Fire Chris Getz

[fathom]

People would be a lot more freaking forgiving of the team on the field Getz has put out there if the young players he has acquired didn’t perform so badly at their various levels.  Hard to get excited about the future when the prospect depth should be a lot deeper given all the assets he’s traded since he took over.

[WhiteSox2023]

8 minutes ago, fathom said:

People would be a lot more freaking forgiving of the team on the field Getz has put out there if the young players he has acquired didn’t perform so badly at their various levels.  Hard to get excited about the future when the prospect depth should be a lot deeper given all the assets he’s traded since he took over.

You don’t enjoy watching Tauchman, Slater, and Taylor?  I remember the arguments for signing these guys.

A 2-8 record later and still no signs of an offense and I’m still laughing at those arguments.

[WhiteSox2023]

Well, Teel may be called up sooner rather than later.  Lee is hurt.

Edited April 9 by WhiteSox2023

[DirtySox]

9 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Well, Teel may be called up sooner rather than later.  Lee is hurt.

Quero.

[Tony]

16 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

But that's not the wording you used. You asked when we can admit this is the team he put on the field, which is a different thing. It's a rebuild. They're trying to lose. There are no upper level prospects to develop beyond Sosa and Vargus, and the guys at AAA they're apparently waiting to gain a year on, or something. Are you going to judge Dave Dombrowski on his 119 loss season? Are Al Avila on his 114 loss season? The guy who rebuilt the Astros, lost a ton for 3 years when the Astros became an internet meme?

He's conducting a rebuild. So I think it would make sense to judge him by the rebuild when it starts to take shape. Not on the first losing team he puts on the field. It's like you want somebody to build a house, and you're judging him by the way carries a shovel to the demolition on day 1. 

Where have you found, specifically in this thread, I said he should be judged on Day 1? You're making the assumption that's what I think, but I've given you no evidence to think that. You're projecting that, and instead of answering the question with a simple answer, you're assuming I think Getz should be judged on Day 1, when I was simply asking YOU when is an appropriate time to say "This is the team Getz assembled." 

It was a fairly simple and direct question, yet you IMMEDIATELY got defensive. 

[Tony]

16 minutes ago, fathom said:

People would be a lot more freaking forgiving of the team on the field Getz has put out there if the young players he has acquired didn’t perform so badly at their various levels.  Hard to get excited about the future when the prospect depth should be a lot deeper given all the assets he’s traded since he took over.

Eh, I'm not even sure I agree with that fully. The packages he got back were light in many cases, the only deal he can really hang his hat on up to this point is Crochet, and let's be honest, it's not like he was a hard commodity to trade. But he seemingly did about as well as expected. 

But at the end of the day, there are two major "knocks" working against him that are obvious to everyone.

1. In his first year as GM he set the all-time record for losses. Not a great start to your GM career, don't care who it is. It's a bad look, but it's something he can bounce back from. 

2. The bigger issue (IMO) is the overall perception issue, the "hire from within" approach Jerry decided to employe and the entire "Don't want to waste a year" fiasco. He's in a job that is very public facing and a large majority of the fan base thinks he isn't qualified for the job he's in. So he's already working from behind when it comes to public perception.

Every move is going to have somewhat more doubt attached to it because of that, and a 43-129 record as GM isn't helping matters. 

[Tnetennba]

4 hours ago, Quin said:

I once again posit the question: Would any other team have hired Getz in 2023 or right now?

Would any team put him in charge of minor league development after his brief tenue in the KC FO? I highly doubt it.

[WestEddy]

31 minutes ago, Tony said:

Where have you found, specifically in this thread, I said he should be judged on Day 1? You're making the assumption that's what I think, but I've given you no evidence to think that. You're projecting that, and instead of answering the question with a simple answer, you're assuming I think Getz should be judged on Day 1, when I was simply asking YOU when is an appropriate time to say "This is the team Getz assembled." 

It was a fairly simple and direct question, yet you IMMEDIATELY got defensive. 

Ho hum. And where did I say that Getz could be judged by this current lineup? I clearly qualified my statement with "here, I'll play the game you're playing", and then surmised you thought Getz was left a fantastic roster to build from. 

Once the prospects he's acquired start feeding up onto the parent team, once he gets to start making actual acquisitions of players who could be considered part of a competitive team, that's when you're going to start be be able to judge his work. 

You're talking about crazy town after you're putting words in my mouth. I'm not defensive. I really don't understand the purpose of misrepresenting what I say, then admonishing me for something I'm not doing. 

[fathom]

19 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Ho hum. And where did I say that Getz could be judged by this current lineup? I clearly qualified my statement with "here, I'll play the game you're playing", and then surmised you thought Getz was left a fantastic roster to build from. 

Once the prospects he's acquired start feeding up onto the parent team, once he gets to start making actual acquisitions of players who could be considered part of a competitive team, that's when you're going to start be be able to judge his work. 

You're talking about crazy town after you're putting words in my mouth. I'm not defensive. I really don't understand the purpose of misrepresenting what I say, then admonishing me for something I'm not doing. 

