Lorenzen signs w/Rangers 1/$4.5 million

[WhiteSox2023]

2 hours ago, WestEddy said:

Martin Maldonado was signed January 5th. Chris Getz must have done a great job this off-season if you're down to arguing that he should have signed Maldonado a day later. Just because. 

He shouldn’t have signed Maldonado at all.  Because he’s bad.  But you know this already.

[Texsox]

Getz "we don't have enough MLB talent to field a roster."

JR "what are you going to do?"

Getz "wait until I can find some bargains during spring training. We'll save a few million dollars. Who cares how good they are?! The strategy is to just take whatever pieces are still around."

 

[WhiteSox2023]

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

Getz "we don't have enough MLB talent to field a roster."

JR "what are you going to do?"

Getz "wait until I can find some bargains during spring training. We'll save a few million dollars. Who cares how good they are?! The strategy is to just take whatever pieces are still around."

 

They don’t have enough talent to compete with the players that Getz chose to sign, so what’s the difference?

[A-Train to 35th]

On 3/21/2024 at 7:10 AM, WhiteSox2023 said:

Or the key was for wise GMs to wait for the free agent prices to crash.  Why would Getz be in such a rush to sign anyone when the Sox are a non-contender but the champion Rangers were smart enough to wait it out?  It was not vital for Getz to rush to sign anyone.  We saw Hahn do this all the time in the past as well.  He rushed to sign the low to mid-level free agents that he wanted early, and better players ended up signing for less later on.  Getz did the same this offseason.

SoxTalk is great, but if Getz didn't sign anyone and waited this long to sign a SP, this board would have been all over him. You can't go into Spring training with 1 legitimate starter, especially when you know that you were planning on trading him.

Sox had to sort thru the available the SP's within their expected budget and get them signed early so they can work with the new catchers in Spring training.   

[A-Train to 35th]

On 3/21/2024 at 8:36 AM, WestEddy said:

Who did Getz sign that would have precluded them signing Lorenzen? Supposedly, they checked in on him last week. He was either still too expensive, or wanted to go to a contender. And, are you actually suggesting Getz should have just waited until the very last week of spring training to start building a team? I really don't think "smart GM's" were anticipating how this market was going to shake out.

I could see you being angry that the Sox didn't pick Lorenzen up at this price. They signed Fedde on the 13th, and Flexen on the 30th of December. Neither of those felt like, "jumping the gun", and seeing what's left on the market, were prudent to get any bodies they wanted to work with.

Agree, I think you summed it up with........ "or wanted to go to a contender".

[A-Train to 35th]

On 3/21/2024 at 8:56 AM, WhiteSox2023 said:

The answer is that we don’t know.  It’s only for one year.  Perhaps he would take the extra $1.5 million guaranteed that @Bob Sacamano just suggested over playing for non-guaranteed incentives on a contender.  We also don’t know what the Sox were offering, or if they even made him a contract offer.

Or maybe he wanted to play for a World Series winner with great defense and hitting in a 1 year proof it deal. If he ends up with a winning record and a nice stat line he'll be able to sign a guaranteed multimillion dollar contract.

Or maybe as you suggest we don't know anything and are are just speculating.

Edited March 22 by A-Train to 35th
sp

[caulfield12]

Rumors flying that Montgomery is going to end up back with the Yankees after vowing never to return after having been left out of the post-season playoff rotation in the past...money talks.

That certainly caused the Rangers to increase their interest in getting a deal done with Lorenzen before there were no options remaining in FA.

[Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm]

On 3/21/2024 at 10:28 AM, vilehoopster said:

The Fedde signing is looking a hell of a lot better than $325 million for Yamamota. I know the Sox hit him really hard his ST game, and wasn't he rocked in other ST appearances. Then he got shelled like a peanut yesterday. I'm more than fine with $15 million for Fedde; it could be bust, but could end up being a steal. 

Fedde is the JR/Sox way of doing things. Low Cost. Low risk. Low reward. 

Best case, he throws 180 innings and makes all his starts. Worst case, he sucks and it only cost $15m. 

[WestEddy]

9 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

He shouldn’t have signed Maldonado at all.  Because he’s bad.  But you know this already.

So it really doesn't matter whether he signed January 5th, or later. 

