southsider2k5 Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 2 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Sold high would mean the return was good. That’s questionable at best. Jake Eder is 25 years old and currently has an ERA over 5 with a 1.60 WHIP in Double AA. Not really. It means they sold at peak value. The return is a different story. They bought low on Eder. And if you look around Eders trend line as he gets innings back on his arm, he's trending forward. Last 3 starts are a 4.02 era, 23 Ks in 16 innings including a .421 BABiP 5 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxmb35 Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 (edited) 4 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Sold high would mean the return was good. That’s questionable at best. Jake Eder is 25 years old and currently has an ERA over 5 with a 1.60 WHIP in Double AA. Sold high as in the amount of whining over trading Burger was NEVER justified (and that we sold at his peak value). The return would be even worse if we waited to trade him this year. Edited May 9 by Chisoxmb35 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said: Not really. It means they sold at peak value. The return is a different story. They bought low on Eder. And if you look around Eders trend line as he gets innings back on his arm, he's trending forward. Last 3 starts are a 4.02 era, 23 Ks in 16 innings including a .421 BABiP I can go with this. The problem is that he’s a few months from turning 26 and repeating AA. He needs to figure it out soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baseball_gal_aly Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 (edited) 4 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: I can go with this. The problem is that he’s a few months from turning 26 and repeating AA. He needs to figure it out soon. He turns 26 in October. He has all season. Also, I maintain that sticking real pitching prospects in Charlotte is dumb as it accomplishes nothing but messing with their confidence. Edited May 9 by baseball_gal_aly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 1 minute ago, WhiteSox2023 said: I can go with this. The problem is that he’s a few months from turning 26 and repeating AA. He needs to figure it out soon. Look if they were looking at the pre-injury Jake Eder, there is no way in hell that Jake Burger is enough to get him. We got a scratch and dent discount on a potential lefty starter they wouldn't have had a chance at otherwise. Could he never bounceback? Sure. That was always a chance. Even if he had stayed healthy, he might not have made it. But for a Jake Burger, it is worth a shot at a return to prior form. It is the type of shot a team with no talent in the system should be taking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 3 hours ago, Chisoxmb35 said: Sold high as in the amount of whining over trading Burger was NEVER justified (and that we sold at his peak value). The return would be even worse if we waited to trade him this year. Well, yea. No way Burger even returns a Jake Eder today. As I said weeks ago, it’s more likely that Burger is a DFA candidate in a couple years than a solid everyday regular. Maybe Eder will be too but worst case he looks like a cheap mlb lefty reliever for a few years. Upside is potentially even better than that. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 5 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Well, yea. No way Burger even returns a Jake Eder today. As I said weeks ago, it’s more likely that Burger is a DFA candidate in a couple years than a solid everyday regular. Maybe Eder will be too but worst case he looks like a cheap mlb lefty reliever for a few years. Upside is potentially even better than that. If burger was a stock the Sox sold him at the absolute peak. he will likely never put up a stretch of 2 months at a 850 OPS or higher again. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nardiwashere Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 3 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said: I can go with this. The problem is that he’s a few months from turning 26 and repeating AA. He needs to figure it out soon. He missed a season due to COVID and then had Tommy John. Its not like he's been playing in minors for 5 straight years. He'll be 25 the rest of the season. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 7 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said: He missed a season due to COVID and then had Tommy John. It’s not like he's been playing in minors for 5 straight years. He'll be 25 the rest of the season. Loss of development due to Covid and injury. Doesn’t change the fact that he’s not getting any younger and still needs time to develop apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nardiwashere Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 Just now, WhiteSox2023 said: Loss of development due to Covid and injury. Doesn’t change the fact that he’s not getting any younger and still needs time to develop apparently. Didn't you want Crochet to go back down to the minors this year? They were drafted in the same year. What's the difference in the big scheme of things if he's a year behind? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 17 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Well, yea. No way Burger even returns a Jake Eder today. As I said weeks ago, it’s more likely that Burger is a DFA candidate in a couple years than a solid everyday regular. Maybe Eder will be too but worst case he looks like a cheap mlb lefty reliever for a few years. Upside is potentially even better than that. Burger put up a .760 OPS in 2022. He put up an .827 OPS last year. But now that he has a .612 OPS in 69 at bats, he’s a DFA candidate in a couple years? What? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 2 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said: Didn't you want Crochet to go back down to the minors this year? They were drafted in the same year. What's the difference in the big scheme of things if he's a year behind? It's not a big deal at all. I've stopped wishcasting on super young pitching prospects. If anything it's a bonus he's already had TJS and hasn't had his MLB clock started. I think part of the problem with the Detroit rebuild and in part ours, was relying way too much on 23-26 year old pitchers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 2 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said: Didn't you want Crochet to go back down to the minors this year? They were drafted in the same year. What's the difference in the big scheme of things if he's a year behind? I think the Sox were way too aggressive with Crochet’s innings of work right from the start of this season. Not sure how that relates to Eder. You seem to be making the assumption that Eder will be ready for the majors in a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nardiwashere Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 (edited) 54 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: I think the Sox were way too aggressive with Crochet’s innings of work right from the start of this season. Not sure how that relates to Eder. You seem to be making the assumption that Eder will be ready for the majors in a year. Crochet relates to Eder because they were born within a year of each other, lost time to injury, and drafted in the same weird COVID year. You were cool with putting Crochet back in the minors but see it a red flag that Eder is still there. I do expect him to be up in the next year or so. Does anyone expect Eder to be making his MLB debut in 2027-28? Eventually he'll either make it up to the majors or he wont. They traded a 3B with an injury history who isn't a great fielder but was on fire offensively for a former highly regarded starting pitching prospect who had lost some value because he was coming back from TJ and a foot injury. If the centerpiece for a Luis Robert trade was Jake Eder, I wouldn't be happy. But it was for Jake Burger and he seems to be moving in the right direction. We'll see what happens. Edited May 9 by Nardiwashere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 I would say it still doesn't make much sense that we traded Burger. And the main way it could have made sense was if we realized we were getting a steal, which we clearly weren't. I hope Eder turns out okay, but it looks like his stuff immediately regressed and he started flirting with the yips. We're slicing and dicing his in-season splits in May just to get his ERA under 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 6 minutes ago, Jake said: I would say it still doesn't make much sense that we traded Burger. And the main way it could have made sense was if we realized we were getting a steal, which we clearly weren't. I hope Eder turns out okay, but it looks like his stuff immediately regressed and he started flirting with the yips. We're slicing and dicing his in-season splits in May just to get his ERA under 5. Trading Burger was the right call, you can argue about the return that's fair but there is just nowhere for this guy to play here right now. 3B, DH, and 1B are all occupied with people who can't be traded and can't be unloaded until 2025. For a team in the midst of a 100 loss season followed by a front office overhaul and a rebuild, it just made way more sense to trade him since he was one of the few assets we had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 On 5/6/2024 at 10:48 AM, southsider2k5 said: RBIs are a direct product of the guys in front of you. If Burger was on the Sox he would not have 15 RBI. Such a weird thing to say. In this alternate universe where Burger is still on the Sox everything is the same except somehow Burger is still on the Sox. It makes no sense. He wouldn't be facing the same pitchers he is with the Sox that he has with the Marlins. Maybe he'd be having a better year.Maybe worse. Maybe he doesn't miss as many games, maybe he misses more. You cannot magically put someone somewhere in a timeline that assumes all other things stay the same . But hey you created that universe and twisted it accordingly. Maybe in my universe hes Mike Schmidt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 2 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Burger put up a .760 OPS in 2022. He put up an .827 OPS last year. But now that he has a .612 OPS in 69 at bats, he’s a DFA candidate in a couple years? What? Teams, and especially teams like the marlins, generally don’t pay 30 year old DHs that are average hitters much more than league minimum. So yes, I believe he