Fire Chris Getz

[Quin]

I once again posit the question: Would any other team have hired Getz in 2023 or right now?

[Bob Sacamano]

6 minutes ago, Quin said:

I once again posit the question: Would any other team have hired Getz in 2023 or right now?

Absolutely not.

[fathom]

11 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Absolutely not.

Would any other team have hired him after 2024?

[GreenSox]

2 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Maton, Taylor, Sosa.  The majority of the bullpen.  It’s all mostly a pile of suck and they currently make up the team.

Meanwhile, you mentioned Casper Wells and JB Shuck.  Casper Wells played a total of 37 games for the Sox in 2013 and got 71 plate appearances.  Shuck received a lot more play but did have a 0.8 bWAR in his first season with the Sox.  They sucked too but I’m not sure how your post is relevant but mine isn’t.  The suck is all over the roster now.

Hahn inherited an 85 win team and, in only 1 season, led that team to his comfort zone of 63 wins.   He had a  productive offseason with KW bagging Abreu and Hahn making a savvy deal ( one of the 4 he made in his long career) for Eaton.  The team improved 10 games to 73 wins in 2014 with some young players showing promise.

But then Hahn put on the clown hat and clowns shoes, pulled out his magic 8-ball and made series of moves over the next 18 months that set this organization back 5 years (or is it 10+ and counting?). 

And then in mid-season 2016, barely a month after the last of his outrageous moves, he announces that it's time to rebuild.  What a Putz.  
And for all of his decade+ tenure, he had a competitive budget.  
I can't say that Getz is a good GM at this time.  But he isn't Hahn.

Edited April 9 by GreenSox

[Tony]

2 hours ago, WestEddy said:

Dude, the house burned down. You're screaming because your shoes are getting dirty walking around in the ash. 

I'm unsure of what blame you want assigned to him. Blame for his budget getting cut? Blame for having zero starting pitchers to build a team with? Blame for inheriting 3 overpaid slugs who would be injured by game 11? 

Few of his moves worked out for the 2024 season. I acknowledge that every time you start this whole cycle of pretending the previous 20 conversations ever happened. 

 

52 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I answer this every time it's asked. Now. Everybody seems to forget Getz was left with a horrible roster, and pretty much zero pitching staff. Oh, and his budget was cut to nothing. 

A bunch of lesser trades of AAA bullpen arms for AAAA bullpen arms didn't work out. And he has to start having those work out. The Cease trade - the mob loves to acknowledge that JR probably forced that trade in ST to not pay Cease, then pretend that Getz forced JR to force him to make that trade. 

I don't even care about people criticizing moves. Just at least try to make sense. 

I'll be honest, I don't follow. You seem to be saying he should be judged on it now, but then it's just excuses for Getz on why he is in the situation he is in. You say you acknowledge that he made some bad moves in 2024, but in the same breath you add in "But he inherited a bad roster, budget cuts!" 

Jerry didn't completely change his stripes when Getz got here. Rick and Kenny still had to deal with money not being allocated to where they ideally wanted it to go. But just like Getz, Jerry wasn't holding a gun to any White Sox Executive to stay in their job. Getz knew what he was signing up for. 

All I'm asking for is at what point in time do we simply not bring up Rick and Kenny anymore, and this is simply a Getz led team, this is his record and he is responsible for it. Again, I'm actually asking. 

[Milkman delivers]

They’re both awful. You can all stop arguing now.

[Jake]

Right now, I don't really see the point in talking about Getz being fired. On the terms of his hire, he basically cannot be evaluated (of course we can litigate his hiring but it's pissing in the wind). All that being said, I do wonder under what conditions might Getz be fired? I don't see any realistic way he gets heat this season, even if another record gets set. Could he be allowed to let the team be just as bad next season? It might be hard to avoid if you stipulate that the Sox be a bottom 3 payroll. For now, it feels like all he has to do for at least the next couple years is not have all his acquisitions completely and utterly flame out in the minors and avoid any serious drama in the clubhouse etc.

[WestEddy]

33 minutes ago, Quin said:

I once again posit the question: Would any other team have hired Getz in 2023 or right now?

Why not? He seems to be selling a lot of industry people on his vision. 