We’ve seen 3 prospects so far that he’s acquired in the majors, and it’s been unimaginably bad.  He’s traded 3 of the most covered pitchers at the time they were dealt, and he only has 1 consensus top 100 prospect to show for it.  
 

Crochet/Cease/Fedde should have brought you back way more than what he got.

Edited April 10 by fathom

[Tnetennba]

3 hours ago, Tony said:

In all seriousness, I'm curious to the response, because to me, the vision seems to be "Rip it all down, advance in technology and infrastructure, build through the draft." 

That's all good. Only issue is when it comes to the statement of "He seems to be selling industry people on his vision..." That "vision" is nothing unique, it's what every good organization has been doing for the last 10 years. Taking a completely glass-half full vision of the tenure of Chris Getz as GM...he's made strides to get the organization out of it's 2004 baseball mindset. Fine, but that isn't getting him hired by other organizations. 

Put another way, your kids don't get extra credit for not doing drugs. It's what they're supposed to be doing, it's the baseline. 

If that really is his vision, great, but like you said, its nothing unique. There is nothing he has done for the positive that any new hire wouldn't be inclined to do as well. But part of building through the draft, beyond trading players for prospects, is to leverage the Major League roster to find as many "diamonds in the rough" to build for the future. His trades and roster management don't point to a GM who is proactively excecuting a master plan to find and develop as many players as possible. This has all been discussed ad nauseum, but the points remain valid. Getz's failings to this point are so glaring that it strains credulity, making it rather difficult to believe that he is bringing about positive change behind the scenes.

[WhiteSox2023]

12 minutes ago, fathom said:

We’ve seen 3 prospects so far that he’s acquired in the majors, and it’s been unimaginably bad.  He’s traded 3 of the most covered pitchers at the time they were dealt, and he only has 1 consensus top 100 prospect to show for it.  
 

Crochet/Cease/Fedde should have brought you back way more than what he got.

Those trades were Kenny’s/Hahn’s fault.  🤣

[WestEddy]

54 minutes ago, fathom said:

We’ve seen 3 prospects so far that he’s acquired in the majors, and it’s been unimaginably bad.  He’s traded 3 of the most covered pitchers at the time they were dealt, and he only has 1 consensus top 100 prospect to show for it.  
 

Crochet/Cease/Fedde should have brought you back way more than what he got.

The Crochet trade was a great return. Basing a trade on prospect rankings is silly, Montgomery hasn't played any pro ball before this year to be "ranked". Meidroth is the type of player that won't get ranked and is extremely valuable. 

Cease wasn't getting a bidding war at the 2023 TDL and his complete 2023 line didn't excite anybody. Please tell me how you know Getz could have gotten a lot better. I also heard that San Diego and St. Louis were going to get loads more back when they traded Cease and Fedde, respectively, and they're both with their teams. St. Louis was even looking to shed payroll, and couldn't. I guess they couldn't do better. 

I think we all understand the issues Vargas had last year. He just had two hits tonight, one of them clutch in the top of the 9th, so SSS and recency bias, looks like we won that trade. 

[WestEddy]

55 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Those trades were Kenny’s/Hahn’s fault.  🤣

It's almost like you're not even trying to make sense. 

[WhiteSox2023]

2-9 record and on pace to win 29 games.  No other team would keep this clown around to possibly set the loss record twice in a row.

[WhiteSox2023]

10 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

It's almost like you're not even trying to make sense. 

It’s the new excuse for everything.  Haven’t you heard?

Edited April 10 by WhiteSox2023

[Sleepy Harold]

1 hour ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Well, Teel may be called up sooner rather than later.  Lee is hurt.

 

1 hour ago, DirtySox said:

Quero.

Narváez got pulled from the game in Birmingham tonight.

[fathom]

19 minutes ago, Sleepy Harold said:

 

Narváez got pulled from the game in Birmingham tonight.

Fegan confirming he’s getting called up

[WestEddy]

8 minutes ago, fathom said:

Fegan confirming he’s getting called up

2nd time's the charm

[caulfield12]

4 hours ago, fathom said:

We’ve seen 3 prospects so far that he’s acquired in the majors, and it’s been unimaginably bad.  He’s traded 3 of the most covered pitchers at the time they were dealt, and he only has 1 consensus top 100 prospect to show for it.  
 

Crochet/Cease/Fedde should have brought you back way more than what he got.

Braden Montgomery might have been left off of ONE list, but that's pretty much a solid middle 100's MiLB prospect list addition if ever there was one (plus the Red Sox are MUCH more trusted industry-wide on prospect identification and/or development in general).

Of course, the problem is with the 6 TJS (and counting), as well as the collapse of Colson Montgomery.

Any rise by Grant Taylor at best cancels some of the Montgomery slippage out.

[tray]

Narvaez instead of Quero or Teel for that matter, is just more of the same...another 30 something player (33 actually)  that is a temporary plug-in by Getz seeking an easy fix to try to stabilize the line-up and probably, the tenure of his job.   Agree or disagree with his moves, this guy has no balls whatsoever. His goal is to improve the team slightly from the worst record in history.