will be a DFA candidate in 2-3 years or perhaps even sooner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 19 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Teams, and especially teams like the marlins, generally don’t pay 30 year old DHs that are average hitters much more than league minimum. So yes, I believe he will be a DFA candidate in 2-3 years or perhaps even sooner. Sounds like the perfect acquisition for the Sox down the road, with a bonus Eder DFA to make room on the 40-man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Such a weird thing to say. In this alternate universe where Burger is still on the Sox everything is the same except somehow Burger is still on the Sox. It makes no sense. He wouldn't be facing the same pitchers he is with the Sox that he has with the Marlins. Maybe he'd be having a better year.Maybe worse. Maybe he doesn't miss as many games, maybe he misses more. You cannot magically put someone somewhere in a timeline that assumes all other things stay the same . But hey you created that universe and twisted it accordingly. Maybe in my universe hes Mike Schmidt. It isn't weird to say you need runners on base in front of you to have RBI opportunities and that the worst hitting team is baseball would prove fewer of those opportunities than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 From today's MLBTR chat with Steve Adams: KC Pain 1:25 Jake Burger, how legit was that half with the Marlins? Im looking at prior seasons and this seasons small sample and injury and a tad worried Steve Adams 1:29 He's not going to keep up the .350-.360 average on balls in play that got him to his '23 Marlins production, and he's not going to continue to struggle like he has this year with the BABIP pendulum swinging in the other direction. Burger's career numbers are basically what he is to me... a low- to league-average batting average with poor OBP skills, good pop and poor defense. He's a fine guy to have around when his cost is low, but I don't think he's someone teams are going to want to pay through his arb years as his salary escalates. I'm typically a "yeah, trade your pitching prospects because they all break" guy, but my initial reaction to that trade was still "I wouldn't have given up Jake Eder here" 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4OCS Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 On 5/9/2024 at 6:32 PM, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Teams, and especially teams like the marlins, generally don’t pay 30 year old DHs that are average hitters much more than league minimum. So yes, I believe he will be a DFA candidate in 2-3 years or perhaps even sooner. Burger’s OPS’s have been 117, 113 and 120 and he had hard hit numbers comparable to Ohtani last year. Sorry just not buying that he’s an average hitter. Sox obviously aren’t growing 30 HR type hitters on trees here. At any rate, I don’t agree with trading a productive major league player with control for a single B- type prospect. Should have at least got two Eder types if you were going to trade him 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 1 minute ago, 4OCS said: Burger’s OPS’s have been 117, 113 and 120 and he had hard hit numbers comparable to Ohtani last year. Sorry just not buying that he’s an average hitter. Sox obviously aren’t growing 30 HR type hitters on trees here. At any rate, I don’t agree with trading a productive major league player with control for a single B- type prospect. Should have at least got two Eder types if you were going to trade him Man Soxtalk loves them some Jake Burger. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 4 minutes ago, 4OCS said: Burger’s OPS’s have been 117, 113 and 120 and he had hard hit numbers comparable to Ohtani last year. Sorry just not buying that he’s an average hitter. Sox obviously aren’t growing 30 HR type hitters on trees here. At any rate, I don’t agree with trading a productive major league player with control for a single B- type prospect. Should have at least got two Eder types if you were going to trade him Productive? 2.2 fWAR in 858 career PA. Nicky López has been a more productive MLB player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 1 hour ago, WestEddy said: From today's MLBTR chat with Steve Adams: KC Pain 1:25 Jake Burger, how legit was that half with the Marlins? Im looking at prior seasons and this seasons small sample and injury and a tad worried Steve Adams 1:29 He's not going to keep up the .350-.360 average on balls in play that got him to his '23 Marlins production, and he's not going to continue to struggle like he has this year with the BABIP pendulum swinging in the other direction. Burger's career numbers are basically what he is to me... a low- to league-average batting average with poor OBP skills, good pop and poor defense. He's a fine guy to have around when his cost is low, but I don't think he's someone teams are going to want to pay through his arb years as his salary escalates. I'm typically a "yeah, trade your pitching prospects because they all break" guy, but my initial reaction to that trade was still "I wouldn't have given up Jake Eder here" Sounds like Steve agrees with my assessment from a month ago. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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