[fathom]

13 minutes ago, Jake said:

Right now, I don't really see the point in talking about Getz being fired. On the terms of his hire, he basically cannot be evaluated (of course we can litigate his hiring but it's pissing in the wind). All that being said, I do wonder under what conditions might Getz be fired? I don't see any realistic way he gets heat this season, even if another record gets set. Could he be allowed to let the team be just as bad next season? It might be hard to avoid if you stipulate that the Sox be a bottom 3 payroll. For now, it feels like all he has to do for at least the next couple years is not have all his acquisitions completely and utterly flame out in the minors and avoid any serious drama in the clubhouse etc.

If they win 30 games this year and every prospect he’s traded for tanks, I could see it happening.  Of course, Thome would be next I assume.

[Tony]

7 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Why not? He seems to be selling a lot of industry people on his vision. 

How would you sum up what you believe his vision is? 

[fathom]

9 minutes ago, Tony said:

How would you sum up what you believe his vision is? 

He convinced Venable to make the Spider-Man meme choice of WSox over Marlins and he got a fired assistant hitting coach to come to the franchise!

[Tony]

15 minutes ago, fathom said:

He convinced Venable to make the Spider-Man meme choice of WSox over Marlins and he got a fired assistant hitting coach to come to the franchise!

In all seriousness, I'm curious to the response, because to me, the vision seems to be "Rip it all down, advance in technology and infrastructure, build through the draft." 

That's all good. Only issue is when it comes to the statement of "He seems to be selling industry people on his vision..." That "vision" is nothing unique, it's what every good organization has been doing for the last 10 years. Taking a completely glass-half full vision of the tenure of Chris Getz as GM...he's made strides to get the organization out of it's 2004 baseball mindset. Fine, but that isn't getting him hired by other organizations. 

Put another way, your kids don't get extra credit for not doing drugs. It's what they're supposed to be doing, it's the baseline. 

[WestEddy]

26 minutes ago, Tony said:

 

I'll be honest, I don't follow. You seem to be saying he should be judged on it now, but then it's just excuses for Getz on why he is in the situation he is in. You say you acknowledge that he made some bad moves in 2024, but in the same breath you add in "But he inherited a bad roster, budget cuts!" 

Jerry didn't completely change his stripes when Getz got here. Rick and Kenny still had to deal with money not being allocated to where they ideally wanted it to go. But just like Getz, Jerry wasn't holding a gun to any White Sox Executive to stay in their job. Getz knew what he was signing up for. 

All I'm asking for is at what point in time do we simply not bring up Rick and Kenny anymore, and this is simply a Getz led team, this is his record and he is responsible for it. Again, I'm actually asking. 

Your question was when can we say that this is the team he assembled. I said now. You can say that anytime you want. I said nothing about judgement. Certainly not after 10 games. In a rebuild year. So I'm not sure how I "seem" to be saying he should be judged on it now. 

Yes, there were moves that didn't work out. Bailey Horn for Matt Thompson was inconsequential. He's had too many moves that don't matter, that will have to start falling as clear wins. It would have been great if Dominic Fletcher even developed as the strong end of a platoon. He didn't. 

Here, I'll play your game: You seem to be implying that Getz inherited a very strong roster with an unlimited budget, but he made everybody get hurt or play bad. Why are you defending that notion?

Reinsdorf spent when the team was close to competing, which they aren't, right now. Are you saying that Reinsdorf forced Hahn to spend all his money on relievers, and to trade 2 future All-Stars for the right to watch Samardzija suck, then walk away in free agency?

When do we get to stop hearing about Rick and Kenny? How about when the albatross players they signed or drafted 1-4 aren't corner pieces of the team anymore? Or maybe we don't have to keep bringing up Rick and Kenny when we stop pretending that Chris Getz ran the entire organization when Kenny was the VP, Rick was the GM, and they both famously staged a tug of war over the direction of the org. 

I'll happily talk about Getz's bad moves. Trading Semien and Chris Bassit for Samardzija wasn't a bad Chris Getz move. Signing Benintendi to a 5 year contract, then making him suck for his first two years wasn't a bad Chris Getz move. Robert, Yoan and Eloy all getting injured 11 days into the 2024 season wasn't a bad Chris Getz move. Leaving a system with no starting pitching so that Getz had to convert Crochet to starter and sign an iffy Erik Fedde, and look around for other cheap starters wasn't a bad Chris Getz move. No, trading for Corey Julks off the waiver wire didn't add ten wins. Boo Chris Getz!!