But signing Maldonado had nothing to do with signing any pitchers. 

[WhiteSox2023]

24 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

So it really doesn't matter whether he signed January 5th, or later. 

But signing Maldonado had nothing to do with signing any pitchers. 

If you wait to sign guys, especially old guys like Maldonado that have declined drastically and no other teams want, you can likely get them cheaper.  I hope Getz learns this when he gets to an offseason that actually matters.  If Pillar makes the team, he will be a good example.  Getz could have signed Michael Taylor, a much better player, for $1 million more.  As long as JR is the owner and we have no hope of signing top tier free agents, these veteran signings will actually matter.  And there’s a big difference in WAR between Pillar and Taylor.  Getz literally cant afford to make bad decisions like that one.

Edited March 22 by WhiteSox2023

[WestEddy]

26 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

If you wait to sign guys, especially old guys like Maldonado that have declined drastically and no other teams want, you can likely get them cheaper.  I hope Getz learns this when he gets to an offseason that actually matters.  If Pillar makes the team, he will be a good example.  Getz could have signed Michael Taylor, a much better player, for $1 million more.  As long as JR is the owner and we have no hope of signing top tier free agents, these veteran signings will actually matter.  And there’s a big difference in WAR between Pillar and Taylor.  Getz literally cant afford to make bad decisions like that one.

Yeah, but Michael A. Taylor played for the Royals. Everybody here agrees that makes him the worst player to acquire. You don't even know whether Taylor wanted to come in to be the weak half of a platoon. 

You wait to sign guys who don't matter and are filler. If somebody cuts Jose Ureña at the end of spring training and you have space? Sure, stow him at AAA. If you think Chris Flexen is a guy you can refocus and get throwing ground balls again, no, you don't wait and hope. That's what an idiot would do. Getz obviously had guys he targeted. I don't like the Maldonado signing. I don't care when it happened. He's here. I'm not going to have a stroke every single day because of his signing. I'm not going to look for random reasons why the signing was bad.

Is it bad? I don't know. I haven't been coaching or managing baseball teams my whole adult life. If he wants a steadying influence on the field, then go for it. I'm not going to pretend I know more than industry lifers because I bought a ball cap. 

[Harold's Leg Lift]

STOP SIGNING FORMER ROYALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  SIGN MORE FORMER ROYALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Texsox]

11 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

They don’t have enough talent to compete with the players that Getz chose to sign, so what’s the difference?

Not signing anyone and rushing someone into the lineup. Having to give up the future to field anything today.

He signed players when he had the most options. They aren't spending any money that will hamper their future. Why wait until you have little or no options? 

[Texsox]

22 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

  Getz could have signed Michael Taylor, a much better player, for $1 million more.  

Just a general comment on these types of assumptions that we all make. 

Without information not available to the public we don't know that's true. We don't know if a team made an offer that was rejected. Just looking at what guys signed for with another team doesn't automatically mean they would have played for just any team at that price. 

I still believe shopping with more options available is better than waiting until the shelves are mostly bare. Especially considering that we generally believe every other team is better at player evaluation. We're going to wait until they all take their pick and somehow believe we're going to do better with the rejects? 

 

[Texsox]

Or saying it another way.

Whether drafting rookies or veterans why would you want a later pick? I don't want to go fourth in the draft, let's go lower after everyone else picks, then we'll take whoever they don't want. We're not that good at development that we can take other team's rejects, develope them, and beat those teams. 

One thing I'm certain of after fifty years or following this organization, for every time we actually "fix'd 'em" (Loaiza) there are dozens and dozens that really did suck so bad no one else would sign them. 

[Balta1701]

28 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Or saying it another way.

Whether drafting rookies or veterans why would you want a later pick? I don't want to go fourth in the draft, let's go lower after everyone else picks, then we'll take whoever they don't want. We're not that good at development that we can take other team's rejects, develope them, and beat those teams. 

One thing I'm certain of after fifty years or following this organization, for every time we actually "fix'd 'em" (Loaiza) there are dozens and dozens that really did suck so bad no one else would sign them. 

Whats ironic is that this is actually a pretty good description of how Reinsdorf viewed the draft for years and how he still treats the international signing market.

