2 hours ago, SonofaRoache said:

We are used to being cheap. It's always better to sign elite players when you can. We sign guys past their primes looking to catch lightning and that rarely works. 

With positional players - yes. With pitchers - I would rather develop or trade for elite guys with other talent vs go big and long. 
 

Or as I advocated last in past just overpay for shorter term. 

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Sounds like a great concept.

Tell me again how many guys in the White Sox rotation they either drafted or signed internationally? Cause it better be a lot. Houston has like 6 of those guys.

I consider Gio, Cease, Kopech all guys that come from that approach. The Sox used guys to get ‘em and than develop em. 
 

Rodon was drafted and obviously didn’t work - but Quintana and Sale were reason Sox had some of the above. But yes - Sox clearly need to do better but they have generally had better pitching than most. 
 

 

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

I have good evidence that he cannot stay healthy in the bullpen. But boy, “I won’t spend the kind of money these FA pitchers are getting” and “Yes I drafted a reliever I’m the top 15 picks why do you ask” is one helluva plan.

And I guess you forgot Kopech spending 2021 in the bullpen and having to start from scratch in 2022 on stretching his arm out again.

Dude - we get it. Sox haven’t been good enough - that doesn’t make the points being made wrong - just makes the Sox front office bad. No one is implying they aren’t - but I don’t think handing out Degrom deal would be a recipe for success….especially for a team with the payroll the Sox have. 

52 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

They have so many pitchers on the roster that they just had to go dumpster diving for Clevinger. And last year Cueto. So quite clearly they don’t have nearly enough.

And again, unless you are ready for a whole dumpster diving rotation, you just unwittingly said they need to trade Cease and made a mistake not trading Giolito. 

Because when those guys get held, they don’t generate any return, and that’s the only way we are allowed to generate starters since we draft relievers and don’t sign guys internationally.

The end result of this next year is obvious. They will have Cease and Kopech in their rotation and will not be willing to spend $80 million a year to fill it out.

Yes - the team with the highest projected starting rotation WAR had to go dumpster diving. Dude - come on. I am not saying they shouldn’t have developed more but give credit to where it is due - without spending big money fa they have found a way to put a pretty good rotation at the MLB level. 
 

Id love more depth and all that and so would almost every team in baseball but this teams top 5 is playoff worthy. The stupid usage of money on relievers and utility guys - that is a whole nother story. 

The rangers have spent nearly 750 million on 4 players that aren't even close to top 25 players in the league (maybe not top 50) Great plan...this totally won't blow up in their faces...

Edited December 3, 20223 yr by EloyJenkins

1 minute ago, EloyJenkins said:

The rangers have spent nearly 750 million on 4 players that aren't even close to top 25 players in the league (maybe not top 50) Great plan...this totally won't blow up in their faces...

Yeah it is absurd. Spend the money on the elite. Still pisses me off Sox didn’t get Harper. And if it isn’t that - do targeted buy low guys, people you can fix, or see how the market develops and take advantage of market inefficiencies. 

3 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

Yeah it is absurd. Spend the money on the elite. Still pisses me off Sox didn’t get Harper. And if it isn’t that - do targeted buy low guys, people you can fix, or see how the market develops and take advantage of market inefficiencies. 

Corey Seager or Semien would make an enormous difference on this team. The Sox haven't had a 2nd basemen with a higher fWAR than Semien last year since 1965. Signing good players is extremely expensive but that doesn't make it a bad idea.

Were the Rangers bidding against themselves? Dude only made 15 and 11 starts the past two years due to elbow and shoulder issues. This contract is absolutely nuts

The Rangers pulled off a stunner ahead of next week's Winter Meetings, signing ace right-hander Jacob deGrom to a five-year free-agent contract on Friday night. The deal will pay deGrom $185 million, a source told MLB.com; the club has not confirmed the value of the contract.

deGrom, 34, is one of the most decorated pitchers of his generation, a two-time National League Cy Young Award winner as a Met who bloomed late but continued to improve into his early 30s.

53 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

Corey Seager or Semien would make an enormous difference on this team. The Sox haven't had a 2nd basemen with a higher fWAR than Semien last year since 1965. Signing good players is extremely expensive but that doesn't make it a bad idea.

Seager I don’t mind. Semien - meh. I actually wanted to sign Simeon when he went to Jays but the deal the Rangers did just was way too much. But seager I can’t argue as much - liken his ability to pay off for a longer portion of that contract. 
 

But I have zero issue with big money deals to position players - especially ones with strong tools and age on there side. 

25 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

Seager I don’t mind. Semien - meh. I actually wanted to sign Simeon when he went to Jays but the deal the Rangers did just was way too much. But seager I can’t argue as much - liken his ability to pay off for a longer portion of that contract. 
 

But I have zero issue with big money deals to position players - especially ones with strong tools and age on there side. 

For a rebuilding club, I'm with you on the Semien contract. But I definitely would have preferred the Sox commit ~26M AAV to Semien last off-season rather than choosing to spend that money on 2nd tier relievers like Graveman + Kelly and an ineffective role player like Harrison. I don't agree missing out on him is meh when he's an established star caliber player & regularly churning out seasons more valuable than the Sox have gotten out of 2nd base since Nellie Fox in the 50s & 60s.