Conversely, a relief pitcher having 2 rough outings out of his first 5 isn't a bad Chris Getz move. Trying to get your $20M CF to produce so you can trade him, and getting yet another sub-.600 OPS performance from him isn't a bad Chris Getz move. 

[WestEddy]

28 minutes ago, Tony said:

How would you sum up what you believe his vision is? 

Why do you need me to sum this up? Are you disputing that people around the industry have bought into his vision and have come aboard? 

[WhiteSox2023]

What vision does Getz have?  20/70 or worse…

He just called up Greg Jones as his first outfielder up due to an injury to Benintendi.  I advise not looking at Jones’ AAA stats if you don’t want to puke a little in your mouth…

Edited April 9 by WhiteSox2023

[Tony]

44 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Your question was when can we say that this is the team he assembled. I said now. You can say that anytime you want. I said nothing about judgement. Certainly not after 10 games. In a rebuild year. So I'm not sure how I "seem" to be saying he should be judged on it now. 

Yes, there were moves that didn't work out. Bailey Horn for Matt Thompson was inconsequential. He's had too many moves that don't matter, that will have to start falling as clear wins. It would have been great if Dominic Fletcher even developed as the strong end of a platoon. He didn't. 

Here, I'll play your game: You seem to be implying that Getz inherited a very strong roster with an unlimited budget, but he made everybody get hurt or play bad. Why are you defending that notion?

Reinsdorf spent when the team was close to competing, which they aren't, right now. Are you saying that Reinsdorf forced Hahn to spend all his money on relievers, and to trade 2 future All-Stars for the right to watch Samardzija suck, then walk away in free agency?

When do we get to stop hearing about Rick and Kenny? How about when the albatross players they signed or drafted 1-4 aren't corner pieces of the team anymore? Or maybe we don't have to keep bringing up Rick and Kenny when we stop pretending that Chris Getz ran the entire organization when Kenny was the VP, Rick was the GM, and they both famously staged a tug of war over the direction of the org. 

I'll happily talk about Getz's bad moves. Trading Semien and Chris Bassit for Samardzija wasn't a bad Chris Getz move. Signing Benintendi to a 5 year contract, then making him suck for his first two years wasn't a bad Chris Getz move. Robert, Yoan and Eloy all getting injured 11 days into the 2024 season wasn't a bad Chris Getz move. Leaving a system with no starting pitching so that Getz had to convert Crochet to starter and sign an iffy Erik Fedde, and look around for other cheap starters wasn't a bad Chris Getz move. No, trading for Corey Julks off the waiver wire didn't add ten wins. Boo Chris Getz!!

Conversely, a relief pitcher having 2 rough outings out of his first 5 isn't a bad Chris Getz move. Trying to get your $20M CF to produce so you can trade him, and getting yet another sub-.600 OPS performance from him isn't a bad Chris Getz move. 

See, this is when you start taking your cuckoo pills. Literally no one but you would think I was implying anything of the sort. I used the phrase "I'm actually asking" because I was curious, based on your previous posts, when you felt like Getz could be properly judged on the team that is on the field. It was an actual question. Additionally, we have gone back and forth enough for you to have a baseline understanding that me thinking Getz "inherited a very strong roster with an unlimited budget, but he made everybody get hurt or play bad" couldn't be farther from the truth, but that didn't stop you from somehow think that's what I was implying. 

Then, later in this response, you say "I'll happily talk about Get'z bad moves" and then proceed to not only bring up a bunch of moves made by others, but also list reasons why Getz shouldn't be fully blamed for things (injuries, a system with no pitching) and you still wonder why people question where you stand, then get on a soap box and say "I'VE MADE MYSELF INCREDIBLY CLEAR!" 

I've been asking for clarification from you in this thread because of the reply quoted above. Your "position" is clear as mud, and you're the only person seemingly that doesn't see that. 

[WestEddy]

13 minutes ago, Tony said:

In all seriousness, I'm curious to the response, because to me, the vision seems to be "Rip it all down, advance in technology and infrastructure, build through the draft." 

That's all good. Only issue is when it comes to the statement of "He seems to be selling industry people on his vision..." That "vision" is nothing unique, it's what every good organization has been doing for the last 10 years. Taking a completely glass-half full vision of the tenure of Chris Getz as GM...he's made strides to get the organization out of it's 2004 baseball mindset. Fine, but that isn't getting him hired by other organizations. 

