I don't mean trade off the stars for prospects, White Flag 2.0.

I'm talking about moves that force TLR's hand - trading Sheets to get Vaughn out of the platoon, DFAing/bullpenning Keuchel and acquiring a starter (probably same move), anything that gets Leury out of the #3 hole, etc.

I know we're only 11 games in, but after last season and a constantly-reminded-of Hall of Fame career, we know TLR isn't changing his stripes.

My overly emotional reaction is "Who fucking cares, they all deserve to go down with the ship."

JR, RH, KW....everyone. I don't want any of them around the team I root for. 

6 minutes ago, Quin said:

I don't mean trade off the stars for prospects, White Flag 2.0.

I'm talking about moves that force TLR's hand - trading Sheets to get Vaughn out of the platoon, DFAing/bullpenning Keuchel and acquiring a starter (probably same move), anything that gets Leury out of the #3 hole, etc.

I know we're only 11 games in, but after last season and a constantly-reminded-of Hall of Fame career, we know TLR isn't changing his stripes.

Never, he had his chance this off season and paying for relievers and scrubs and dealing with Kimbrel  were the extent of his and JR's "vision".

Edited April 21, 20223 yr by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

5 minutes ago, Quin said:

I don't mean trade off the stars for prospects, White Flag 2.0.

I'm talking about moves that force TLR's hand - trading Sheets to get Vaughn out of the platoon, DFAing/bullpenning Keuchel and acquiring a starter (probably same move), anything that gets Leury out of the #3 hole, etc.

 I know we're only 11 games in, but after last season and a constantly-reminded-of Hall of Fame career, we know TLR isn't changing his stripes.

You realize that TLR is in charge right.  It's him direct to JR.  The rest of the guys are just collecting checks waiting for this to play out.   You cant protect the roster enough to overcome TLR.  

2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Never

I meeeeeannnnn, Pollock definitely felt like a "fuck you move"

 

7 minutes ago, Quin said:

I don't mean trade off the stars for prospects, White Flag 2.0.

I'm talking about moves that force TLR's hand - trading Sheets to get Vaughn out of the platoon, DFAing/bullpenning Keuchel and acquiring a starter (probably same move), anything that gets Leury out of the #3 hole, etc.

I know we're only 11 games in, but after last season and a constantly-reminded-of Hall of Fame career, we know TLR isn't changing his stripes.

Time to go Billy Beane in Moneyball and start trading TLRs favorites so he can't play them. 

5 minutes ago, Tony said:

My overly emotional reaction is "Who fucking cares, they all deserve to go down with the ship."

JR, RH, KW....everyone. I don't want any of them around the team I root for. 

You left out TLR although you did say everyone so that includes him.

Edited April 21, 20223 yr by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

Are you guys factoring in "human analytics" thou?

10 minutes ago, Quin said:

I don't mean trade off the stars for prospects, White Flag 2.0.

I'm talking about moves that force TLR's hand - trading Sheets to get Vaughn out of the platoon, DFAing/bullpenning Keuchel and acquiring a starter (probably same move), anything that gets Leury out of the #3 hole, etc.

So, in other words, you want this FO to have a "DO-OVER" in terms of doing shit they SHOULD HAVE done this offseason? Shit that most of us could have seen as necessary back in, oh I dunno, the instant the 3rd out of the 9th Inning of Game 4 in last year's ALDS?

 

Good luck with that.

11 minutes ago, Quin said:

I don't mean trade off the stars for prospects, White Flag 2.0.

I'm talking about moves that force TLR's hand - trading Sheets to get Vaughn out of the platoon, DFAing/bullpenning Keuchel and acquiring a starter (probably same move), anything that gets Leury out of the #3 hole, etc.

I know we're only 11 games in, but after last season and a constantly-reminded-of Hall of Fame career, we know TLR isn't changing his stripes.

Does Hahn even have the authority to do that at this point? Won't TLR just go over his head to stop any moves he doesn't want?

1 minute ago, bmags said:

Are you guys factoring in "human analytics" thou?

You mean TWTW?

 

With "High Energy" Harrison, we've got all the TWTW we can handle.

Sheets playing over Vaughn is incredibly frustrating, but the Sox are 1 injury away to any one of Abreu, Eloy or Vaughn from him becoming someone who would be essential to the lineup, at least against RHP. He also has 5 years of team control left. Trading him away just for the sake of it would be awfully shortsighted.

Hahn is the guy to blame for not prioritizing any of the ~10+ FA SP's that would have upgraded the rotation and signed for affordable contracts. He backed the team into a corner where it was seemingly Manaea or bust to improve the rotation. He gave Leury a 3 year deal so it's not like he can be DFA'd if TLR is going to insist on batting him 3rd for whatever reason. I just don't have any sympathy for him right now because he's as responsible as anyone for why the roster is in the shape its in.