Edited December 3, 20223 yr by maxjusttyped

3 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

For a rebuilding club, I'm with you on the Semien contract. But I definitely would have preferred the Sox commit ~26M AAV to Semien last off-season rather than choosing to spend that money on 2nd tier relievers like Graveman + Kelly and an ineffective role player like Harrison. I don't agree missing out on him is meh when he's an established star caliber player & regularly churning out seasons more valuable than the Sox have gotten out of 2nd base since Nellie Fox in the 50s & 60s.

I would have signed Correa last off season or went a different route. Loved me the Correa deal. 

Just now, Chisoxfn said:

I would have signed Correa last off season or went a different route. Loved me the Correa deal. 

Hell yeah. Me too. The Sox should have been all over that.

2 hours ago, Chisoxfn said:

Yes - the team with the highest projected starting rotation WAR had to go dumpster diving. Dude - come on. I am not saying they shouldn’t have developed more but give credit to where it is due - without spending big money fa they have found a way to put a pretty good rotation at the MLB level. 
 

Id love more depth and all that and so would almost every team in baseball but this teams top 5 is playoff worthy. The stupid usage of money on relievers and utility guys - that is a whole nother story. 

Highest in the AL Central, for now - not if Gio is moved though. Not highest in baseball. Wonder how it looks in that context? I did. They were second highest in the AL Central last year and 15th in MLB.(Cleveland was 14th). Top half! What an accomplishment, totally worth bragging about as a major success. That’s what we went through the rebuild for, so that at their peak they can find a 36 year old pitcher on the scrap heap and have that be enough to keep them 15th best in baseball.

These guys don’t deserve this kind of blind adoration. Especially with where it wound up last year. 

21 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Highest in the AL Central, for now - not if Gio is moved though. Not highest in baseball. Wonder how it looks in that context? I did. They were second highest in the AL Central last year and 15th in MLB.(Cleveland was 14th). Top half! What an accomplishment, totally worth bragging about as a major success. That’s what we went through the rebuild for, so that at their peak they can find a 36 year old pitcher on the scrap heap and have that be enough to keep them 15th best in baseball.

These guys don’t deserve this kind of blind adoration. Especially with where it wound up last year. 

Since 2020 they have the 2nd highest pitching war in baseball behind the dodgers (6th highest starting pitching).  
 

And no one is saying have blind adoration for anything. 

3 hours ago, reiks12 said:

so stupid of the Rangers, hes not going to pitch more than 100 innings a season

The Rangers desperately needed a top of the rotation starter and they got the best one available. They are taking a chance and they are trying to win. Good for them.

11 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

What do you mean?

I don’t recall anyone thinking it was a bargain, especially with the fifth year. This board usually trashed every pitcher deal.

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

I don’t recall anyone thinking it was a bargain, especially with the fifth year. This board usually trashed every pitcher deal.

At the time it was signed it may not have looked like a bargain. But after seeing what guys are signing for this off-season so far, it certainly looks good.

4 minutes ago, bmags said:

I don’t recall anyone thinking it was a bargain, especially with the fifth year. This board usually trashed every pitcher deal.

Here is me saying we should sign him to a 5/$138M contract, which is what MLBTR was projecting for him at the time.  He literally got 80% of that.  No idea how others felt, but I was pretty pissed we missed out and this isn’t a case of revisionist thinking.

 

3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Here is me saying we should sign him to a 5/$138M contract, which is what MLBTR was projecting for him at the time.  He literally got 80% of that.  No idea how others felt, but I was pretty pissed we missed out and this isn’t a case of revisionist thinking.

 

My bad, I am also pro long term pitcher deals though so I concur it would have been good. I think many thought he was a 4/80 guy and one year wonder (eh 1.5).

That said I wouldn’t make this deal for DeGrom. And since it’s another team, hope it doesn’t work out.

Just now, bmags said:

My bad, I am also pro long term pitcher deals though so I concur it would have been good. I think many thought he was a 4/80 guy and one year wonder (eh 1.5).

That said I wouldn’t make this deal for DeGrom. And since it’s another team, hope it doesn’t work out.

Fully agree.  This DeGrom deal has a chance to be epically bad, just jealous the Rangers ownership group is willing to spend some big dollars.

10 hours ago, Chisoxfn said:

I would have signed Correa last off season or went a different route. Loved me the Correa deal. 

Agreed

13 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

$1.2M per start in the very unlikely event he makes 32 starts in a season. 

Few people make mention of this.  Sounds like a perfect fit for the Sox IL team,

 

10 hours ago, Chisoxfn said:

I would have signed Correa last off season or went a different route. Loved me the Correa deal. 

I would love to add one of the big SS now. But I doubt TA’s ego would allow a move to 2B.

Now he will have to adjust to another league of hitters.   It can work for or against the 1st season.   This is one of those not so often situations where a pitcher changes leagues.  Maybe this is the Met's version of the Sox with Rodon.