Put another way, your kids don't get extra credit for not doing drugs. It's what they're supposed to be doing, it's the baseline. 

When your kids start on their homework right when they get home from school, ask you to check it, do you ridicule them for just doing what other kids are doing? That's a silly metaphor. 

Yes, kids do get extra credit for not doing drugs. It's borderline abusive to mock them for making great choices when some of those choices are hard to stick to. 

Tell you what, instead of making silly, failed metaphors, why not just talk about the matter at hand? 

That vision is unique when you convince an owner who has ignored that non-unique vision for close to 50 years. So, yeah, if you come into a company and upgrade it to be competitive with everybody else, using non-unique visions of good customer service, a good value for a low price, or whatever business ideals you want to use, that does get credit. It's silly to want Getz to invent some method of digging up graves and turning the dead into great baseball players, or some other untried process.

[WhiteSox2023]

7 minutes ago, Tony said:

See, this is when you start taking your cuckoo pills. Literally no one but you would think I was implying anything of the sort. I used the phrase "I'm actually asking" because I was curious, based on your previous posts, when you felt like Getz could be properly judged on the team that is on the field. It was an actual question. Additionally, we have gone back and forth enough for you to have a baseline understanding that me thinking Getz "inherited a very strong roster with an unlimited budget, but he made everybody get hurt or play bad" couldn't be farther from the truth, but that didn't stop you from someone think that's what I was implying. 

Then, later in this response, you say "I'll happily talk about Get'z bad moves" and then proceed to not only bring up a bunch of moves made by others, but also list reasons why Getz shouldn't be fully blamed for things (injuries, a system with no pitching) you still wonder why people question where you stand, then get on a soap box and say "I'VE MADE MYSELF INCREDIBLY CLEAR!" 

I've been asking for clarification from you in this thread because of the reply quoted above. Your "position" is clear as mud, and you're the only person seemingly that doesn't see that. 

I got that far and noticed the exact same thing and immediately stopped reading that absolute drivel.

[chitownsportsfan]

12 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

 if you come into a company and upgrade it to be competitive with everybody else, using non-unique visions of good customer service, a good value for a low price, or whatever business ideals you want to use, that does get credit. It's silly to want Getz to invent some method of digging up graves and turning the dead into great baseball players, or some other untried process.

Tell you what, instead of making silly, failed metaphors, why not just talk about the matter at hand? 

[Lip Man 1]

Gang it will get worse next season. JR isn't spending a dime given the likely hood of a labor impasse caused by the owners locking out the players before the 2027 season begins.

It sounds like that is going to take out at least some, maybe all of that year.

 

[Quin]

1 hour ago, Tony said:

How would you sum up what you believe his vision is? 

 

[WhiteSox2023]

9 minutes ago, Quin said:

 

[southsider2k5]

3 hours ago, WestEddy said:

He gets years of runway because he's not even 2 years into this rebuild. Teams don't generally win 100 games in their first year of a rebuild. Look it up. 

Teams don't typically lose 121 games in the first year of a rebuild.  Look it up.

[WhiteSox2023]

9 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Teams don't typically lose 121 games in the first year of a rebuild.  Look it up.

Well, you see, that’s all the fault of Kenny and Hahn.  I’m pretty sure Getz didn’t even control his own offseason last year.

[WestEddy]

2 hours ago, Tony said:

I used the phrase "I'm actually asking" because I was curious, based on your previous posts, when you felt like Getz could be properly judged on the team that is on the field.

But that's not the wording you used. You asked when we can admit this is the team he put on the field, which is a different thing. It's a rebuild. They're trying to lose. There are no upper level prospects to develop beyond Sosa and Vargus, and the guys at AAA they're apparently waiting to gain a year on, or something. Are you going to judge Dave Dombrowski on his 119 loss season? Are Al Avila on his 114 loss season? The guy who rebuilt the Astros, lost a ton for 3 years when the Astros became an internet meme?

He's conducting a rebuild. So I think it would make sense to judge him by the rebuild when it starts to take shape. Not on the first losing team he puts on the field. It's like you want somebody to build a house, and you're judging him by the way carries a shovel to the demolition on day 1.