2 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

So, in other words, you want this FO to have a "DO-OVER" in terms of doing shit they SHOULD HAVE done this offseason? Shit that most of us could have seen as necessary back in, oh I dunno, the instant the 3rd out of the 9th Inning of Game 4 in last year's ALDS?

 

Good luck with that.

I saw you quoted me, didn't really expect much, and was still disappointed because this is pretty much your copy/paste stoopid abrasive schtick and talking point all winter long.

And I like you more than most people on the board.

Conforto is still available.

3 minutes ago, Quin said:

I saw you quoted me, didn't really expect much, and was still disappointed because this is pretty much your copy/paste stoopid abrasive schtick and talking point all winter long.

And I like you more than most people on the board.

I appreciate that you like me better than most.

But honestly, you're basically asking for an "Offseason Do-Over," in terms of the acquisitions.

Beyond that, you're asking for TLR to be supervised by like, ANYONE, and we both know that won't happen. Or alternatively, you're asking for TLR to lower himself to accepting the counsel of his assistants, and we similarly both know that ain't happening.

We've lost a couple games ALREADY, based on TLR's decisionmaking. And, we've probably lost another game or two because they just "HAD TO" do what they did this offseason, and fail to replace Rodon. 

 

It is what it is.

Edited April 21, 20223 yr by Two-Gun Pete

The Sox spend half a decade rebuilding, only to waste it on Tony LaRussa.  It just hurts.

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

The Sox spend half a decade rebuilding, only to waste it Tony LaRussa.  It just hurts.

It's not just that he actively hurts the teams chances of winning (obviously he does) but he also makes the team so much less enjoyable to root for. It's brutal in every way possible.

Has there ever been a worse top 3 in a line up in modern baseball history than what Tony penciled in for game 2 yesterday? He has either lost all marbles, or was trying to be bad.

9 minutes ago, Quin said:

I saw you quoted me, didn't really expect much, and was still disappointed because this is pretty much your copy/paste stoopid abrasive schtick and talking point all winter long.

And I like you more than most people on the board.

He is right though. I edited my "Never" post to say pretty much the same thing before I saw Two Guns post.

I am not at the point of blowing anything up. But if this team disappoints this season, there should be changes in field and office management. LaRussa would have to go and other changes should be made. I just don't know if JR is engaged enough or wants to make any changes. Regardless, it's time for Hahn, KW, and LaRussa to leave. The team needs new leadership and new blood.

5 minutes ago, NWINFan said:

I am not at the point of blowing anything up. But if this team disappoints this season, there should be changes in field and office management. LaRussa would have to go and other changes should be made. I just don't know if JR is engaged enough or wants to make any changes. Regardless, it's time for Hahn, KW, and LaRussa to leave. The team needs new leadership and new blood.

If this year is a dissappointment or they win it all, I think Tony will be done. I think the only way he is managing the team next season is if they make the playoffs, advance but fall short of a championship.

7 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

He is right though. I edited my "Never" post to say pretty much the same thing before I saw Two Guns post.

Yeah, but Hahn is nothing if not a GM who is sets a plan, then is very reactive when stuff goes wrong. His plan was probably "give TLR a great lineup, bullpen, 3 ace-level starters, Kopech, and hopefully Keuchel doesn't shit the bed. Not even TLR can mismanage that."

And now...due to inevitable injuries (which everyone on the board flashed a neon-sign warning were coming) we're in the dangerous reactive Hahn territory where I want to hide Bryan Ramos and Colson Montgomery.

 

27 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Has there ever been a worse top 3 in a line up in modern baseball history than what Tony penciled in for game 2 yesterday? He has either lost all marbles, or was trying to be bad.

The bottom three guys weren't much better on paper. Yikes.

7 minutes ago, Quin said:

Yeah, but Hahn is nothing if not a GM who is sets a plan, then is very reactive when stuff goes wrong. His plan was probably "give TLR a great lineup, bullpen, 3 ace-level starters, Kopech, and hopefully Keuchel doesn't shit the bed. Not even TLR can mismanage that."

And now...due to inevitable injuries (which everyone on the board flashed a neon-sign warning were coming) we're in the dangerous reactive Hahn territory where I want to hide Bryan Ramos and Colson Montgomery.

 

Well, I appreciate you [indirectly] agreeing with me. But why don't you direct your IRE at the FO [where it rightly belongs], instead of at me?

Any of us could have seen that TLR needed to accept supervision, or to accept assistance with managing the team. And any one of us could have seen that spending money in FA this offseason was and is vastly superior to them overspending on RPs, then having to reactively try to save the day by trading the last bits of value in the system later.

And yes, I agree with YOU that the more VV and Keuchel shit their pants, the more likely it is that RH makes a desperation move that he DIDN'T need to make if he acted proactively.

I'm no Hahn apologist as I have my issues with him for sure but at this point I really do wonder how much his hands are tied with some things.  

Edited April 21, 20223 yr by Rowand44