Just now, SoCalChiSox said:

There are many possible inferences for their lack of activity. 

You've listed one of them. Another is they totally misread the market. 

A third is they are content to play in the shallow end of the pool. 

I'm guessing some combo of 2/3 are more likely than the first.

Or most likely, Conforto is our primary target for RF and they are working to wrap him up before the day is over.  2B and backup catcher would then be addressed by a Kimbrel trade (i.e. Segura & Marchan).  Finally, SP would wait until after the CBA is resolved and would likely happen via trade with the A’s or Reds or a cheaper free agent.

Not the sexiest offseason, but it would cover all of our holes.  And yes, I’d rather us shoot for the moon in free agency than trade our few precious assets for pitching, but if Hahn is unable to move Keuchel and/or the budget it less than anticipated then perhaps we don’t have the financial flexibility to do so.

11 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I am just going to say this outloud.  The Sox lack of activity so far tells me that they have a heavy belief that the deals will be better after the CBA gets done and this is why they have the lack of urgency to get it done.

I'm hopeful for this scenario, felt they rushed into poor signings to jump the market the past two seasons, when better (and less expensive) alternatives were available if they showed patience.  Time will tell if their budget is limited to whatever salary relief they can salvage out of Kimbrel. or they have $30M-$40M to spend including his salary.

If they can pick up a decent catcher (Stallings, Gomes), second baseman (Iglesias/Villar/Harrison), right fielder (Pederson/Soler) and starter (Matz was the one regret in terms of misses so far - Richards, Martin Perez and Tyler Anderson have some upside) and bringing in a hybrid like McHugh and one more reliever would put the team in decent position entering the year. Detroit will improve, but the focus is having guys firing in October.

2 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

I'm hopeful for this scenario, felt they rushed into poor signings to jump the market the past two seasons, when better (and less expensive) alternatives were available if they showed patience.  Time will tell if their budget is limited to whatever salary relief they can salvage out of Kimbrel. or they have $30M-$40M to spend including his salary.

If they can pick up a decent catcher (Stallings, Gomes), second baseman (Iglesias/Villar/Harrison), right fielder (Pederson/Soler) and starter (Matz was the one regret in terms of misses so far - Richards, Martin Perez and Tyler Anderson have some upside) and bringing in a hybrid like McHugh and one more reliever would put the team in decent position entering the year. Detroit will improve, but the focus is having guys firing in October.

That would be an absolutely horrible offseason.

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

That would be an absolutely horrible offseason.

No kidding. If the Sox are depending on the likes of Martin Perez in October, just shoot me.

Reinsdorf couldn't bring himself to pay the 2mil buyout for Kimbrel, so they decided to keep him. Sign Graveman. Offseason over. 

One extreme is:

Sign Graveman and keep Kimbrel. Off-season over.

Another is:

Sign Scherzer, Semien, Graveman, and Castillanos.

Our reality will end up being in-between.

4 minutes ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

No kidding. If the Sox are depending on the likes of Martin Perez in October, just shoot me.

The alternative and most likely course from this team is LESS than what I laid out, not more.

Stick with the SP and C they have, Sheets and Vaughn have RF, Eloy for as long as he lasts stays in LF. Scrub 2B, perhaps one more lower cost RP.

Then you have the team also declining to improve for free, employing defensive shifts like the best teams, but passing because 78 year old manager doesn't likey.

32 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

There are many possible inferences for their lack of activity. 

You've listed one of them. Another is they totally misread the market. 

A third is they are content to play in the shallow end of the pool. 

I'm guessing some combo of 2/3 are more likely than the first.

I do find it very likely that sox FO were surprised by what a FA market looks like with 15 teams competing vs 3-4 like they've been in the last few.

17 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

That would be an absolutely horrible offseason.

my favorite part is that's a $190M roster.

14 minutes ago, ron883 said:

Reinsdorf couldn't bring himself to pay the 2mil buyout for Kimbrel, so they decided to keep him. Sign Graveman. Offseason over. 

Thought it was just $1 million.

In any case, avoiding that to spend $14.5 million on Segura…who’s a decent enough vet but who’s going to cost an extra $14 million (compared to Madrigal) that could have gone to a really exciting/transformational player for this franchise?  Not exactly priceless, as the credit card commercials would have one believe.

8 minutes ago, bmags said:

my favorite part is that's a $190M roster.

And it would even somehow manage to discourage season ticket buyers in the process…it’s actually pretty telling that the increases in gas and food/grocery prices in recent months is right in line with the Scherzer increase over highest AAV.  Around 15-20%.

But who would have thought Fed easy money policy, Cohen overspending and inflation would be the Sox downfall, vis a vis the convenient villain which is JR’s anti-union advocacy?

Edited November 29, 20214 yr by caulfield12

Feels like a very White Sox thing to do, to turn Nick Madrigal and his 5+ years of control at minimum salary, into Jean Segura, 14.25 million salary and 1 year, whilst getting a terrible half a season from a closer they didn't need.

