WestEddy Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 3 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Even if Santos were injured and set to miss the whole season, he would have some value. Maybe value in that all human life has value. In baseball terms, though, he was a lotto ticket the White Sox worked with and corrected something to make him effective. If he's getting cut, he's probably back to maybe just above lotto ticket. There are so many other guys who could throw a ball right now that would be a better use of a 40 man spot than Santos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 4 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Maybe value in that all human life has value. In baseball terms, though, he was a lotto ticket the White Sox worked with and corrected something to make him effective. If he's getting cut, he's probably back to maybe just above lotto ticket. There are so many other guys who could throw a ball right now that would be a better use of a 40 man spot than Santos. WAT? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: WAT? If Santos is injured and needs surgery, I don't think anybody wants to tie up a roster spot with somebody who is essentially useless for a year. I'm going on Liptak's suggesting that forearm strain means TJS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Harold Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 AKA, make a better offer BAL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 3 minutes ago, WestEddy said: If Santos is injured and needs surgery, I don't think anybody wants to tie up a roster spot with somebody who is essentially useless for a year. I'm going on Liptak's suggesting that forearm strain means TJS. He would only be wasting a roster spot during the off-season if he ends up missing significant time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 1 minute ago, Sleepy Harold said: AKA, make a better offer BAL If Baltimore doesn't trade for Cease they'll just waltz into another division title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, WestEddy said: If Santos is injured and needs surgery, I don't think anybody wants to tie up a roster spot with somebody who is essentially useless for a year. I'm going on Liptak's suggesting that forearm strain means TJS. I think most orgs would be happy to hold Santos on their 40 man through the winter (he can sit on the 60 day IL all season and not impact the 40 man), in hopes of him being the same guy he was in 2023 in 2025. He has 5 more years of control. 2025 would still be pre-arb. Of course, we don't know that he actually has a forearm strain significant enough for TJS. What we've heard from Getz is that he's rehabbing and doing well. Do we believe it? Meh. I think its fair to be skeptical. I also think its a huge leap to just write him off and call him valueless and not worth a 40 man spot. Edited December 5, 2023 by ChiSox59 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 Just now, bmags said: If Baltimore doesn't trade for Cease they'll just waltz into another division title. And waltz right out of the playoffs because pitching wins in the October. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said: And waltz right out of the playoffs because pitching wins in the October. So buy your playoff rotation at the deadline like the Rangers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: And waltz right out of the playoffs because pitching wins in the October. I think that's what he meant. They waltz into a division title and that's as far as their season goes. Edit: nvm Edited December 5, 2023 by Bob Sacamano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 Just now, bmags said: So buy your playoff rotation at the deadline like the Rangers. Didn't Orioles try that strategy by trading for Jack Flaherty? lol 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 2 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: Didn't Orioles try that strategy by trading for Jack Flaherty? lol Yeah maybe this time find the actual mercenary pitcher. Gonna guess Scherzer doesn't move at the deadline again though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 8 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: I think most orgs would be happy to hold Santos on their 40 man through the winter All would be revealed in the medical reports. I guess you're right about the 40-man, but I think we'd be selling low on Santos right now. He'd be a nice trade piece in July. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 10 minutes ago, WestEddy said: All would be revealed in the medical reports. I guess you're right about the 40-man, but I think we'd be selling low on Santos right now. He'd be a nice trade piece in July. I completely agree with the bolded, and said as much already. I would hold for now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 I don’t know if Santos is even tradable at the moment because of that elbow issue. But if he is, they probably should move him. Always sell high on relievers, especially when the team sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 I guess that since the Cubs and Reds know they're out on Fedde, they have to move on to table scraps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whisox05 Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalChiSox Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 20 minutes ago, Whisox05 said: I feel there's been alot of smoke re BAL the last couple days, between this, Morosi and Getz saying we are not "very close" as opposed to not close. My gut sense is there is tentative agreement on the top two pieces, but haggling over the third piece and I think with even more pitching coming (Fedde, maybe Flaherty), they are going all in on BALs positional talent, even for the third piece. My gut sense is they want Bradfield as the third piece, as a future speedy, defense first CFer in place by the time Robert is moved in a couple years so they don't have to fill that hole. Getz seems to prefer D and speed so it makes sense. I think the Sox would accept Hjerstad/Cowser, Norby and Bradfield if Elias can actually grow a pair. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 I feel like the rest of the ALE showing a pulse would help. I now hope Ohtani lands in Toronto and Soto and the Japanese pitcher end up in New York. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 6 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said: I feel there's been alot of smoke re BAL the last couple days, between this, Morosi and Getz saying we are not "very close" as opposed to not close. My gut sense is there is tentative agreement on the top two pieces, but haggling over the third piece and I think with even more pitching coming (Fedde, maybe Flaherty), they are going all in on BALs positional talent, even for the third piece. My gut sense is they want Bradfield as the third piece, as a future speedy, defense first CFer in place by the time Robert is moved in a couple years so they don't have to fill that hole. Getz seems to prefer D and speed so it makes sense. I think the Sox would accept Hjerstad/Cowser, Norby and Bradfield if Elias can actually grow a pair. The reverse of this is the Padres going from a Top 3 system all the way down into the 20s desperately chasing a title. Elias watched what Preller did wrong, realizes he doesn't have the leeway to carry 6-7 $100+ million deals simultaneously and has to carefully approach each season just like the Rays do...knowing exactly when to dump aging vets for the next wave of youth. They can't really afford to be all-in when the risks are too high...the Blue Jays, Yankees and Red Sox, otoh, are under the constant pressure of expectations from their fan base and desperately need to win now. I you were Elias, with THAT owner...how convinced are you really that Dylan Cease absolutely puts you over the top? You might believe another elite/relatively cheap Mullins year is much more likely to lead to the promised land than wiping out approximately half your farm system for Cease AND Robert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 2 hours ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said: I don’t know if Santos is even tradable at the moment because of that elbow issue. But if he is, they probably should move him. Always sell high on relievers, especially when the team sucks. Even if it turns out that everything is fine by February, I have to imagine he can't pass a physical right now and that alone will render him basically untradeable. What competing team is going to give you anything of value for a guy who might be healthy this year but where that can't be guaranteed? If you want to sell high on him, show me that he can pitch 10 more innings in the bigs first and talk to me in May once I am confident that he can pitch and pass a physical. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalChiSox Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 32 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: The reverse of this is the Padres going from a Top 3 system all the way down into the 20s desperately chasing a title. Elias watched what Preller did wrong, realizes he doesn't have the leeway to carry 6-7 $100+ million deals simultaneously and has to carefully approach each season just like the Rays do...knowing exactly when to dump aging vets for the next wave of youth. They can't really afford to be all-in when the risks are too high...the Blue Jays, Yankees and Red Sox, otoh, are under the constant pressure of expectations from their fan base and desperately need to win now. I you were Elias, with THAT owner...how convinced are you really that Dylan Cease absolutely puts you over the top? You might believe another elite/relatively cheap Mullins year is much more likely to lead to the promised land than wiping out approximately half your farm system for Cease AND Robert. I dont think they would empty their system for both. I think their primary concern right now is just Cease and it will only require 2 Top 100s plus a decent third piece. That won't put much of a dent in them. Just for that I don't see what the issue is for Elias. He has alot of duplicative talent in multiple spots which is not an efficient allocation of resources, certainly not something "the Rays would do" as you said. I dont see what's the big deal about giving up a RF and a 2B when you have like 4-5 quality IFers and a couple quality OFers. Let's assume for the sake of argument that he doesn't want to give up Cowser. But Cowsers profile if things break right is basically Beni circa 2018 with BOS before his power disappeared...a good all around player who hits for good AVG, good OBP, good D and also 20 HRs. That's a very nice 3 WAR player but ultimately not a massive loss for them. They've got savages everywhere. Same for Hjerstad. If he pans out, it's like .260/.325 with 25-30 HRs and a good arm in RF. Again, good player but not a killer loss for BAL. Cease may not win them the WS but he almost certainly could win them a series or even two. Their rotation, if not supplemented by legit talent, is not built to win anything in a short series where its your Top 3 vs their Top 3. They will not win a series against an opponent with two really good pitchers, cause that's 4 starts right there where they'll be the underdog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 Just to note, Dylan Cease started 16 games against the eventual playoff teams. He lasted through 5 in 13 of those. The White Sox went 8-8 in those starts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Just to note, Dylan Cease started 16 games against the eventual playoff teams. He lasted through 5 in 13 of those. The White Sox went 8-8 in those starts. This part is irrelevant because we fuckin sucked. What were his other numbers like? Edit: scratch that. it's amazing we won 8 games Edited December 5, 2023 by Bob Sacamano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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