$75M = One of the worst White Sox LF Seasons

[Kyyle23]

4 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Benintendi $75M. Jaime Navarro $15M. Not in the same universe

Kenny Williams acquired Adam Dunn two seasons before Rick Hahn took over.

It’s definitely the same universe, that was a large contract for the sox(and a poor one)

[wrathofhahn]

Hahn actually has done alright on trades and been about average hitting on prospects.

But hes been absolutely f'n god awful in free agency. Wasted hundreds of millions of dollars on barely replacement level players. FA should really should be the easiest part the job but time and time he wastes money on guys which absolutely kills our ability to field a competitive team.

The worst part is Beni had a .352 BABIP last year. This is around what his normalized OPS should have been last year. Anyone with half a brain could have seen this coming.

Infact his xWOBP (his expected weighted OBA) was .334 according to fangraphs his actual OBP so far this year is you guessed it .334. His slugging and ISO numbers are a bit down and he probably a bit better than his power numbers this year but when we signed him we should known what he was. 

He never was going to be the 122 wRC+ of last year.

Edited August 20, 2023 by wrathofhahn

[oldsox]

36 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

Hahn actually has done alright on trades and been about average hitting on prospects.

But hes been absolutely f'n god awful in free agency. Wasted hundreds of millions of dollars on barely replacement level players. FA should really should be the easiest part the job but time and time he wastes money on guys which absolutely kills our ability to field a competitive team.

The worst part is Beni had a .352 BABIP last year. This is around what his normalized OPS should have been last year. Anyone with half a brain could have seen this coming.

Infact his xWOBP (his expected weighted OBA) was .334 according to fangraphs his actual OBP so far this year is you guessed it .334. His slugging and ISO numbers are a bit down and he probably a bit better than his power numbers this year but when we signed him we should known what he was. 

He never was going to be the 122 wRC+ of last year.

Great post. Benintendi's agent must be a lot smarter than Hahn,

[GreenSox]

On 8/13/2023 at 8:31 PM, South Side Hit Men said:

bWAR Player Year / Total Games Played (Age; Career bWAR)

1.  
2. -0.9 Tommy Davis 1968 G 132 (27; 20.4)  - Another bad Sox vs. Dodgers trade 

Great stats. It was the Mets though
Just as a historical sidenote, the trade that brought this man to the southside after the '67 season would make even Rick Hahn blush.  It accelerated the Sox downturn, and without this trade, there would have been no "Miracle Mets."

Edited August 20, 2023 by GreenSox

[oldsox]

38 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Great stats. It was the Mets though
Just as a historical sidenote, the trade that brought this man to the southside after the '67 season would make even Rick Hahn blush.  It accelerated the Sox downturn, and without this trade, there would have been no "Miracle Mets."

Tommie Agee?

[Balta1701]

3 hours ago, wrathofhahn said:

Hahn actually has done alright on trades and been about average hitting on prospects.

But hes been absolutely f'n god awful in free agency. Wasted hundreds of millions of dollars on barely replacement level players. FA should really should be the easiest part the job but time and time he wastes money on guys which absolutely kills our ability to field a competitive team.

The worst part is Beni had a .352 BABIP last year. This is around what his normalized OPS should have been last year. Anyone with half a brain could have seen this coming.

Infact his xWOBP (his expected weighted OBA) was .334 according to fangraphs his actual OBP so far this year is you guessed it .334. His slugging and ISO numbers are a bit down and he probably a bit better than his power numbers this year but when we signed him we should known what he was. 

He never was going to be the 122 wRC+ of last year.

There is no way Rick Hahn’s draft and international signing production is average. 

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, oldsox said:

Tommie Agee?

Agee, J.C. Martin and Al Weis. 

[GreenSox]

4 hours ago, wrathofhahn said:

Hahn actually has done alright on trades and been about average hitting on prospects.

What?
The only good trades he's made that really helped the team, without giving up way more than we received,  were Eaton x 2 and Eloy/Cease; #4 is probably Santos, as inconsequential as that is. His next best are probably the ones he made at the deadline this year.

[wrathofhahn]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

There is no way Rick Hahn’s draft and international signing production is average. 

I mean I haven't sat down and calculated the WAR from picks during his entire tenure. I am just going off memory and what I've seen from other GM's.

It doesn't really matter because his FA record is so atrocious. i remember reading an article about his FA signings where they used the WAR dollars feature of fangraphs to figure out the difference between what Hahn paid for and what he received and he literally has cost Jerry almost half a billion dollars more than what they should have over the course of 50 FA signings.

And that is just over what an average GM would be able to do. Good GM's manage to sign flyer type FA and extract value from unlikely places like the Rays manage to do every year.

But yeah I think people here have a warped idea what average is. Average isn't good, it's mediocre. I am not saying Hahn is a good drafter or trader just that it's not his worst attribute.

