2023 MLB Draft thread

[DirtySox]

Baseball America podcast about cold starts from top draft picks. Jacob Gonzalez amongst those discussed. They start the topic around the 1 hour 31 minute mark.

 

[DirtySox]

2 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

Baseball America podcast about cold starts from top draft picks. Jacob Gonzalez amongst those discussed. They start the topic around the 1 hour 31 minute mark.

 

Gonzalez talk starts at 1:38. Immediately begin talking about swing concerns.

[oldsox]

17 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

Gonzalez talk starts at 1:38. Immediately begin talking about swing concerns.

I wonder if he has any trade value.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

He has a lot of work to do with his swing and him being a below avg athlete will make it that much more difficult.  

[Timmy U]

47 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

He has a lot of work to do with his swing and him being a below avg athlete will make it that much more difficult.  

How do they make such a huge scouting blunder?  First video I saw of him before the draft, it stuck out like a sore thumb. Then when I saw him at Kanny, it did not look any better.  As I said on draft day, how do you take a bat-first player if you immediately want to change his swing?!

[Timmy U]

One bit of hope on the BA podcast is they say maybe Gonzalez is just tired. Certainly, if all you saw of Montgomery was his Birmingham stint last year, you would not have been high on him.  Clearly, Gonzalez knows the zone, makes good swing decisions, and looks cromulent at ss.  That is a decent floor to build on. I hope he just decides to pull everything ala Robin Ventura, a similarly underwhelming athlete.  He looks okay pulling the ball, it’s when he tries to go to left where he looks completely unplayable.

[bmags]

5 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

One bit of hope on the BA podcast is they say maybe Gonzalez is just tired. Certainly, if all you saw of Montgomery was his Birmingham stint last year, you would not have been high on him.  Clearly, Gonzalez knows the zone, makes good swing decisions, and looks cromulent at ss.  That is a decent floor to build on. I hope he just decides to pull everything ala Robin Ventura, a similarly underwhelming athlete.  He looks okay pulling the ball, it’s when he tries to go to left where he looks completely unplayable.

Can you point me to his swing change? Looking at his single from last night on twitter, it doesn't really look different to me. His set-up is a little different in that he seems to start up a bit more upright and dips but that just seems like a new timing mechanism. But the swing and how he bails out on his legs all seems the same to me

[Timmy U]

33 minutes ago, bmags said:

Can you point me to his swing change? Looking at his single from last night on twitter, it doesn't really look different to me. His set-up is a little different in that he seems to start up a bit more upright and dips but that just seems like a new timing mechanism. But the swing and how he bails out on his legs all seems the same to me

Like you said, he's a little more upright and I think he's slightly more closed. That said, it's not that much different.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

2 hours ago, Timmy U said:

How do they make such a huge scouting blunder?  First video I saw of him before the draft, it stuck out like a sore thumb. Then when I saw him at Kanny, it did not look any better.  As I said on draft day, how do you take a bat-first player if you immediately want to change his swing?!

They valued the data over the evaluation.  The obvious problem with that is you don't know how that data will translate to the next level when he's facing better pitching, using a wood bat, hitting a different baseball, playing in bigger ballparks and against better defenders , etc.  I'm not saying he's a bust as he does show some feel to hit and bat to ball skills but it's hard to see at this point how that translates into anything other than another low impact player. 

[DirtySox]

 

 

[Harold's Leg Lift]

The White Sox are going to be a much better organization now that they have a GM who will let the scouts do their job instead of one who thought his computer was smarter than they are.  

[DirtySox]

I really don't enjoy being an overly pessimistic person, but man I can't shake the feeling that we whiffed hard on Gonzalez. Bleh.

[fathom]

1 hour ago, DirtySox said:

I really don't enjoy being an overly pessimistic person, but man I can't shake the feeling that we whiffed hard on Gonzalez. Bleh.

I can’t recall the last time a high pick just immediately flopped like this.  It’s one thing to put up bad stats, but the eye test and scouts illustrate it also.  

[Balta1701]

3 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

The White Sox are going to be a much better organization now that they have a GM who will let the scouts do their job instead of one who thought his computer was smarter than they are.  

Because that's been systematically our complaint the last 5 years, the White Sox use their computers too much and need more people who go with their guts. 

[oldsox]

7 hours ago, DirtySox said:

I really don't enjoy being an overly pessimistic person, but man I can't shake the feeling that we whiffed hard on Gonzalez. Bleh.

You're not alone.

[PolishPrince34]

Gonzalez looks brutal right now! I'm still shocked we drafted this guy. Thought Shirley would have a bigger say on the first rounder.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

1 hour ago, PolishPrince34 said:

Gonzalez looks brutal right now! I'm still shocked we drafted this guy. Thought Shirley would have a bigger say on the first rounder.

Shirley didn't have enough juice with those goofs but he'll have it with Getz. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 9/7/2023 at 7:35 AM, Harold's Leg Lift said:

The White Sox are going to be a much better organization now that they have a GM who will let the scouts do their job instead of one who thought his computer was smarter than they are.  

Sounds like the movie Trouble With the Curve. Unrated Clint Eastwood movie.

[caulfield12]

6 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Sounds like the movie Trouble With the Curve. Unrated Clint Eastwood movie.

Costner?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 9/7/2023 at 10:43 AM, Balta1701 said:

Because that's been systematically our complaint the last 5 years, the White Sox use their computers too much and need more people who go with their guts. 

At least from my perspective it's that they don't have enough people doing more with their computers. Not enough people, not enough data or sports science info to rely on data to analyze things like bat speed and bath path to make mechanical changes that may help  or however teams like the Dodgers did it to change Outman's swing.

It would be nice to know if at some point every minor league player went through a process like they do in movies to attach data points on a persons body to get a comprehensive computer image of how their body parts move during  hitting , fielding and pitching motions. Motion capture is what I think they call it in the movies when creating digital characters.

Then there should be some knowledge that many teams use in order to deal with issues they find using that science. It's more of a development tool. I know some of the advanced baseball teaching academies use those types of motion capture devices to break down, analyze and teach better  or more effective  ways to swing a bat or deliver a pitch.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

55 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Costner?

No. Trouble With the Curve. Eastwood, Amy Adams and Justin Timberlake. I meant under rated not unrated movie. From a baseball fan and movie lover I liked it.

Edited September 19, 2023 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[ptatc]

26 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

At least from my perspective it's that they don't have enough people doing more with their computers. Not enough people, not enough data or sports science info to rely on data to analyze things like bat speed and bath path to make mechanical changes that may help  or however teams like the Dodgers did it to change Outman's swing.

It would be nice to know if at some point every minor league player went through a process like they do in movies to attach data points on a persons body to get a comprehensive computer image of how their body parts move during  hitting , fielding and pitching motions. Motion capture is what I think they call it in the movies when creating digital characters.

Then there should be some knowledge that many teams use in order to deal with issues they find using that science. It's more of a development tool. I know some of the advanced baseball teaching academies use those types of motion capture devices to break down, analyze and teach better  or more effective  ways to swing a bat or deliver a pitch.

I agree. Most teams are using the data more not less. Not that the scouts aren't important, I still think they should have more say than straight computer analysis, but it's important to get data from all perspectives not drown one out.