[WestEddy]

2 hours ago, Texsox said:

Just a general comment on these types of assumptions that we all make. 

Without information not available to the public we don't know that's true. We don't know if a team made an offer that was rejected. Just looking at what guys signed for with another team doesn't automatically mean they would have played for just any team at that price. 

I still believe shopping with more options available is better than waiting until the shelves are mostly bare. Especially considering that we generally believe every other team is better at player evaluation. We're going to wait until they all take their pick and somehow believe we're going to do better with the rejects? 

There's also the dichotomy of "the atmosphere around this team is so bad, free agents won't even sign here", but "sign all the free agents!!" 

Michael A. Taylor is still a league average starting centerfielder. Getting a starting CF job probably helps him with his next contract. Somebody watches Taylor put up 2 WAR playing CF regularly, he's a CF option next off-season for somebody. But if he walks into a situation where he changes to being the weak half of a platoon at an easier position, he's limiting his options going forward. 

Why would Taylor take that contract with the White Sox? The guy's already made $20 million in his career. Why take another $1 million to ride the bench for a bad team, then uproot his life in 4 months, then not see his family regularly for 2-3 months because he's traded who knows where?

[Texsox]

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Whats ironic is that this is actually a pretty good description of how Reinsdorf viewed the draft for years and how he still treats the international signing market.

I guess he's doing what the fans want. 

[caulfield12]

5 hours ago, WestEddy said:

There's also the dichotomy of "the atmosphere around this team is so bad, free agents won't even sign here", but "sign all the free agents!!" 

Michael A. Taylor is still a league average starting centerfielder. Getting a starting CF job probably helps him with his next contract. Somebody watches Taylor put up 2 WAR playing CF regularly, he's a CF option next off-season for somebody. But if he walks into a situation where he changes to being the weak half of a platoon at an easier position, he's limiting his options going forward. 

Why would Taylor take that contract with the White Sox? The guy's already made $20 million in his career. Why take another $1 million to ride the bench for a bad team, then uproot his life in 4 months, then not see his family regularly for 2-3 months because he's traded who knows where?

The only reason would be 1) not being able to sign with a contender or getting no promises on playing time and/or 2) not prioritizing playing with a contender (presumably after a TDL deal) vs. other factors.

Edited March 23 by caulfield12

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 3/23/2024 at 7:44 AM, Texsox said:

Just a general comment on these types of assumptions that we all make. 

Without information not available to the public we don't know that's true. We don't know if a team made an offer that was rejected. Just looking at what guys signed for with another team doesn't automatically mean they would have played for just any team at that price. 

I still believe shopping with more options available is better than waiting until the shelves are mostly bare. Especially considering that we generally believe every other team is better at player evaluation. We're going to wait until they all take their pick and somehow believe we're going to do better with the rejects? 

 

There are no hard and fast rules that apply to every off season.

Part of a GMs job is to read the terrain. Preller correctly read JRs and the Sox terrain. They wouldn't take the risk of Cease getting injured into the season. You watched him pitch well in spring and you make good, not great, offer for him. Sox fans did not read the terrain and expected too much for him forgetting who runs the team and how payroll was being cut.

This off season with RSN problems causing havoc with many teams bottom lines meant free agent activity had a good chance of being slower which will always lower prices but moreso on the older less talented players.

I'm not arguing the way Getz did things is right or wrong, but the arguments here appear that they are treating every off season the same and that is not the case.

 

[caulfield12]

11 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

There are no hard and fast rules that apply to every off season.

Part of a GMs job is to read the terrain. Preller correctly read JRs and the Sox terrain. They wouldn't take the risk of Cease getting injured into the season. You watched him pitch well in spring and you make good, not great, offer for him. Sox fans did not read the terrain and expected too much for him forgetting who runs the team and how payroll was being cut.

This off season with RSN problems causing havoc with many teams bottom lines meant free agent activity had a good chance of being slower which will always lower prices but moreso on the older less talented players.

I'm not arguing the way Getz did things is right or wrong, but the arguments here appear that they are treating every off season the same and that is not the case.

 

And it really does seem like many teams were collectively firing a shot across the bow of the SMS Boras...

Almost all of the late signees were tied to him, and got fewer years and overall contract dollars than nearly everyone expected going back to November.