9 minutes ago, Capn12 said:

Feels like a very White Sox thing to do, to turn Nick Madrigal and his 5+ years of control at minimum salary, into Jean Segura, 14.25 million salary and 1 year, whilst getting a terrible half a season from a closer they didn't need.

You forgot losing Heuer as well, which might require another $7-8ish million on a Tepera/Neris or similar signing.

Basically $20-22 million in completely unnecessary additional spending…which could have gone to a Gausman, Conforto, Story, Taylor or whatever high quality player that actually would have moved our WS odds up appreciably.

”But we spent the money!l!”

But, as usual, it wasn’t allocated wisely or efficiently.

See RF/DH for a decade, as well as Friends & Family Spending.

Edited November 29, 20214 yr by caulfield12

29 minutes ago, ron883 said:

Reinsdorf couldn't bring himself to pay the 2mil buyout for Kimbrel, so they decided to keep him. Sign Graveman. Offseason over. 

You forgot Pederson for RF and then one of Hernandez, Iglesias, Galvis (whoever signs last) for 2B.

Edited November 29, 20214 yr by Bob Sacamano

@wsd hearing anything today?

3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

You forgot losing Heuer as well, which might require another $7-8ish million on a Tepera/Neris or similar signing.

Basically $20-22 million in completely unnecessary additional spending…which could have gone to a Gausman, Conforto, Story, Taylor or whatever high quality player that actually would have moved our WS odds up appreciably.

”But we spent the money!l!”

But, as usual, it wasn’t allocated wisely or efficiently.

See RF/DH for a decade, as well as Friends & Family Spending.

Yeah, even worse, once you factor Heuer in. What a debacle.

3 minutes ago, hi8is said:

@wsd hearing anything today?

I already tried this with @Harold's Leg Lift and @Y2Jimmy0 earlier and failed.

Edited November 29, 20214 yr by Bob Sacamano

20 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

The alternative and most likely course from this team is LESS than what I laid out, not more.

Stick with the SP and C they have, Sheets and Vaughn have RF, Eloy for as long as he lasts stays in LF. Scrub 2B, perhaps one more lower cost RP.

Then you have the team also declining to improve for free, employing defensive shifts like the best teams, but passing because 78 year old manager doesn't likey.

The alternative is putting your big boy pants and signing a big-time FA to supplement the core we sat through numerous losing seasons to build. Sox need GOOD complementary players, not more Adam Eatons of the world that have a 50/50 chance of being released.

4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

You forgot losing Heuer as well, which might require another $7-8ish million on a Tepera/Neris or similar signing.

Basically $20-22 million in completely unnecessary additional spending…which could have gone to a Gausman, Conforto, Story, Taylor or whatever high quality player that actually would have moved our WS odds up appreciably.

”But we spent the money!l!”

But, as usual, it wasn’t allocated wisely or efficiently.

See RF/DH for a decade, as well as Friends & Family Spending.

Well, they do have enough cash to give Hahn another extension. It would seem most of the board would support that move.

Makes so much more sense to trade Kimbrel for McNeil, as I’m sure Mets don’t want to let Edwin Diaz close out games going forward.  Get McNeil, sign Castellanos or Conforto and wait until lockout is over 

1 minute ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

The alternative is putting your big boy pants and signing a big-time FA to supplement the core we sat through numerous losing seasons to build. Sox need GOOD complementary players, not more Adam Eatons of the world that have a 50/50 chance of being released.

Yes, but an alternative not palatable to the owner now, is it? Jerry's priority is not the "multi-championships" Hahn has been blathering about for the past decade with absolute ZERO playoff success. Jerry's priority is to wave carrots and maximize profits.

There is no change with the Sox or Bears until there is a change at the top.

3 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

I already tried this with @Harold's Leg Lift and @Y2Jimmy0 earlier and failed.

My best guess is that we’re at a stand still with Conforto / Boras… they’re asking for a multi year pact and we’re stuck in the sand offering a pillow contract. What the hold up is with Kimbrel… no clue but my guess is that it’s something related to medicals. 

Or everything we’ve heard so far is 7:26pm bullshit.

1 minute ago, fathom said:

Makes so much more sense to trade Kimbrel for McNeil, as I’m sure Mets don’t want to let Edwin Diaz close out games going forward.  Get McNeil, sign Castellanos or Conforto and wait until lockout is over 

I highly doubt NYM will accept Kimbrel for McNeil straight up but that would be super awesome. 

 

3 minutes ago, fathom said:

Makes so much more sense to trade Kimbrel for McNeil, as I’m sure Mets don’t want to let Edwin Diaz close out games going forward.  Get McNeil, sign Castellanos or Conforto and wait until lockout is over 

this would be a huge win. But is mcneil expendable yet? EE -> 3rd right?

2 minutes ago, hi8is said:

My best guess is that we’re at a stand still with Conforto / Boras… they’re asking for a multi year pact and we’re stuck in the sand offering a pillow contract. What the hold up is with Kimbrel… no clue but my guess is that it’s something related to medicals. 

Or everything we’ve heard so far is 7:26pm bullshit.

I doubt the sox are offering conforto a pillow deal.  I could see them offer 4/$65M though, and Boras pushing for 5/$100M.