July 9, 20214 yr Just now, Balta1701 said: Dylan Cease's K/9 IP in games prior to the Houston Series/prior to the sticky ban: 11.475 Dylan Cease's K/9 IP in his last 4 games: 11.5082. CeAsE sUcKs
July 9, 20214 yr Just now, Jack Parkman said: Felipe Paulino supposedly had a great arm. Hitters saw him well and lit him up. That's a non sequitur which has zero impact on what I just said. Same with Rey Lopez or any other immaterial thing you want to drag in here.
July 9, 20214 yr 4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: There is a chasm of space between 4 years of even a back end starter and Joc Peterson, let alone one with the potential and arm of Dylan Cease. I don't disagree, I'm arguing that thinking that Cease might suck is valid. I hate to say I told you guys so about Lopez, but I remember having the same arguments about him. "BUT HIS STUFF!!!" you guys said. I don't even necessarily think he sucks. It's more of a wait and see. But I don't blame anyone for looking at the peripherals and dismissing March-June 2021 as substance aided. Edited July 9, 20214 yr by Jack Parkman
July 9, 20214 yr 7 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: What if you think that was substance related and the guy from 2019-20 is the real Cease? Why do I think a consensus top 30 prospect is a finished product as a rookie? He also focused on mechanical changes this offseason to remove some of the cut on his 4 seamer. His whiff rate is up ~25% on his fastball despite little to know change in his spin rate. I honestly think you have no idea what you are talking about at this point.
July 9, 20214 yr Just now, Jack Parkman said: I don't disagree, I'm arguing that thinking that Cease might suck is valid. I hate to say I told you guys so about Lopez, but I remember having the same arguments about him. "BUT HIS STUFF!!!" you guys said. How Reynaldo ended up today is immaterial and a distraction. The only relationship would be his trade value after his first or second season. In fact even after all of his failures a guy like Reynaldo IS the type of return that the Cubs can hope for from Peterson.
July 9, 20214 yr 8 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: We'll see. Are you a Sox fan or just a pessimist? I honestly can’t tell anymore what you want to happen.
July 9, 20214 yr Just now, Chicago White Sox said: Why do I think a consensus top 30 prospect is a finished product as a rookie? He also focused on mechanical changes this offseason to remove some of the cut on his 4 seamer. His whiff rate is up ~25% on his fastball despite little to know change in his spin rate. I honestly think you have no idea what you are talking about at this point. No, I'm saying that anything other than wait and see is not prudent.
July 9, 20214 yr 4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Dylan Cease's K/9 IP in games prior to the Houston Series/prior to the sticky ban: 11.475 Dylan Cease's K/9 IP in his last 4 games: 11.5082. Murder ?
July 9, 20214 yr 3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: How Reynaldo ended up today is immaterial and a distraction. The only relationship would be his trade value after his first or second season. In fact even after all of his failures a guy like Reynaldo IS the type of return that the Cubs can hope for from Peterson. My point is that Cease and Lopez had similar peripherals up until this year, and we don't know how to view Cease's 1st half because of substances. Thinking that Cease sucks is not a ridiculous thought. I'm not sold, I have to see more. Edited July 9, 20214 yr by Jack Parkman
July 9, 20214 yr 9 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: I don't disagree, I'm arguing that thinking that Cease might suck is valid. I hate to say I told you guys so about Lopez, but I remember having the same arguments about him. "BUT HIS STUFF!!!" you guys said. I don't even necessarily think he sucks. It's more of a wait and see. But I don't blame anyone for looking at the peripherals and dismissing March-June 2021 as substance aided. Talk about the blind squirrel. You will post takes on both sides of the argument, sometimes in the same day, get called out for it, edit your posts then walk it back. You’re bound to “hit” on something with your carpet bombing. Then you’re going to drop a “Hate to say I told you guys, but…” ???
July 9, 20214 yr 17 minutes ago, Tony said: Talk about the blind squirrel. You will post takes on both sides of the argument, sometimes in the same day, get called out for it, edit your posts then walk it back. You’re bound to “hit” on something with your carpet bombing. Then you’re going to drop a “Hate to say I told you guys, but…” ??? Maybe you should quit being a prick just because we disagree about the Hawks and Dylan Cease. People made valid arguments against. I presented my case, others presented theirs. The jury is still out. We'll see who was right. I never thought that Lopez was good, however. I was starting to come around on Cease. Now I still have to wait and see. I clarified because people thought that I actually think that Cease sucks. It was more of "I see where he's coming from" Edited July 9, 20214 yr by Jack Parkman
July 9, 20214 yr 14 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: No, I'm saying that anything other than wait and see is not prudent.
July 9, 20214 yr 19 minutes ago, bmags said: Another thread hi-jack’ed Lol, that's good. I haven't seen thread hijacking this strong since greg in his prime.
July 9, 20214 yr 24 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Pederson sucks too, I think it's ridiculous just because of the control but I don't think Cease anywhere close to as much value as you guys do. My point being that if both are mediocre and Pederson is only a rental, Cease is worth more than him based on team control alone. Pederson is definitely not worth Cease+ from the original comment.
July 9, 20214 yr 15 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: My point is that Cease and Lopez had similar peripherals up until this year, and we don't know how to view Cease's 1st half because of substances. Thinking that Cease sucks is not a ridiculous thought. I'm not sold, I have to see more. That still doesn't make the trade price for Dylan Cease, Joc Peterson.
July 9, 20214 yr Luckily the Sox wont be entertaining the idea of trading Dylan Cease. They'd rather let him become what he becomes, like ReyLo.
July 9, 20214 yr Just now, South Sider said: Luckily the Sox wont be entertaining the idea of trading Dylan Cease. They'd rather let him become what he becomes, like ReyLo. Or Giolito...
July 9, 20214 yr 2 minutes ago, ptatc said: My point being that if both are mediocre and Pederson is only a rental, Cease is worth more than him based on team control alone. Pederson is definitely not worth Cease+ from the original comment. That's fine. I was listening to the score when they said that, and the first thing that popped into my mind wasn't "this is ridiculous" it was "they really think Cease's success this year was a product of sticky stuff. They think he sucks" Though this is still ridiculous popped into my mind after that. Edited July 9, 20214 yr by Jack Parkman
July 9, 20214 yr 2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: That still doesn't make the trade price for Dylan Cease, Joc Peterson. No it doesn't. This was never about Joc Pederson being worth Cease. This discussion was about Cease being not as valuable as Sox fans would like to think.
July 9, 20214 yr 8 minutes ago, South Sider said: Luckily the Sox wont be entertaining the idea of trading Dylan Cease. They'd rather let him become what he becomes, like ReyLo. And that's the right move, because if you trade a guy before he figures it out with stuff like that you will regret it. BTW, just because I said it was a valid thought, doesn't mean I agree with it. I just understand where they're coming from. I think the same thing about Crochet. Let him become what he's going to become, because those arms don't grow on trees. Edited July 9, 20214 yr by Jack Parkman
July 9, 20214 yr 8 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: No it doesn't. This was never about Joc Pederson being worth Cease. This discussion was about Cease being not as valuable as Sox fans would like to think. I think that was the point as the poster said that the suggestion was to acquire Pederson the Sox would need to give up Cease+. this was what started the conversion/debate/arguement.
July 9, 20214 yr 9 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: No it doesn't. This was never about Joc Pederson being worth Cease. This discussion was about Cease being not as valuable as Sox fans would like to think. You literally used the term minimal trade value in your edit.
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