHP. Still on this, huh? No one is pleading for Vaughn to play LF over better options. If Eloy and Luis were healthy, I would have sent him to AAA over a month ago. But they're not, and you can add Eaton, Hamilton and Engel to the IL-victim list. The only thing anyone here is saying is that turning Vaughn into a weak-side platoon player for AAAA retreads like Brian Goodwin and Jake Lamb is asinine. Realistically, all can play against RHP based on how dinged up the Sox are, so I am not even sure what you're arguing for at this point.
June 25, 20214 yr 2 hours ago, manbearpuig said: Time to shuffle the deck a bit. Bring up Beckham, Sheets, and Burger. Send down Mercedes, cut Gonzalez, option Mendick? Amen to this. Please let this happen today. Just send all three to minors. Need a spark.
June 25, 20214 yr 41 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said: Yes, this is the whole point. With Vaughn you have the realistic chance for dramatic improvement that will pay off as the season wears on. On the other hand, you know what you're getting with his current below-replacement-level replacements, and it ain't good. Not really directed at you, but you make a good point about the replacement level bums in the roster. I dont see sending Vaughn down as stalling his development. I actually believe in his swing and his natural talent. But, I believe that he's overwhelmed right now, trying to move up 3 levels. I also believe that him (TEMPORARILY) moving to a more appropriate level can enable him to figure things out faster. IOW, sending him down could get him right in time for him to contribute this season; keeping him here to fail won't do him or the lineup any favors, IMO. Vaughn is hitting so poorly,that he would have to have a MASSIVE ~200% increase in wrc+ vs RHP to get to league average at a 100 wrc+. And yes, the below-replacement level bums suck. But RIGHT NOW, those bums vs RHP are simply better than what Vaughn can do RIGHT NOW. In a few weeks from now, if he were sent down? I'd bet that Vaughns talent would take over, and he'd outperform the below replacement level bums. So, once there's a cromulent player that can stand at LF, send Vaughn down to hit the reset button. And, I'd send Mercedes down now, and give Burger his shot. Edited June 25, 20214 yr by Two-Gun Pete
June 25, 20214 yr Jake Burger has a .741 OPS against right handed pitching in AAA. Once you adjust for major league pitching, is that really helping?
June 25, 20214 yr 54 minutes ago, bmags said: I saw a DP turn that, while successful, looked really rough. I would guess, that in a technical aspect, getting this footwork down would be the most difficult part of a transition from 3rd. Obviously range is a huge factor as well.
June 25, 20214 yr 23 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Yes I know there are plenty of Vaughn fanboys that no matter how he hits against RHP would still insist he play LF. Quite the impassioned plea for a guy with .230 OBP .238 Slg. and .468 OPS against RHP. How low would it have to go to say a guy with a .600 or .700 or.750 OPS who fields the position just as well if not better got more playing time in LF over him ?Just curious . How bad do you want him to play? All starts against LHP and all starts against RHP ? Never take him out of the lineup ? Never replace him defensively ? Never replace him for a pinch runner ? Oh well at least now I know some guys would rather lessen the Sox chances to win a World Series than to temporarily stall or give a break to a top prospects development. You act as if he won't be here next year. Some of us don’t consider this an “all in year” and value the 2022 & 2023 seasons near equally. As such, punting Vaughn’s development this early into the season is a very short-sighted move and will only delay these growing pains into next year. For now just stick with him on a near everyday basis and if he’s still struggling against RHP once we’re fully healthy then make a change. But playing proven garbage hitters like Leury & Hamilton over him is just plain stupid IMO.
June 25, 20214 yr I would like to see Burger get a shot as a DH and part time 3B behind Yoan. That might give Yoan some time to heal. At least Burger is a power bat who can hit the ball out of the park......we are severely lacking in power. Yermin's course may have run out Mendick is what he is....a good utility backup player.... Leury is what Danny is..... Jake Lamb is a good guy to have off the bench to pinch hit if needed....
June 25, 20214 yr 5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Some of us don’t consider this an “all in year” and value the 2022 & 2023 seasons near equally. As such, punting Vaughn’s development this early into the season is a very short-sighted move and will only delay these growing pains into next year. For now just stick with him on a near everyday basis and if he’s still struggling against RHP once we’re fully healthy then make a change. But playing proven garbage hitters like Leury & Hamilton over him is just plain stupid IMO. Also we did exactly this last year. We played the guy we viewed with a superior ceiling as much as we could until the end to try to get him to turn around in Nomar Mazara, when it became time to win, we benched him. I do agree you could scale back more if you had guys like Eloy and Robert around, but for Brian Goodwin and Jake Lamb? For Luis Gonzalez? Eh.
June 25, 20214 yr 8 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Also we did exactly this last year. We played the guy we viewed with a superior ceiling as much as we could until the end to try to get him to turn around in Nomar Mazara, when it became time to win, we benched him. I do agree you could scale back more if you had guys like Eloy and Robert around, but for Brian Goodwin and Jake Lamb? For Luis Gonzalez? Eh. Exactly. Getting an 80 wRC+ out over Leury isn’t moving the needle, but getting Vaughn to be league average against RHP come the stretch run could be incredibly valuable. Given how bad this division is, we can afford to take our time with Vaughn, especially if we’re willing to make other changes.
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