So anyway, I wasted my time looking at Narvaez BA over the last 3 seasons.. .206, .211, 154.  ....way off his days with the WSox.  This guy is toast. Turn the page already. Give the fans something interesting to watch...not these washed up veterans who can no longer even run the bases.

[caulfield12]

5 hours ago, WestEddy said:

The Crochet trade was a great return. Basing a trade on prospect rankings is silly, Montgomery hasn't played any pro ball before this year to be "ranked". Meidroth is the type of player that won't get ranked and is extremely valuable. 

Cease wasn't getting a bidding war at the 2023 TDL and his complete 2023 line didn't excite anybody. Please tell me how you know Getz could have gotten a lot better. I also heard that San Diego and St. Louis were going to get loads more back when they traded Cease and Fedde, respectively, and they're both with their teams. St. Louis was even looking to shed payroll, and couldn't. I guess they couldn't do better. 

I think we all understand the issues Vargas had last year. He just had two hits tonight, one of them clutch in the top of the 9th, so SSS and recency bias, looks like we won that trade. 

It was a "solid" or fair return at the time.

Nobody else at SoxTalk thought it was great, because we didn't get Campbell, Anthony or Mayer.

Those were the three true prizes of the Red Sox system.

In the end, they need to get at least 2 3+ fWAR players out of Teel/Montgomery/Meidroth to "break even," but ask nearly every big league GM if they'd take one in their prime 6+ fWAR ace/TOR pitcher or two 3 fWAR prospects?

Ask everyone if they would have rather gotten any of those Big 3 players + Teel or Big 3 + Montgomery and almost everyone will give up Gonzalez and Meidroth on the back end of that trade for the close to "can't miss" Top 10-15 MiLB prospect...

Not to mention there was SOME not inconsiderable risk attached to Braden Montgomery's ankle/foot injury from last season at Texas A&M.

 

Fwiw, I think we had this same debate a week or so ago about Jake Eder and Burger and the description utilizing the adjective "great"... but I will refrain from calling anyone a "liar" since it's impossible to prove or quantify or verify at this point.

And you can certainly argue that NONE of those three players were available or at least MADE AVAILABLE to the White Sox for Crochet, but we'll never really know the "real/objective" truth here.

Edited April 10 by caulfield12

[Chicago White Sox]

6 hours ago, tray said:

Narvaez instead of Quero or Teel for that matter, is just more of the same...another 30 something player (33 actually)  that is a temporary plug-in by Getz seeking an easy fix to try to stabilize the line-up and probably, the tenure of his job.   Agree or disagree with his moves, this guy has no balls whatsoever. His goal is to improve the team slightly from the worst record in history.

So anyway, I wasted my time looking at Narvaez BA over the last 3 seasons.. .206, .211, 154.  ....way off his days with the WSox.  This guy is toast. Turn the page already. Give the fans something interesting to watch...not these washed up veterans who can no longer even run the bases.

His goal is to actually develop prospects and not be bullied by some keyboard warrior into rushing them so said fan can be “entertained”.

[WestEddy]

5 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

It was a "solid" or fair return at the time.

Nobody else at SoxTalk thought it was great, because we didn't get Campbell, Anthony or Mayer.

Those were the three true prizes of the Red Sox system.

In the end, they need to get at least 2 3+ fWAR players out of Teel/Montgomery/Meidroth to "break even," but ask nearly every big league GM if they'd take one in their prime 6+ fWAR ace/TOR pitcher or two 3 fWAR prospects?

Ask everyone if they would have rather gotten any of those Big 3 players + Teel or Big 3 + Montgomery and almost everyone will give up Gonzalez and Meidroth on the back end of that trade for the close to "can't miss" Top 10-15 MiLB prospect...

Not to mention there was SOME not inconsiderable risk attached to Braden Montgomery's ankle/foot injury from last season at Texas A&M.

 

Fwiw, I think we had this same debate a week or so ago about Jake Eder and Burger and the description utilizing the adjective "great"... but I will refrain from calling anyone a "liar" since it's impossible to prove or quantify or verify at this point.

And you can certainly argue that NONE of those three players were available or at least MADE AVAILABLE to the White Sox for Crochet, but we'll never really know the "real/objective" truth here.

Teel was one of Boston's "big 4", and by July, Montgomery would have been one of Boston's "big 5". I am calling the return "great", so you can quote me in your next argument over semantics. 

The mob on this site is predisposed to see any move in a bad light. People complained about obtaining a catcher "because we already have one in the system". 

I don't generally get into conversations with a group of GMs, and I'm guessing you don't either. I suppose maybe one of those top prospects would have been available had Crochet already been signed to that sweet extension by the White Sox, but Crochet still carried a level of injury risk that normal 1:1 aces don't.

[WestEddy]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

His goal is to actually develop prospects and not be bullied by some keyboard warrior into rushing them so said fan can be “entertained”.

And then scream that we failed in developing said prospect after the first 0-13 series. 

[southsider2k5]

15 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

And then scream that we failed in developing said prospect after the first 0-13 series. 

 

17 hours ago, WestEddy said:

Oh, and he's 1-13 with 4 Ks and an error in LF for the Pirates. Yes, we should have run through walls to acquire him as a centerpiece of the next White Sox dynasty.