Edited August 20, 2023 by wrathofhahn

[The Mighty Mite]

I’m giving Benintendi a pass this year because I don’t think his wrist is 100%, he has trouble pulling the ball and I’m sure it’s because of the wrist. That being said he’s not a big run producer that you want from a leftfielder, hopefully he’s 100% next year and he will probably give you 15 homers and 80 RBI while batting close to .300 with an OPS around .780.

[Lip Man 1]

2 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

I’m giving Benintendi a pass this year because I don’t think his wrist is 100%, he has trouble pulling the ball and I’m sure it’s because of the wrist. That being said he’s not a big run producer that you want from a leftfielder, hopefully he’s 100% next year and he will probably give you 15 homers and 80 RBI while batting close to .300 with an OPS around .780.

If he's having a good year he could be traded at the deadline. The Sox won't be doing anything so they may as well try to get something for him. 

[The Mighty Mite]

11 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

If he's having a good year he could be traded at the deadline. The Sox won't be doing anything so they may as well try to get something for him. 

You haven’t heard that the Sox will be contenders in 2024?

[oldsox]

Beni has poor throwing arm.  When Tovar stretched the single to a double, it was all set up by inability to throw a fastball to second base.

[Chicago White Sox]

Imagine giving a bad defensive LF who can’t hit for power the largest contract in franchise history.  Just such a terrible deal and it sucks that we’ll stuck with him for another four years.

[Balta1701]

21 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Imagine giving a bad defensive LF who can’t hit for power the largest contract in franchise history.  Just such a terrible deal and it sucks that we’ll stuck with him for another four years.

Worth pointing out that prior to this year he has been a perfectly cromulent outfielder and that his defensive dropoff this year is dramatic?

[Tnetennba]

$15M per for Benintendi’s past performance was mostly viewed positively last winter if I recall.  The bigger issue was that 5/$75M was the largest outlay in franchise history, and that outlay happened to be for a solid but non spectacular player.  We also as fans are jaded because so many middling free agents have signed with the Sox right at the point where age catches up to performance and they crater.  The Sox are where careers go to die, and Benintendi seems like the newest addition to that sad Sox fraternity.  Only four more years baby!

 I hope Rick Hahn hasn’t dislocated a shoulder patting himself on the back for that deal…

[vilehoopster]

59 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Imagine giving a bad defensive LF who can’t hit for power the largest contract in franchise history.  Just such a terrible deal and it sucks that we’ll stuck with him for another four years.

People state things on this board that are not correct, and then they get repeated, and people run with them until they're accepted as fact. 

My example is that last year when Vaughn (and Sheets too) was playing outfield and people were complaining over and over about how he was going to injure someone, probably Robert, by running into him on a fly ball. Now, Vaughn might be slow getting to balls but to say that he couldn't remember to call for a fly ball or hear Robert calling him off was ridiculous. He was no more likely to injure another fielder than any other player, yet it was repeated on his board over and over as fact. 

Now to Benitendi being a bad left fielder. He won a glove gold there two years ago. He is a very good defensive left fielder, better than I can remember the Sox having there in a loooong time. I get that you think Hahn spent too much for him, or that you're disappointed in his bat. But to state that he's a bad defensive left fielder just isn't true. 

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

People state things on this board that are not correct, and then they get repeated, and people run with them until they're accepted as fact. 

My example is that last year when Vaughn (and Sheets too) was playing outfield and people were complaining over and over about how he was going to injure someone, probably Robert, by running into him on a fly ball. Now, Vaughn might be slow getting to balls but to say that he couldn't remember to call for a fly ball or hear Robert calling him off was ridiculous. He was no more likely to injure another fielder than any other player, yet it was repeated on his board over and over as fact. 

Now to Benitendi being a bad left fielder. He won a glove gold there two years ago. He is a very good defensive left fielder, better than I can remember the Sox having there in a loooong time. I get that you think Hahn spent too much for him, or that you're disappointed in his bat. But to state that he's a bad defensive left fielder just isn't true. 

Eloy was the one we kept talking about as likely to kill himself or someone else. Which remains true.

Vaughn was supposedly struggling with being able to maintain conditioning throughout a season, so moving him to 1b was supposed to help his legs stay fresher. Oops.

Benintendi won a gold glove by “default”, he played 1000 innings in LF and there was literally 1 other LF in baseball who played 800 innings that year. There were so few LF who played innings that Vaughn was in the top 5 in LF innings that year. That award is one step above Palmeiro’s famous Gold Glove in how useful it is at evaluating him. 

Prior to this year, Benintendi has been at average LF in most of the stats for the last 2 years. He has been well below average this year, his defensive stats are way worse and narrowly better than Schwarber. Sadly, this is still an upgrade over Vaughn and Eloy, who have been two of the worst outfielders in all of baseball. So, your statement that it is better than the Sox have had out there is narrowly true, but it is still way worse than what we should have expected. It is disconcerting enough that someone should conduct a review to figure out why he is performing so much worse this year, that could be on coaching or his own motivation or something else.

