9 hours ago, FourEyesShottenhoffer said:

I think he beefed up too much. His head has swollen like Barry Bonds

Steroids?

(presumably this has nothing to do with any trade rumors).

I would definitely trade ol Luke for a couple prospects. His expertise doesn't fly here any more. His physical skills appear in decline. A change of scenery would be commendable. It would remove the need for me to wish another guy played better than he has shown. A new coach could show him where to hide the sticky stuff. He has no intention of staying here. Enough. 

 

12 hours ago, pcq said:

I would definitely trade ol Luke for a couple prospects. His expertise doesn't fly here any more. His physical skills appear in decline. A change of scenery would be commendable. It would remove the need for me to wish another guy played better than he has shown. A new coach could show him where to hide the sticky stuff. He has no intention of staying here. Enough. 

Then what are you doing about the gaping hole in the rotation? I’ll hang up a listen. 

10 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Then what are you doing about the gaping hole in the rotation? I’ll hang up a listen. 

That’s the million dollar question no one who wants to trade Lucas can answer.  And in a rotation with three dudes already with health concerns, it’s very hard to move one of the two dependable guys who can soak up innings.

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

That’s the million dollar question no one who wants to trade Lucas can answer.  And in a rotation with three dudes already with health concerns, it’s very hard to move one of the two dependable guys who can soak up innings.

Not to mentioned with an org that has literally no upper minors SP depth. Trading Lucas continues to make absolutely no sense. 

4 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Not to mentioned with an org that has literally no upper minors SP depth. Trading Lucas continues to make absolutely no sense. 

You’d have to sign a free agent like Quintana or Manaea, but I think that would be a likely downgrade.

I’m not advocating a trade of Gio, but is moving Reynaldo back to the rotation a possible consideration?

11 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

That’s the million dollar question no one who wants to trade Lucas can answer.  And in a rotation with three dudes already with health concerns, it’s very hard to move one of the two dependable guys who can soak up innings.

More like the $100M+ question given how much starting pitchers cost now.

1 minute ago, FourEyesShottenhoffer said:

I’m not advocating a trade of Gio, but is moving Reynaldo back to the rotation a possible consideration?

Reynaldo doesn't have enough good pitches to start. 

1 minute ago, FourEyesShottenhoffer said:

I’m not advocating a trade of Gio, but is moving Reynaldo back to the rotation a possible consideration?

I think it was Cali that suggested trade Hendriks and have ReyLo close, and that gave me pause but worth considering. But I still think ReyLo is closer to being a closer now than he is to going back into the rotation.

8 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

You’d have to sign a free agent like Quintana or Manaea, but I think that would be a likely downgrade.

A downgrade, and more expensive. Makes no sense unless some other team really, really wants Gio at 1/$10.5M. 

I think it would be dumb to trade Lucas when his value is so low, I would hope for a first half rebound then evaluate at the deadline to see where he/team are at. 

I’m not sure Quintana is a clear downgrade at this point. He outpitched him by a mile last year. Sub 3 ERA and FIP, led league in hr/9. Eight home runs in 163 IP is incredible these days. Not to mention Gio’s pending free agency at which point Sox get nothing but a chance to offer QO, which, if he were to pitch like last year, would be inadvisable

1 hour ago, FourEyesShottenhoffer said:

I’m not sure Quintana is a clear downgrade at this point. He outpitched him by a mile last year. Sub 3 ERA and FIP, led league in hr/9. Eight home runs in 163 IP is incredible these days. Not to mention Gio’s pending free agency at which point Sox get nothing but a chance to offer QO, which, if he were to pitch like last year, would be inadvisable

I like Q but after last year he will be too expensive and his HR/9 numbers suggest regression.

Manaea will be a more affordable LHP alternative. 

I'd rather trade lynn and hendricks then get creative with the extra 33m saved
Both have generous club options and should also return average starter talent
If done correctly hahn could fill 2 holes plus have around 60m+ to spend while only losing an aging #3 and closer

best case with gio is you'll get around 2WAR in return but won't get any payroll relief

Just now, SoCalChiSox said:

I like Q but after last year he will be too expensive and his HR/9 numbers suggest regression.

Manaea will be a more affordable LHP alternative. 

Yeah because he’s nowhere close to Quintana.

Quintana has had consistently solid hr numbers aside from ‘21 in which he only pitched 63 innings. So even a regression would mean above average. 0.9 Hr/9 over entire career. 

Manaea has also been buoyed by pitching in Oakland. His away stats are significantly worse whereas Q’s are nearly identical to home. Q is 26.5 career WAR pitcher coming off 3.5 season, Manaea is 11.5 career coming off negative WAR season. Q over Manaea should be a no brainer. Of course he would cost more

2 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

Reynaldo doesn't have enough good pitches to start. 

Yes he does.  His changeup is much improved as it's almost unhittable now he just doesn't have to throw it often in 1 inning stints. His command is also much improved.  

Going into a "competitive" season and banking on ReyLo being a starter seems like a disaster waiting to happen. 

4 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Yes he does.  His changeup is much improved as it's almost unhittable now he just doesn't have to throw it often in 1 inning stints. His command is also much improved.  

He only used it and the curveball against LH hitters though. He was strictly fast ball -slider against righties. I’d imagine he’d use the curve more as a starter against righties, but that was his best pitch when he first came up, so…it’s a debatable proposition at least

Amazingly, MLB trade rumors actually projects Manaea at a higher and longer contract than Q. That makes no sense to me, but they were projecting Q at 22/2 compared to 54/4 for Manaea. Obviously those numbers are low when Boyd is getting 10/1, at least for Q. I was thinking he’d get something like 45/3

1 hour ago, FourEyesShottenhoffer said:

Yeah because he’s nowhere close to Quintana.

Quintana has had consistently solid hr numbers aside from ‘21 in which he only pitched 63 innings. So even a regression would mean above average. 0.9 Hr/9 over entire career. 

Im not saying Q is inferior to Manaea.

Instead, as JR told RH when they were booking flights for the Winter Meetings "you can't buy first class when you can only afford economy"

Edited December 4, 20223 yr by SoCalChiSox

In a world in which what’s left of Clevinger gets $12 mil for 1 year, Gio for $10.8 is a pretty darn good risk.  He doesn’t have to be top 3 Cy Young to be well worth it.  If the Sox are serious about being “in their competitive window,” you would not trade Gio unless you got a haul.