January 25, 20224 yr 28 minutes ago, Quin said: I'd vote A-Rod in over Ortiz. 100%. Bonds and Clemens too. If we are going to let in cheaters, let the best ones in. I would prefer none of them.
January 25, 20224 yr 19 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: 100%. Bonds and Clemens too. If we are going to let in cheaters, let the best ones in. I would prefer none of them. This is why the Basketball Hall of Fame is the best. Edit: To clarify, not because "all cheaters are in" or anything, but because it's pretty much a "was this dude significant for a long period of time to the game? Yes? In." Scenario.
January 25, 20224 yr 22 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: 100%. Bonds and Clemens too. If we are going to let in cheaters, let the best ones in. I would prefer none of them. If Bonds and Clemens were big enough men to admit what they did. Then say it was wrong and apologize like they meant it, they would get in. Arod too. Those guys were truly great players before the juice. I imagine it was tough for Bonds watching Sosa and Maguire cheat their way to greatness. Ortiz, Palmiero and those 2 others could apologize forever and would never deserve to get in.
January 25, 20224 yr Ortiz got in, first ballot no less, but all the other steroid cheats are shut out. Why is he different? EDIT: Buehrle down below 6%. Next year might be his last. Edited January 25, 20224 yr by CentralChamps21
January 25, 20224 yr 49 minutes ago, Quin said: This is why the Basketball Hall of Fame is the best. Edit: To clarify, not because "all cheaters are in" or anything, but because it's pretty much a "was this dude significant for a long period of time to the game? Yes? In." Scenario. Basketball is the absolute worst.. Everybody gets in. It should be extremely difficult to get in (like the MLB).
January 25, 20224 yr 6 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said: Ortiz got in, first ballot no less, but all the other steroid cheats are shut out. Why is he different? EDIT: Buehrle down below 6%. Next year might be his last. He played for the Red Sox and seems to be a great guy. By all accounts Bonds, Clemmens, ARod, & Sammy Sosa are not. Good luck drawing a distinction between Sosa & Ortiz on PEDs, because you can't.
January 25, 20224 yr David was a lesser offender and is a good citizen. Bonds is arrogant. This is not foolproof.
January 25, 20224 yr 17 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said: Ortiz got in, first ballot no less, but all the other steroid cheats are shut out. Why is he different? EDIT: Buehrle down below 6%. Next year might be his last. Don't understand how he could fall that much? The only good thing is that next year has a much lighter ballot.
January 25, 20224 yr Just now, Colome's Hat said: Don't understand how he could fall that much? The only good thing is that next year has a much lighter ballot. I wonder if so many overqualified players (from a production standpoint) being on the ballot really worked against him this year. These types of voters aren't the majority, but it seemed like a lot of younger/more progressive voters said they would have liked to vote for more than 10. I think he's someone who will benefit with so many deserving players falling off the list this year.
January 25, 20224 yr 1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said: 100%. Bonds and Clemens too. If we are going to let in cheaters, let the best ones in. I would prefer none of them. This makes no sense - Ortiz was the least good of the roids users that didn't get in. I don't get why you don't put Bonds/Clemens/Arod (if he doens't) in but you do put Ortiz in. Makes zero sense - the other 3 were way more elite (and those elite numbers held up when a big portion of the league was doing the same thing they were).
January 25, 20224 yr 56 minutes ago, zisk said: If Bonds and Clemens were big enough men to admit what they did. Then say it was wrong and apologize like they meant it, they would get in. Arod too. Those guys were truly great players before the juice. I imagine it was tough for Bonds watching Sosa and Maguire cheat their way to greatness. Ortiz, Palmiero and those 2 others could apologize forever and would never deserve to get in. When did Ortiz ever man up?
January 25, 20224 yr 1 hour ago, Quin said: This is why the Basketball Hall of Fame is the best. Edit: To clarify, not because "all cheaters are in" or anything, but because it's pretty much a "was this dude significant for a long period of time to the game? Yes? In." Scenario. I would disagree in sense that I think baseball is hardest to get in. It really is the hall of fame and not the hall of good or great. There are exceptions though and some of the recent exclusions is just crazy (Bonds/Clemens in particular - those are pinnacle guys across multiple era's/generation(s). I get a Schilling who is on the border - he was very good / dare I say great, but maybe not an HOF(er) and when you bring in other stuff fine, don't put him in (even that is debatable cause his stuff doesn't involve criminal issues rather social viewpoints (I don't agree with em but i do think social views differ from criminal stuff - ala Alomar).
January 25, 20224 yr Just now, Chisoxfn said: This makes no sense - Ortiz was the least good of the roids users that didn't get in. I don't get why you don't put Bonds/Clemens/Arod (if he doens't) in but you do put Ortiz in. Makes zero sense - the other 3 were way more elite (and those elite numbers held up when a big portion of the league was doing the same thing they were). Completely agree. Almost every player from that era was seemingly on steroids. Penalizing guys like Bonds or Clemens because they were so much better than everyone else makes 0 logical sense to me. Either PED guys are in or they aren't and the ship on whether they are or not has already sailed.
January 25, 20224 yr 1 hour ago, zisk said: If Bonds and Clemens were big enough men to admit what they did. Then say it was wrong and apologize like they meant it, they would get in. Arod too. Those guys were truly great players before the juice. I imagine it was tough for Bonds watching Sosa and Maguire cheat their way to greatness. Ortiz, Palmiero and those 2 others could apologize forever and would never deserve to get in. i always ask...how do you know for certain when they started? Could Clemens have grabbed the "leaded" coffee in 1987? Could Bonds have done some cycles of Winstrol in the early 90s or even the mid 80s - that's the one Palmeiro was on that didn't make his body explode. McGwire was on stuff when he came up and he wasn't nearly the size he grew to in the 90s. We know of 2 anecdotes - the Mitchell Report said Clemens started in Torotno, and a book that came out in '06 or so said that Bonds told Griffey he was going to "go on the hard stuff" while having a dinner with him after the 1998 season, but Griffey denied that took place. Even if it did, maybe "Go on the hard stuff" meant he was doing softer stuff beforehand? How does a guy with no steroid experience know to go find BALCO? Just something everyone knew? Or he was already working with a trainer who was an expert in who to contact to find the hard stuff? Hmm...
January 25, 20224 yr 1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said: When did Ortiz ever man up? https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/david-ortiz-says-his-failed-ped-test-leaked-because-too-many-yankees-tested-positive/ I do like that this article from 2017 includes this quote: Quote Back in 2009, Ortiz said he would look into his failed test to determine what happened, but he's yet to provide a follow-up.
January 25, 20224 yr 35 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said: Ortiz got in, first ballot no less, but all the other steroid cheats are shut out. Why is he different? EDIT: Buehrle down below 6%. Next year might be his last. He was never officially caught.
January 25, 20224 yr Just now, Texsox said: He was never officially caught. Same is true for a lot of guys that are objectively much better players.
January 25, 20224 yr 10 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/david-ortiz-says-his-failed-ped-test-leaked-because-too-many-yankees-tested-positive/ I do like that this article from 2017 includes this quote: Is that actually manning up?
January 26, 20224 yr 12 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Is that actually manning up? I’m pretty sure it’s the opposite.
January 26, 20224 yr 11 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said: Same is true for a lot of guys that are objectively much better players. I agree with you. I didn't want to see him elected. I think it's a disgrace to the game. It's also a giant to the guys falling off the ballot for steroids.
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