[bmags]

8 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

People state things on this board that are not correct, and then they get repeated, and people run with them until they're accepted as fact. 

My example is that last year when Vaughn (and Sheets too) was playing outfield and people were complaining over and over about how he was going to injure someone, probably Robert, by running into him on a fly ball. Now, Vaughn might be slow getting to balls but to say that he couldn't remember to call for a fly ball or hear Robert calling him off was ridiculous. He was no more likely to injure another fielder than any other player, yet it was repeated on his board over and over as fact. 

Now to Benitendi being a bad left fielder. He won a glove gold there two years ago. He is a very good defensive left fielder, better than I can remember the Sox having there in a loooong time. I get that you think Hahn spent too much for him, or that you're disappointed in his bat. But to state that he's a bad defensive left fielder just isn't true. 

He's having a very bad year, and he's had very bad years before but many thought it was weirdness surrounding the green monster. He clearly is a bit better in more spacious fields like KC, but our corner outfields are pretty small. Also he's slowing down.

And there was a danger with inexperienced outfielders causing danger:

[nitetrain8601]

On 8/20/2023 at 6:56 AM, wrathofhahn said:

Hahn actually has done alright on trades and been about average hitting on prospects.

But hes been absolutely f'n god awful in free agency. Wasted hundreds of millions of dollars on barely replacement level players. FA should really should be the easiest part the job but time and time he wastes money on guys which absolutely kills our ability to field a competitive team.

The worst part is Beni had a .352 BABIP last year. This is around what his normalized OPS should have been last year. Anyone with half a brain could have seen this coming.

Infact his xWOBP (his expected weighted OBA) was .334 according to fangraphs his actual OBP so far this year is you guessed it .334. His slugging and ISO numbers are a bit down and he probably a bit better than his power numbers this year but when we signed him we should known what he was. 

He never was going to be the 122 wRC+ of last year.

Bingo. Never liked the signing, considering Beni never had any deal on that table. He's a 7-8-9 hitter at best. 

[South Side Hit Men]

Both Fangraphs and Baseball Reference indicate Benintendi is a below average left fielder this season, and having his worst season defensively in his career.

Worst defensive season fWAR = 2023 (-10.5 YTD)

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/andrew-benintendi/17901/stats?position=OF

Worst defensive season bWAR = 2023 (-0.8 YTD)

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/beninan01.shtml

[nitetrain8601]

4 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Both Fangraphs and Baseball Reference indicate Benintendi is a below average left fielder this season, and having his worst season defensively in his career.

Worst defensive season fWAR = 2023 (-10.5 YTD)

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/andrew-benintendi/17901/stats?position=OF

Worst defensive season bWAR = 2023 (-0.8 YTD)

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/beninan01.shtml

Basically, no matter how you spin it, this might be the worst contract in Sox history. The sad part is, Beni would be the focus of a lot of negative if he was on almost any other organization. Our team, however, is so rotten, as long as Beni doesn't get himself in trouble, no one is going to blink an eye.

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, nitetrain8601 said:

Basically, no matter how you spin it, this might be the worst contract in Sox history. The sad part is, Beni would be the focus of a lot of negative if he was on almost any other organization. Our team, however, is so rotten, as long as Beni doesn't get himself in trouble, no one is going to blink an eye.

Naw, he’d have to be putting up a sub .600 OPS for this to be one of the worst contracts in team history let alone the worst. It’s probably not even top 5 worst under Hahn alone. Keppinger, Eaton (2022), Leury, LaRoche, Melky, Grandal, Herrera, Nova all somewhere with him, maybe others? Can I throw in Kimbrel/Pollock since that was an option?

[kitekrazy]

Still better than the Grifol signing.

[caulfield12]

29 minutes ago, nitetrain8601 said:

Bingo. Never liked the signing, considering Beni never had any deal on that table. He's a 7-8-9 hitter at best. 

The Yankees right away decided their max was four years.

Bottom 10 in OAA and Bottom 10 or worse in slugging.

Not a great combo for LF.

 

Slugging Leaders

129-130-131.  .352 Benintendi, McNeil, McKinstry

132 Do Smith

133.Jose Abreu

134.K.Hernandez

135. Baez

136. Esteury Ruiz

137. Myles Straw 

138. Alex Call

139. Tim Anderson .284

 

Congrats Rick Hahn...Sox have connections to 4 of the 11 lowest sluggers in baseball playing 81 home games at one of the most homer friendly stadiums in the sport.

And some now want to take on the horrific Baez deal lol.

Straw and Ruiz at least can run and defend and/or relatively cheap.

Addotional congrats for not extending Abreu and moving on from Alex Call I guess?

Edited August 21, 2023 by caulfield12